SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Do you have a link to this info? Or just speculation?
West Coast Fishing Guide Association Meeting
- Thread starter IronNoggin
- Start date
Do you have a link to this info? Or just speculation?
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Another reason why I think the 1-1 is a stupid idea is that I know for the majority of groups I'd be taking out, if they could only catch one halibut, we wouldn't be drifting for chickens anymore, almost every group I'm sure if they could only catch one halibut I'd be anchoring up and wouldn't be leaving till the boat was full of 40-80lbers (equivalent of 2 chickens)...the EXACT biomass the iphc is trying to protect...STUPID!!!
searun
Well-Known Member
We have a paper copy of 2011 catch data. I haven't needed to go search DFO's website for the info but it is probably there if you can weed thru it.
Agree, 1 and 1 isnt the best option, it is an option however if we are looking for a way to keep the fishery open. I think best option is 1 and 2 with slot limit as it allows rec anglers to have more choices. Guys who have their big one can go fish the chicken ranches for the small guy on day 2 of their trip. So this would take pressure off the bigger fish as guys would stay away from areas they know have predominantly large fish...or at least I would hope they would exercise a little discretion.
Agree, 1 and 1 isnt the best option, it is an option however if we are looking for a way to keep the fishery open. I think best option is 1 and 2 with slot limit as it allows rec anglers to have more choices. Guys who have their big one can go fish the chicken ranches for the small guy on day 2 of their trip. So this would take pressure off the bigger fish as guys would stay away from areas they know have predominantly large fish...or at least I would hope they would exercise a little discretion.
UkeeDreamin
Well-Known Member
Sorry Searun, saying our "only option" is to make this season work over and over again like a broken record doesn't make it fact. Many on here have stated unequivocally that they'd rather keep things as they are for this one single season and then raise hell in protest when it inevitably shuts down early, clearly not achieving the predictable and fair fishery the Minister announced had been resolved. A lot of very good facts, logic and arguments have been expressed very clearly on why that is a much more prudent and less risky approach for the long haul and yet you and others espousing the "gotta make this year work" mantra continue to ignore them.
I appreciate that you're just trying to sell a behind the scenes scheme cooked up by the G/O's to the rest of us but, if you haven't figured this out by now, continuing to rub it in our faces after being told many, many times we don't like it and we aren't buying it is basically just rubbing salt in a wound. If you were looking for a recipe on how to **** off a good proportion of the rec group and stir up thoughts of a rec split, I think you've found it.
I'm still hopeful that folks will wake up and realize our strength is in our numbers and diversity and thus sticking together is the best route. But that means openness, inclusion and solutions that work for all - and that doesn't mean a solution schemed up by a few and spun as being done for the good of everyone. Stay on that road and I have the bad feeling that we're all gonna be sorry at the end of this!
I appreciate that you're just trying to sell a behind the scenes scheme cooked up by the G/O's to the rest of us but, if you haven't figured this out by now, continuing to rub it in our faces after being told many, many times we don't like it and we aren't buying it is basically just rubbing salt in a wound. If you were looking for a recipe on how to **** off a good proportion of the rec group and stir up thoughts of a rec split, I think you've found it.
I'm still hopeful that folks will wake up and realize our strength is in our numbers and diversity and thus sticking together is the best route. But that means openness, inclusion and solutions that work for all - and that doesn't mean a solution schemed up by a few and spun as being done for the good of everyone. Stay on that road and I have the bad feeling that we're all gonna be sorry at the end of this!
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
X2 I agree. We need to NOT try to make the best of a bad situation. We need to keep on fighting for a better solution and we all need to be united in this as there is more strength in numbers!
Striper Sniper
Well-Known Member
I suspect it will be occuring much more going forward..................... Doesn't look like requesting urgent attenance to a 'members only' private function on a 'public forum' was a very good idea............and then proposing changes that would affect BOTH the rec and G&O.............. Just sayin
SS
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
You AIN'T alone in that sentiment!! Methinks the action is likely poised to break loose on the Stamp soon my Friend, and as always, the door is open!
OMG! You're reading FAR to much into the conspiracy theory Buddy! The meeting was set originally late Last YEAR! If you have an issue with believing my word on that, I'll show you the related Emails next time you stop by...
In retrospect it wasn't perhaps the most brilliant idea to post here requesting as many of our Membership could attend do so. My idea as we were having a bit of a tough time reaching a handful of those folks. My Error. Won't happen again.
On the other hand posting about what was discussed was not an error IMHO. We were informed that our collective opinion would be welcomed at this juncture. We discussed the issues at length, and we did so in Good Faith (whether you or anyone else wants to disbelieve that and stick with the wild conspiracy theories or not, this WAS what happened). Faced with a series of three options (shut down early, go to 1 & 2 with a slot, or 1 & 1) we felt that the second was the lesser of the evils for All concerned. It wasn't by any means meant as a "blind side". Our opinion as guides was solicited. We answered with what we honestly perceived to be the least painful option for all concerned. And then almost immediately several from that group posted in this regard here in order to maintain transparency and to inform all of our opinion of how to make the best out of a damn difficult situation. Whether you agree or not with the direction taken, you have to understand we did so thinking of everyone in the fishery, and made efforts as quickly as possible to let everyone know just what those thoughts were.
And yes, most were Royally Pissed at the thought of having to entertain any such considerations. Tables were not flipped, but they may as well have been. NO-ONE was happy to have to wade through these matters.
Our opinion was very much based on the sharing ideal. We of course took well into consideration just how that opinion might effect everyone else involved. And although it was more than a little stomach churning to be faced with what we were, we honestly believed the second option would be the least onerous of the lot in front of us, for everyone concerned.
I hear what you are saying. That is one of the many things we struggled with. And many share that same concern. The whole bloody thing is a mess.
This particular Association is made up of guides - almost all small time owner/operators or Hired Guns. That is the nature of the organization. Our meeting was already scheduled. We were notified our opinion on the matter was being welcomed. We answered in our capacity as guides. In that particular setting, we honestly believed we answered not only in that capacity, but with the concerns of the other anglers foremost in mind. There was no intent to exclude the general angling population, we simply answered the call as the situation presented itself to our organization.
The avenue to express your opinion as a Recreational Angler has always existed, and continues today. The various SFAC's direct concerns up to the SFAB itself. And the latter will take into consideration those same concerns when they receive them. Again, we were asked to form an opinion from within our group. We did so with what we thought might present the least painful option for everyone involved.
I am overly tired of being labeled here for providing my opinion regarding what I thought personally might work for most under this year's sad situation. I, and everyone else in that room were thinking of everyone involved, really. I am saddened that this has created the divisiveness it has, and hope we can strive to overcome that.
I am off the board for now. Running down to Vic to meet with the Ripper. Lots to think about alright, on all ends...
Back when I am able...
Cheers,
Nog
Derby
Crew Member
An excellent organization is the BC wildlife Federation.....They have done a pile of great work representing tin boat fishers thru out the Halibut process and will continue to do so...
Another good one, Courtney Rod & Gun and many more Rod & Gun clubs thru out your local neighbour hoods. If you are not a Member of a Rod & Gun Club which are associated the the BC wildlife federation..... it's time to become a member
Another good one, Courtney Rod & Gun and many more Rod & Gun clubs thru out your local neighbour hoods. If you are not a Member of a Rod & Gun Club which are associated the the BC wildlife federation..... it's time to become a member
Aces
Well-Known Member
No, it's just easier to sit at home on their computer and ***** about everything instead of getting involved in the process.
Looks like I'm screwed, just found out I can take my 3 week holidays this summer, but they have to be after the MIDDLE of Aug., so any of the other guy's with kids can have their holidays with them.
It's a great family orientated company to work for, but my youngest is now in her 20s!!!
It's a great family orientated company to work for, but my youngest is now in her 20s!!!
GLG
Well-Known Member
Dang I wish you didn't post that.
Wonder how many more of the guys here will be in your shoes?
Makes me want to rethink bringing the wife.
GLG
lorneparker1
Banned
I am a memeber of the courtenay f and g and campbell river F and G. Although i wouldnt say I am "heavily involved" I have sat in on conservation committee meetings, as well as done quite a bit of volunteer work on the trent. I also attended and voted at the last SFAB meeting, and was asked if i would consider possibly joining the council. Its funny you mention those groups and thier support of the tin boat guy. IMO thus far they have represented us well. Its through one of these clubs i was notified of what was going on. No one that i have talked to in either place was happy about it.
Heres another to pose the question i have been trying to get answered for over a week (how is a 1 and 1 doing anything for the long term)
How do you think your business model is going to look if the 1 to 1 is implemented and becomes the status quo next year?
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SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Exactly my thoughts lorne...think DFO would just put the 1-1 in "this year?" Get a grip...
Derby
Crew Member
Answer to #1-perhaps talk to BC Wildlife federation....to hard to explain unless you are sitting down and the right people can show you... It has been explain a couple time here and its hard to get it across just right. 
I'm not the guy to explain it.
What you don't under stand is this is not Polictical issue anymore (Ottawa just doesn't care anymore) but it is data driven now...which mean as soon as we are within a ounce of our quota, we will be closed...DFO will manage us to our quota this year...no overages
The only aim here to see if we can stretch the fish out so we all can enjoy access... If and I mean if we have too.....
I personal don't want this either and we might not have to either ... i don't guide and fish personally only ( Friends and family) but if given a choice,which would be later in the season, to be able to retain one instead of none...one is better then none? Is it not?
This is not a forever road. This is our 15% in a low abundance year left turn in the road.. We do have agreement of 2 poss 3 in a higher abundance year...
What busines model would you be talking about? Tackle buss..? The halibut part has been shot to hell for 4 years.... It is what it is...
I'm not the guy to explain it.What you don't under stand is this is not Polictical issue anymore (Ottawa just doesn't care anymore) but it is data driven now...which mean as soon as we are within a ounce of our quota, we will be closed...DFO will manage us to our quota this year...no overages
The only aim here to see if we can stretch the fish out so we all can enjoy access... If and I mean if we have too.....
I personal don't want this either and we might not have to either ... i don't guide and fish personally only ( Friends and family) but if given a choice,which would be later in the season, to be able to retain one instead of none...one is better then none? Is it not?
This is not a forever road. This is our 15% in a low abundance year left turn in the road.. We do have agreement of 2 poss 3 in a higher abundance year...
What busines model would you be talking about? Tackle buss..? The halibut part has been shot to hell for 4 years.... It is what it is...
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hooktender68
Well-Known Member
Shut down the entire rec fishery for halibut effective imediatly. We will again realize we are all on the same playing field. No more squabling, butting heads No buying Quota etc. carry the unused/entire TAC over to next year, and monitor the numbers closer in the future to ensure we dont go into the overdraft for another straight year in a row. Similar to the reset button that was hit in the big problem mackeral years for Chinnok, complete closure. Then monitor our new 15% of the Total annual alowable catch a little better, rather than going into future numbers. When the rec sector can handle thier alotted piece of the pie without going over, it will be good to go. In the meantime, as a undived unified voice, continue to write letters and raise awareness regarding the whole issue of where the other %85 of the tac is and how it got there in the first place. That, to me is the issue here that people/we have gotten away from, and in turn have become divided in our stand. People buy canadian saltwater fishing licences, that entitles them to harvest all legal species that it says in the synopsis. I think it is un fair for the loads of people who cant get here to catch a halibut before it closes. If people think that the guides are for them selves and money only. SHUT IT DOWN! this is stupid how everyone is babling on arguing back and forth, **** give it a break. Put even an eighth of the energy back into what we did last year with all the letters and meetings, do you think that did not work at all ? We got to fish into Sept! after the long weekend for F-sakes allowing all of us to end the long weeken despite the rec sector had gone over our tac again. There is NO single answer that can have everybody be happy. Lets shut it down and be all on the same page. You want a halibut ? poach it in a complet closure ! see how many people stand behind you, see how loud your voice would be.
My 2 bits
My 2 bits
searun
Well-Known Member
"Heres another to pose the question i have been trying to get answered for over a week (how is a 1 and 1 doing anything for the long term)"
The notion of using the current angling regulations (1 and 2 with slot limit et al) is a SHORT TERM (ie. this season) solution. A long term solution would be to look at future changes to the ITQ system as an example. There are lots of longer term solutions. We better get used to ITQ's, we have been running under a version them for years now, you just haven't realized it. For instance, the sockeye fishery in Port Alberni is managed under an Quota Allocation system. There is a quota the sporties are allocated, and when we reach that we are off the water. Similarly, the daily and possession limits are arrived at by examining the TAC and calculating how fast we will catch it. If you don't believe me, take a look at the sockeye management strategy and allocation table...no matter how big the run gets, we are capped at 90,000 fish - rest are allocated to......you guessed it.
There's your answer.
As for next year, same process. The catch limits will be set based on our allocation and how fast we are likely to catch those fish. Just because we go to a slot limit this year for instance, doesn't mean that regulation will be required to get us to our quota by the end of the season. Having said that, next year's biomass is expected to be similar, and thereafter it starts improving. Simple math, no rocket surgery needed.
Perhaps it would be best if we sat down over a few beers to review the history of this fishery and how the catch limits have been set, fish counted etc. This ain't getting us any closer.
And for the record, everything Nog posted about the Association is true. He accurately captured the sentiments in the room and our motivation for finding a reasonable way to try to get a fishery that ran most of the summer. NO ONE in that room is happy with the current situation. There isn't a person I know that supports the ITQ. We simply tried to find a short term solution for this season, while we work on longer term solutions for the future.
We think our first choice is the way to go. Our members voted unanimously to support this.
We have been open and honest about what we are doing and why - I guess in retrospect we should have just clammed up and gone underground - it would be a lot less painful.
The notion of using the current angling regulations (1 and 2 with slot limit et al) is a SHORT TERM (ie. this season) solution. A long term solution would be to look at future changes to the ITQ system as an example. There are lots of longer term solutions. We better get used to ITQ's, we have been running under a version them for years now, you just haven't realized it. For instance, the sockeye fishery in Port Alberni is managed under an Quota Allocation system. There is a quota the sporties are allocated, and when we reach that we are off the water. Similarly, the daily and possession limits are arrived at by examining the TAC and calculating how fast we will catch it. If you don't believe me, take a look at the sockeye management strategy and allocation table...no matter how big the run gets, we are capped at 90,000 fish - rest are allocated to......you guessed it.
There's your answer.
As for next year, same process. The catch limits will be set based on our allocation and how fast we are likely to catch those fish. Just because we go to a slot limit this year for instance, doesn't mean that regulation will be required to get us to our quota by the end of the season. Having said that, next year's biomass is expected to be similar, and thereafter it starts improving. Simple math, no rocket surgery needed.
Perhaps it would be best if we sat down over a few beers to review the history of this fishery and how the catch limits have been set, fish counted etc. This ain't getting us any closer.
And for the record, everything Nog posted about the Association is true. He accurately captured the sentiments in the room and our motivation for finding a reasonable way to try to get a fishery that ran most of the summer. NO ONE in that room is happy with the current situation. There isn't a person I know that supports the ITQ. We simply tried to find a short term solution for this season, while we work on longer term solutions for the future.
We think our first choice is the way to go. Our members voted unanimously to support this.
We have been open and honest about what we are doing and why - I guess in retrospect we should have just clammed up and gone underground - it would be a lot less painful.
hooktender68
Well-Known Member
The whole system is absolutly flawed. A 1 and 1 ? I, like most others I would assume, would want to get the most bang for your buck. The hali fishers who really know what there doing will hammer the hammers ! Go for the pounds. The arguments opionions and ideas go on and on. Like I said no one will be happy. The whole system needs to go under review and be redone, from start to finish. I still say shut it down. become one voice again instead of the babling divided many. Poach some halibut as a canadian Rec angling after it closes (after none have been caught) go to court and dispute your ticket.
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