The real truth on SRKW

[fish brain]

Thanks AA will do that.

I'm with Ziggy on this. I want to be invloved, I ask for links or information. I get nothing. Go to the site agentaqua posted, the last meeting was in April 2016, go to the South Coast Local Sport Fishing Advisory Committees link at the bottom of the page. It stays on the same page, so no useful information there. The SFI at least has some useful links on their issues page http://sportfishing.bc.ca/issues/ Yet they seem to want to remain quiet, ask us to do our research and write a letter. Nothing has been said about the canceling of the Port Renfrew net pen. Numerous calls have been made for them to provide vociferous guidance on the Summer and now proposed SRKW refuge closures, yet they seem reluctant.
It's no wonder people are running in circles fighting amongst themselves. There is no clear leadership. My first instinct is to start a group to take on this roll, but I know it will just create more confusion with the politicians. We need the SFI to take a firm and active lead. Government at all levels need to know where we stand loud and clear, because if we don't act now we will be steamrolled by the NGO's
Please forgive me if this comes off as a rant, but I am becoming quite frustrated.

 

[OldBlackDog]

https://vancouversun.com/news/local...extinction-of-southern-resident-killer-whales

 

[fish brain]

https://vancouversun.com/news/local...extinction-of-southern-resident-killer-whales

From the article
"
“Since the death of three whales, including J50, we have upped our ask,” said Misty MacDuffee, a biologist for Raincoast. “Now we want the closure of all marine-based commercial and sport chinook fisheries.”

The groups are also calling for a full ban on whale watching for the southern residents."

It's time for us to stop bickering on forums and unite or we will get burried

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Emailed the author asking why no one from SFI was contacted, and gave him the www.srkw.org website to continue his education on SRKW's.

 

[searun]

Everyone on here can do their part and get involved by taking the time to write a well researched professional response to the SARA team regarding the proposed Critical Habitat. There is much more in the works to back up everyone’s efforts

 

[fish brain]

Everyone on here can do their part and get involved by taking the time to write a well researched professional response to the SARA team regarding the proposed Critical Habitat. There is much more in the works to back up everyone’s efforts

Writing letters and closed door meetings are no longer enough, we are facing a propaganda machine that will bury us if we don't start to push back hard.

 

[DC Reid]

Here is my response on the global aspect of SRKW. There are lots of related subjects that are not being discussed by DFO in its rush to 'critical habitat' on Swiftsure, La Perouse. You might like to read it as I have put a lot of references that you might like to have at your fingertips when making a response: https://fishfarmnews.blogspot.com/2018/10/lets-take-global-look-at-srkw-problem.html.

 

[ziggy]

Here is my response on the global aspect of SRKW. There are lots of related subjects that are not being discussed by DFO in its rush to 'critical habitat' on Swiftsure, La Perouse. You might like to read it as I have put a lot of references that you might like to have at your fingertips when making a response: https://fishfarmnews.blogspot.com/2018/10/lets-take-global-look-at-srkw-problem.html.

Good article. From personal experience I have tried to engage Adam Olsen on this issue several times and have never received a response. I did receive one from Elizabeth May and the Fisheries Minister, but my MLA is MIA

 

[fish brain]

Good article. From personal experience I have tried to engage Adam Olsen on this issue several times and have never received a response. I did receive one from Elizabeth May and the Fisheries Minister, but my MLA is MIA

Same here. Except I contacted Sonia Furstenau, Allister, MacGregor, LeBlanc, and Trudeau as well as Olsen and May. Only one I heard back from was MacGregor

 

[california]

Same here. Except I contacted Sonia Furstenau, Allister, MacGregor, LeBlanc, and Trudeau as well as Olsen and May. Only one I heard back from was MacGregor

Are you surprised at that? All of Vancouver Island is represented by the NDP, who are most closely aligned with the ENGOs. The Island almost always votes NDP, and Elizabeth May representing the Gulf islands is the ENGO representative in Ottawa. The next election is going to mainly be fought in Ontario. Maritimes are solidly liberal, Liberals will likely pick up a few seats in Quebec as Scheer and Singh are very unpopular there. Liberals will probably lose a few seats in the west outside BC. So to get to 170 the liberals need to hang on to at least half of their BC seats, meaning only the lower mainland matters to them. Otherwise its all about southern Ontario for both parties. All the average Ontario voter knows is that they like whales, they heard the BC ones are in trouble, so something should be done. When they hear something is (doesn't really matter the details) , that box is checked and they can move on to Ontario-centric issues to decide who to vote for. The liberal moves on SRKW are about appeasing center and center-left urban and suburban Vancouver voters, and not doing anything to annoy Southern Ontario voters. The Conservatives are also relying on those center votes to win lower mainland seats. The liberals want to paint the conservatives as uncaring of environmental issues as they resonate with the swing voters in the center.

the SRKW.org messages that there isn't really any issue with the whales, and if there is, the solution is to wipe out the seals is not one that's going to be helpful to very many politicians who want to get elected in the lower mainland. SRKW.org may play well on this forum, but not so much outside it.

 

[fish brain]

Are you surprised at that? All of Vancouver Island is represented by the NDP, who are most closely aligned with the ENGOs. The Island almost always votes NDP, and Elizabeth May representing the Gulf islands is the ENGO representative in Ottawa. The next election is going to mainly be fought in Ontario. Maritimes are solidly liberal, Liberals will likely pick up a few seats in Quebec as Scheer and Singh are very unpopular there. Liberals will probably lose a few seats in the west outside BC. So to get to 170 the liberals need to hang on to at least half of their BC seats, meaning only the lower mainland matters to them. Otherwise its all about southern Ontario for both parties. All the average Ontario voter knows is that they like whales, they heard the BC ones are in trouble, so something should be done. When they hear something is (doesn't really matter the details) , that box is checked and they can move on to Ontario-centric issues to decide who to vote for. The liberal moves on SRKW are about appeasing center and center-left urban and suburban Vancouver voters, and not doing anything to annoy Southern Ontario voters. The Conservatives are also relying on those center votes to win lower mainland seats. The liberals want to paint the conservatives as uncaring of environmental issues as they resonate with the swing voters in the center.

the SRKW.org messages that there isn't really any issue with the whales, and if there is, the solution is to wipe out the seals is not one that's going to be helpful to very many politicians who want to get elected in the lower mainland. SRKW.org may play well on this forum, but not so much outside it.

I am not in favour of a seal cull. While there might be some short term benefits to having one, and it might be an important part of early recovery. There is plenty of evidence suggesting that removal of predators usually has unintended consequences throughout the food chain. I personally would like to see our efforts aimed at habitat restoration and stock rebuilding. Having said that if and when I see a plan from our leaders that includes a seal cull, I wont really fight it, because what we need right now is everyone swimming in the same direction. We can argue the semantics later.

 

[ziggy]

Are you surprised at that? All of Vancouver Island is represented by the NDP, who are most closely aligned with the ENGOs. The Island almost always votes NDP, and Elizabeth May representing the Gulf islands is the ENGO representative in Ottawa. The next election is going to mainly be fought in Ontario. Maritimes are solidly liberal, Liberals will likely pick up a few seats in Quebec as Scheer and Singh are very unpopular there. Liberals will probably lose a few seats in the west outside BC. So to get to 170 the liberals need to hang on to at least half of their BC seats, meaning only the lower mainland matters to them. Otherwise its all about southern Ontario for both parties. All the average Ontario voter knows is that they like whales, they heard the BC ones are in trouble, so something should be done. When they hear something is (doesn't really matter the details) , that box is checked and they can move on to Ontario-centric issues to decide who to vote for. The liberal moves on SRKW are about appeasing center and center-left urban and suburban Vancouver voters, and not doing anything to annoy Southern Ontario voters. The Conservatives are also relying on those center votes to win lower mainland seats. The liberals want to paint the conservatives as uncaring of environmental issues as they resonate with the swing voters in the center.

the SRKW.org messages that there isn't really any issue with the whales, and if there is, the solution is to wipe out the seals is not one that's going to be helpful to very many politicians who want to get elected in the lower mainland. SRKW.org may play well on this forum, but not so much outside it.

Not denying your synopsis of the big picture of Canadian politics( after all it’s the same each election), but you are missing one major component. Even if the Party wins the war, it does the individual no good who loses his or her individual election battle. All politicians want to get elected, people like May can represent the ENGO’s in Ottawa all she wants, but she still has to get there! How safe is her seat? How safe is the Fisheries Ministers seat? You can bet they are both doing the math! I’m not sure what success writing either of them will have, but I know,doing nothing is not an option! I’m not giving up.

 

[Rockfish]

I am not in favour of a seal cull. While there might be some short term benefits to having one, and it might be an important part of early recovery. There is plenty of evidence suggesting that removal of predators usually has unintended consequences throughout the food chain. I personally would like to see our efforts aimed at habitat restoration and stock rebuilding. Having said that if and when I see a plan from our leaders that includes a seal cull, I wont really fight it, because what we need right now is everyone swimming in the same direction. We can argue the semantics later.

This is an interesting quote; "There is plenty of evidence suggesting that the removal of predators usually has unintended consequences throughout the food chain".

How easy it is to forget that **** sapiens are also predators and as I understand it, for thousands of years on this coast were a predator of pinnipeds. however we have removed our species as pinniped predators. Is it such a bad idea to reassert that role which would benefit many species including humans and even the seals and sea lions. If we don't do it nature will eventually do it, likely through starvation, but in the process many other species will suffer including salmon and humans.

 

[fish brain]

This is an interesting quote; "There is plenty of evidence suggesting that the removal of predators usually has unintended consequences throughout the food chain".

How easy it is to forget that **** sapiens are also predators and as I understand it, for thousands of years on this coast were a predator of pinnipeds. however we have removed our species as pinniped predators. Is it such a bad idea to reassert that role which would benefit many species including humans and even the seals and sea lions. If we don't do it nature will eventually do it, likely through starvation, but in the process many other species will suffer including salmon and humans.

Good points Rockfish. My point is humans rarely get these kinds of things right. Removal of wolves from Yellowstone park is an extreme example. Some removal at least initially would certainly help with the ones that are targeting salmon fry. As I said I am not in favour, which is different from opposed in my mind.

 

[SpringVelocity]

We just posted the information at the ( open door ) meeting with DFO last week in Port Alberni and Tofino. Here is the Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/NanaimoSFAC/

 

[agentaqua]

This is an interesting quote; "There is plenty of evidence suggesting that the removal of predators usually has unintended consequences throughout the food chain".

How easy it is to forget that **** sapiens are also predators and as I understand it, for thousands of years on this coast were a predator of pinnipeds. however we have removed our species as pinniped predators. Is it such a bad idea to reassert that role which would benefit many species including humans and even the seals and sea lions. If we don't do it nature will eventually do it, likely through starvation, but in the process many other species will suffer including salmon and humans.

x2 Rockfish!

 

[agentaqua]

Good points Rockfish. My point is humans rarely get these kinds of things right. Removal of wolves from Yellowstone park is an extreme example. Some removal at least initially would certainly help with the ones that are targeting salmon fry. As I said I am not in favour, which is different from opposed in my mind.

yes, but... do we stop trying to get it right forever more? If we give-up trying - then shouldn't we give-up trying for the SRKW too - using the same logic?

 

[fish brain]

yes, but... do we stop trying to get it right forever more? If we give-up trying - then shouldn't we give-up trying for the SRKW too - using the same logic?

Fair enough. I am willing to be convinced on any topic, and as I mentioned earlier, it might be an important part of a strategy, even if I don't favour it. I just see so many easier wins to go after first. to name a few:
Net pens
Hatcheries
Reduced pressure on feed stocks such as herring
Stream rehabilitation
Estuary rehabilitation
Again, I am not married to my position, I just need to be convinced to change it

 

[agentaqua]

wrt the seal issue - there is considerable experience, data and science out there to support the perspective that some (not all) seals are having a large, disproportionate effect on already weakened/recovering stocks - esp coho and Chinook. Not advocating at all for a blind, blanket cull - just for the problem seals at the choke points...

 

[searun]

wrt the seal issue - there is considerable experience, data and science out there to support the perspective that some (not all) seals are having a large, disproportionate effect on already weakened/recovering stocks - esp coho and Chinook. Not advocating at all for a blind, blanket cull - just for the problem seals at the choke points...

I would completely agree with that. The science is clear thus far that some problem seals are contributing to significant out-migrant smolt (steelhead, chinook, coho) predation. The numbers are staggering.

The solutions are not at all clear however.

The US have tried many non-lethal methods - none tried thus far have worked consistently as the seals figure it out over time and return. Lethal methods appear to work on problem seals that develop the habit/skill targeting out-migrant smolts...but its not forever as others learn. The issue is they are apex predators who figure out quickly how to target food sources when traditional ones become scarce.

But I would say this, we can try all the traditional chinook recovery actions (hatcheries, habitat etc), and all we are doing is feeding and growing the seal problem further. Unless we address predation, none of the chinook abundance solutions will work effectively unless we transport them around the seals!

The other great unknown is what happens out on the high seas - research funding and program launch this winter is going to find out for the first time. Will be interesting research that we can follow on the web daily - they are going to report daily updates.