All Things COVID-19

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I'm glad the thread stays open. I'm not at all - AT ALL - against people getting vaccinated, I think everyone should be doing what they think is best for their health and every time someone gets vaccinated and weighs whatever they figure their covid risk is, against whatever they figure their side effect risk is, and opt for the vaccine, I think it's great and I am super happy for anyone who gets the shots and feels good about it.

But the big thing for me is that I think a place for discussion has to be kept open everywhere, because you never know when the official line on something will turn out to be wrong. And if you don't allow discussion of something, it's way harder to figure out when that's happening.

The lab leak hypothesis is a perfect example. It took a really long time for that to gain traction because it was getting scrubbed from sites and platforms all over the internet. That's a gigantic disservice because it may be true, and the people who dismissed it as a conspiracy theory were, in reality, conspiring (!) to prevent discussion of the possibility.

My genuine hope is that people like Robert Malone (who is one of a bunch of scientists who did groundbreaking research on the early applications of mRNA technology and who does have a legitimate claim to massive expertise in this field) are wrong and that there is nothing to worry about with this vaccine. But we won't really know for a while, and I hate the idea that the best thing to do is not let anyone talk about it.

I do think people should be civil to each other and I don't think people should align into "pro-vax" and "anti-vax" teams because I think EVERYONE should just be on the "think critically about each step that could be taken to eliminate covid" team, and that may result in a lot of vaccination and it may result in different drug trials and it may result in masking etc etc etc.

Personally, since I'm not vaccinated, I mask up inside everywhere I go because I don't want other people to pay the price (even theoretically, I'm pretty low risk to contract anything but epoxy lung) for my decision not to take this vaccine yet. You can have concerns about this vaccine without being "anti-vax" or "anti-science" or "anti-anything" really. I'm not anti-vax at all. I got vaccinated for something else last week. I have a bunch of vaccinations most people don't because of places I've gone. I'm pro-vaccine as a thing. In this specific case I'm adopting a bit of a wait-and-see approach. I don't give people a hard time about their decisions, even if they're the exact opposite of mine, and I don't see myself as part of a "team" that is trying to stop people from doing anything. I want everyone to be free to act in the manner they feel is most likely to secure their health. I don't think anyone can make those decisions well if we don't have free and open communication. That doesn't have to be on Sportfishing BC or anything, specifically, but I just like to be able to openly talk about any major thing we're all facing, wherever.
 
Well, I wasn't at much risk to begin with. I work from home in a small town where there have only been a couple of cases, and the risk could have been managed pretty easily through a bunch of different means. And since I wore a mask (against WHO and CDC reccomendations) when the numbers first began to peak here...you're also welcome for me saving you.

But I'll never accept the idea that any medical procedure should be forced on anyone, regardless of the collective risk. I can absolutely accept the idea that I would be excluded from some stuff; I have no problem with the idea that my choice comes with consequences. But I would never agree that other people should be able to do something to me, in order not to get something themselves. I'm sorry, but that's a fundamental principle I would just never agree with.
 
But I'll never accept the idea that any medical procedure should be forced on anyone, regardless of the collective risk. I can absolutely accept the idea that I would be excluded from some stuff; I have no problem with the idea that my choice comes with consequences. But I would never agree that other people should be able to do something to me, in order not to get something themselves. I'm sorry, but that's a fundamental principle I would just never agree with.
Who's forcing anything to anyone in this country??
 
Who's forcing anything to anyone in this country??
Right? Back to this same old circle jerk. Nobody’s forcing anybody to do anything. But it’d be a pretty lame conspiracy theory to say we have a choice to get vaccinated or not.
 
I’ll respect people’s choice. I have zero respect for the Tucker Carsons and Laura Ingrams and others on Fox who spread baseless ridiculous conspiracy theories, dragging politics into a public health issue spreading fear and doubt for no other reason than ratings and money. They are killing people plain and simple.
 
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41.5M doses administered in Canada of all types....

2222 adverse reactions (0.005% of all doses)

134 deaths were reported; however,

31 are still under investigation
56 of these deaths are unlikely linked to a COVID-19 vaccine
41 deaths could not be assessed due to insufficient information.
6 deaths followed a diagnosis of TTS
[1]

Even considering all 134 reported deaths as a worst case, your chance of dying from a Covid vaccine is .00032% or 1:310000 The actual number based on this is still lower yet.

For comparison, to really illustrate how the anti-vaxxers or hesitant do not comprehend risk or basic statistical analysis....

The odds of dying from a motor-vehicle crash in 2019 were 1 in 8,393 [2]

The odds of dying from heart disease is 1 in 6 [2]

The odds of dying from a lightening strike is 1 in 138,849 [2]

The odds of spontaneous death is 1 in 300,000 [3]

Odds of dying from covid is 3 in 100 or 1 in 33.33 globally.

[1] COVID-19 vaccine safety: Weekly report on side effects following immunization - Canada.ca

[2] Odds of Dying - Injury Facts (nsc.org)

[3] Sudden Cardiac Death (SCD): Symptoms, Causes (clevelandclinic.org)

Who are the ones living in fear really?
 
41.5M doses administered in Canada of all types....

2222 adverse reactions (0.005% of all doses)

134 deaths were reported; however,

31 are still under investigation
56 of these deaths are unlikely linked to a COVID-19 vaccine
41 deaths could not be assessed due to insufficient information.
6 deaths followed a diagnosis of TTS
[1]

Even considering all 134 reported deaths as a worst case, your chance of dying from a Covid vaccine is .00032% or 1:310000 The actual number based on this is still lower yet.

For comparison, to really illustrate how the anti-vaxxers or hesitant do not comprehend risk or basic statistical analysis....

The odds of dying from a motor-vehicle crash in 2019 were 1 in 8,393 [2]

The odds of dying from heart disease is 1 in 6 [2]

The odds of dying from a lightening strike is 1 in 138,849 [2]

The odds of spontaneous death is 1 in 300,000 [3]

Odds of dying from covid is 3 in 100 or 1 in 33.33 globally.

[1] COVID-19 vaccine safety: Weekly report on side effects following immunization - Canada.ca

[2] Odds of Dying - Injury Facts (nsc.org)

[3] Sudden Cardiac Death (SCD): Symptoms, Causes (clevelandclinic.org)

Who are the ones living in fear really?
Hhaha no chance the odds are 1:33 of dying from covid. Nice stat. There would be a lot more deaths if that was the case.
 
Hhaha no chance the odds are 1:33 of dying from covid. Nice stat. There would be a lot more deaths if that was the case.

That is the rate of deaths among those who become infected with the Virus, not an overall rate of death to the population as a whole.
It is accurate.

Nog
 
That is the rate of deaths among those who become infected with the Virus, not an overall rate of death to the population as a whole.
It is accurate.

Nog
That makes more sense. That’s some pretty key information for that stat. That’s not even close to your chances of dying from covid which is what you had said. And if you have contracted covid, It’s actually 2.14 per 100 cases but whose counting. That’s only over million of so deaths compared to if it was 3 deaths in 100 cases.
 

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Who's forcing anything to anyone in this country??
I don't know why I have to explain this every single time.

I am not saying anyone is being forced to do anything. I am saying I don't accept THE IDEA because I don't accept THE IDEA, and that I WOULD OPPOSE (hence the use of the phrase WOULD OPPOSE) the concept.

This conversation goes around in circles in part because people say stuff like "public safety demands that everyone who can get vaccinated needs to" and I say things like "I totally support anyone who wants to be vaccinated getting the vaccine and I think everyone who doesn't should be acting responsibly, i.e. wearing masks indoors etc, around everyone else... I just believe as a matter of principle in people having the freedom to choose for themselves what medical procedures they undergo" and someone always has a hard time getting their head around the fact that I'm making a principled argument for individual rights.

I am not claiming anyone is having a gun held to their head. I must have posted a hundred times in this thread alone. Do I seriously strike anyone here as a raving conspiracy theorist or someone who engages in bumper-sticker-level thought about this stuff? Jesus.


I AM JUST SAYING that I am always going to support the idea that, regardless of what anyone else thinks, that every person's bodily autonomy needs to be respected. In this thread, not that far back, somebody literally accelerated in two sentences from saying "yeah I'm a bit of a libertarian myself" right on through to "the government shouldn't let everyone breed" or something along those lines, I'm not going back to dig up the exact quote but that's pretty close. THAT is why I always make the point that while yes, I believe in public health and in science, that I don't agree with THE IDEA that people should be required to get vaccinated and anyone pretending there's nobody out there (or in here, for that matter) who thinks THAT IDEA is a good one is kidding themselves.

I guarantee there's a bunch of people in this country who think that you should have to get this vaccine and it shouldn't be up to you.

I don't agree, and I'm not apologizing for not agreeing. That's not the same thing as thinking people are getting loaded onto Pfizer-branded boxcars.


Is that clear enough?
 
Interesting result from this survey.

Half of vaccinated Canadians say they’re ‘unlikely’ to spend time around those who remain unvaccinated​

The vaccinated say it’s OK to ask about vaccination status, unvaccinated say it’s personal, not OK


July 20, 2021 – As Canada slips past the U.S., surpassing its southern neighbour on the overall rate of both first and second vaccination, new data from the Angus Reid Institute casts light on some of the new social dynamics likely to affect day to day interactions as this country begins to emerge into a new reality.

Among those who have received at least one dose of vaccine so far only half (53%) say they’re likely spend time around those who have not received their jabs. This, even after they are fully immunized themselves and have built up their immunity.

Then there are the mixed comfort levels around asking others about their relative vaccination status.

More than half of those who have received at least one dose of vaccine say it’s perfectly fine to ask someone about their vaccination status. Another three-in-ten say it depends, and are more comfortable asking family and friends, but less so strangers. Conversely, three-quarters of those who say they’ll eschew inoculation view being asked about one’s vaccination status as inappropriate.

Way more views that Canadian have about vaccines, vaccine passports and such, also broken down by province.
https://angusreid.org/covid-vaccine-passport-july-2021/
 
Wow these are some seriously good numbers on the effectiveness of the vaccines coming out of Alberta today.


  • Since Jan 1, 2021, 0.2% of people with one dose (5,217/2,800,197) were diagnosed with COVID-19 14 days after the first immunization date
  • Since Jan 1, 2021, 0% of people with two doses (631/2,263,438) were diagnosed with COVID-19 14 days after the second immunization date
  • 95.2% of cases (123,453/129,655) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date
  • 92.2% of hospitalized cases (5,202/5,640) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date
  • 86.8% of COVID-19 deaths (681/785) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date

More charts and data here:
https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes
 
That makes more sense. That’s some pretty key information for that stat. That’s not even close to your chances of dying from covid which is what you had said. And if you have contracted covid, It’s actually 2.14 per 100 cases but whose counting. That’s only over million of so deaths compared to if it was 3 deaths in 100 cases.

You are in error, but thanks for proving my point regarding statistics & data comprehension.

The accepted standard among UNVACCINATED (before any vaccines were utilized) was a 97% Recovery Rate.
Both sides of the discussion still readily use that number on a daily basis.
Translates to a 3 % Mortality Rate = 3 out of 100 or 1 in 33.33.

The numbers you are attempting to employ include any and all that received a single dose or a double dose of the vaccine yet still managed to be infected.
Apples to Oranges. In your camp, I'd be looking at that distinction rather hard.
Yes, we are discussing over a million deaths - prevented.
Which should indicate to most that the vaccines are actually doing their jobs in preventing serious illness, hospitalizations, and yes, death.

Nice try though...

Nog
 
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