So...closed for retention also means closed to catch & release...

[Dan]

Wow, mind blown...thought I was well versed on the regs...learned something new today...

I was fishing at the breakwater this morning and was checked by DFO and was informed that I must cease targeting rockfish (rockcod, bass....whatever you wanna call them).
I was only doing catch & release but that is not allowed in areas where retention is closed, this applies for lingcod as well.

So...if a fish species is closed to retention then it also closed/illegal to target them for catch and release...even if you're no where near an RCA...

Any questions please contact Roy Osselton (DFO Fishery Officer, Conservation and Protection) 250-363-3252 email: roy.osselton@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

 

[sammyslabber]

...could of told dfo you were fishing for salmon & hali...maybe remind them about the metric tons of commie bycatch...

 

[eroyd]

News to me! My understanding was that there is a difference between "no fishing" and "non retention". I wonder if this DFO officer actually was correct? We certainly fish for freshwater species, under provincial regulation, that are non-retention.

 

[Sr SQ]

Me thinks you were vanboozeled……
Sturgeon are also a no retention fish…but 100s do it daily and thats ok?
Ethically however targeting a closed fish can really only result in some harm to the fish

 

[SpringVelocity]

Wow, mind blown...thought I was well versed on the regs...learned something new today...

I was fishing at the breakwater this morning and was checked by DFO and was informed that I must cease targeting rockfish (rockcod, bass....whatever you wanna call them).
I was only doing catch & release but that is not allowed in areas where retention is closed, this applies for lingcod as well.

So...if a fish species is closed to retention then it also closed/illegal to target them for catch and release...even if you're no where near an RCA...

Any questions please contact Roy Osselton (DFO Fishery Officer, Conservation and Protection) 250-363-3252 email: roy.osselton@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

That makes sense...But see how its confusing.. Here is the reg:


.Recreational fishers are reminded that fishing for lingcod and rockfish will
close as scheduled effective October 1, 2014 until further notice as follows:


Lingcod will close to fishing in the following Areas and Subareas:
12-1 to 12-13, 12-15 to 12-48,13 to 19, 20-5 to 20-7 and 29-5.

Note: Areas 28 and 29 (except Subarea 29-5) are already closed.


Rockfish (Rockfish and Yelloweye Rockfish in the aggregate) will close to
fishing in the following Areas and Subareas:
12 to 19, 20-5 to 20-7 and 29-5.

Note: Areas 28 and 29 (except Subarea 29-5) are already closed.


Its totally closed from this notice. Had DFO said non-retention that would mean catch and release at least that is how I see it...For example halibut closes end of year. Had they said in that notice there is non-retention of halibut..Technically you could go anchor and just catch and release.... I think honestly in the rockfish/ling fishery I would have to agree rock fish don't survive well in catch and release especially fishing deep water. In your case I would say mortality would be fair as you fishing very shallow... But the rule has to apply to all...

 

[fish4all]

...could of told dfo you were fishing for salmon & hali...maybe remind them about the metric tons of commie bycatch...

There is no bycatch in the commercial fishery anymore. You need to have quotas to cover off every fish you encounter and if it is a species that has a mortality rate less than 100% and you release it, due to a number of different rules that are in place, then you must cover the mortality with quota. Since integration every rockfish has to be kept as there is 100% mortality associated with all rockfish regardless of depth.

 

[finaddict]

There is no bycatch in the commercial fishery anymore. You need to have quotas to cover off every fish you encounter and if it is a species that has a mortality rate less than 100% and you release it, due to a number of different rules that are in place, then you must cover the mortality with quota. Since integration every rockfish has to be kept as there is 100% mortality associated with all rockfish regardless of depth.

That's right. By a mere swipe of a pen and change of the "rules" all by-catch is magically eliminated as if they were never there........

 

[fish4all]

That's right. By a mere swipe of a pen and change of the "rules" all by-catch is magically eliminated as if they were never there........

Actually it has been an entire shift of fishing practices. At one time commercial boats released what was once deemed as bycatch. Now it is called directed and non-directed CATCH. why so negative on progress??

 

[Peahead]

That makes sense...But see how its confusing.. Here is the reg:


.Recreational fishers are reminded that fishing for lingcod and rockfish will
close as scheduled effective October 1, 2014 until further notice as follows:


Lingcod will close to fishing in the following Areas and Subareas:
12-1 to 12-13, 12-15 to 12-48,13 to 19, 20-5 to 20-7 and 29-5.

Note: Areas 28 and 29 (except Subarea 29-5) are already closed.


Rockfish (Rockfish and Yelloweye Rockfish in the aggregate) will close to
fishing in the following Areas and Subareas:
12 to 19, 20-5 to 20-7 and 29-5.

Note: Areas 28 and 29 (except Subarea 29-5) are already closed.


Its totally closed from this notice. Had DFO said non-retention that would mean catch and release at least that is how I see it...For example halibut closes end of year. Had they said in that notice there is non-retention of halibut..Technically you could go anchor and just catch and release.... I think honestly in the rockfish/ling fishery I would have to agree rock fish don't survive well in catch and release especially fishing deep water. In your case I would say mortality would be fair as you fishing very shallow... But the rule has to apply to all...

The problem with this regulation as I see it is the grey area of what constitutes targeting a specific species so I think its not very effective. If other fish are legal in the area Lingcod/Rockfish are closed ( so not an RCA or other all fin fish closure area) in many cases it would be pretty tough to enforce or prove someone wasn't targeting another bottom dweller (or even Salmon as Sammyslabber points out) . While in some instances it could be obvious, in many not so. Similar methods used for Lingcod or Rockfish can be used for other species. So Sammyslabber is correct because you could have told the DFO officer you won't target Lingcod or Rockfish and continue fishing if you wanted to. If you caught a Lingcod in the lingcod closure while targeting other open bottom fish then releasing it as incidental should be perfectly legal as you weren't targeting it. The rule is about intention to target and again that's why that reg , as I see it, is not effective.

If you are getting Lingcod and Rockfish at closed times then I'd just move to another area to try and avoid them.

 

[trophywife]

if he had been fishing with barbs, he had better have been bottom-fishing. lol

 

[tincan]

IMO, there is no such thing at 'catch and release' fishing for rockfish / ling. As mentioned above the survival rate is very low for any 'released' rockfish so you are essentially killing a rockfish one way or another if you bring it to your boat. Yes, in very shallow water this my not be the case but for the vast majority of fish it will mean death. For a species that is decimated as much as it already is in the strait of georgia I think closures and RCA's are essential if we hope to bring back the many species of rockfish that are struggling. They area slow-maturing fish and need a lot of help if they are ever to re-populate and C&R of them will not help this cause. We have other sustainable fishing opportunities in BC that would be better options, again IMO.

 

[Dan]

...could of told dfo you were fishing for salmon & hali...maybe remind them about the metric tons of commie bycatch...

Best answer.

News to me! My understanding was that there is a difference between "no fishing" and "non retention". I wonder if this DFO officer actually was correct? We certainly fish for freshwater species, under provincial regulation, that are non-retention.

Well help me spread the word cause no retention means no targeting

That makes sense...But see how its confusing.. Here is the reg:


.Recreational fishers are reminded that fishing for lingcod and rockfish will
close as scheduled effective October 1, 2014 until further notice as follows:


Lingcod will close to fishing in the following Areas and Subareas:
12-1 to 12-13, 12-15 to 12-48,13 to 19, 20-5 to 20-7 and 29-5.

Note: Areas 28 and 29 (except Subarea 29-5) are already closed.


Rockfish (Rockfish and Yelloweye Rockfish in the aggregate) will close to
fishing in the following Areas and Subareas:
12 to 19, 20-5 to 20-7 and 29-5.

Note: Areas 28 and 29 (except Subarea 29-5) are already closed.


Its totally closed from this notice. Had DFO said non-retention that would mean catch and release at least that is how I see it...For example halibut closes end of year. Had they said in that notice there is non-retention of halibut..Technically you could go anchor and just catch and release.... I think honestly in the rockfish/ling fishery I would have to agree rock fish don't survive well in catch and release especially fishing deep water. In your case I would say mortality would be fair as you fishing very shallow... But the rule has to apply to all...

Thank you !

The problem with this regulation as I see it is the grey area of what constitutes targeting a specific species so I think its not very effective. If other fish are legal in the area Lingcod/Rockfish are closed ( so not an RCA or other all fin fish closure area) in many cases it would be pretty tough to enforce or prove someone wasn't targeting another bottom dweller (or even Salmon as Sammyslabber points out) . While in some instances it could be obvious, in many not so. Similar methods used for Lingcod or Rockfish can be used for other species. So Sammyslabber is correct because you could have told the DFO officer you won't target Lingcod or Rockfish and continue fishing if you wanted to. If you caught a Lingcod in the lingcod closure while targeting other open bottom fish then releasing it as incidental should be perfectly legal as you weren't targeting it. The rule is about intention to target and again that's why that reg , as I see it, is not effective.

If you are getting Lingcod and Rockfish at closed times then I'd just move to another area to try and avoid them.

Thank you ! ...although moving to another area is not always an option when you only fish from shore...

if he had been fishing with barbs, he had better have been bottom-fishing. lol

Ugh...facepalm... apparently I'm not yer average amateur... (6 months ago >) http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/showthread.php?28437-First-fishing-catch!&p=357844#post357844

 

[Peahead]

checked by DFO and was informed that I must cease targeting rockfish , this applies for lingcod as well.

I'd be curious to what the average fisheries officer would tell you if you suggested to him that while you are certainly following the regulation yourself by not targeting the closed Rockfish or Lingcod, that you hadn't quite figured out how this regulation can be explained to those closed fish so that they know to not bite my hook !! I hope he'd suggest nicely that it be best if you move spots if you are hooking incidental closed species even if you aren't targeting them.

I'll say it again; The Regulation is clearly not very effective IMO and the only thing keeping Rockfish from being hooked and Lingcod left alone to lay and protect their eggs is in an RCA or by the fisher taking the initiative to move to a different location if you start hooking the closed species.

And as Tincan mentions survival rates for catch and release on some species is poor. To respond to Sr SQ's comment on Sturgeon and why if this species is being allowed a catch and release.....why not Rockfish ? The answer is in Tincan's post - Survival rates after release. Apparently there was a Sturgeon illegally caught kept and lived in a refigerator for a coule/few days and survived to be released by DFO. They are a hardy fish.

 

[Califbill]

Just think of it as closed season. Here in California, if salmon is closed and Rock fish is open, you better not be ritrolling a hoochi and flasher and claiming you are targeting rockfish. As to releasing rockfish, the club I am associated with has helped finance studies in releasing rockfish. Use a desender and 80% survival rate. Couple different ones out there. I use the Shelton and keep an extra Rod rigged with the release and a heavy weight.
http://www.sheltonproducts.com About halfway down the page. california F&G even gives them away at times.

 

[Peahead]

Just think of it as closed season. Here in California, if salmon is closed and Rock fish is open, you better not be ritrolling a hoochi and flasher and claiming you are targeting rockfish. As to releasing rockfish, the club I am associated with has helped finance studies in releasing rockfish. Use a desender and 80% survival rate. Couple different ones out there. I use the Shelton and keep an extra Rod rigged with the release and a heavy weight.
http://www.sheltonproducts.com About halfway down the page. california F&G even gives them away at times.

Yes the descender tools are a good idea for sure (a few other threads from last summer on that topic on this forum) While I have one on my boat and relatively easy to use, I suspect a very small percentage of all boats fishing have them. If survival is at 80% using them 100% of the time, that's pretty good but if only a very small % of boats have them .....well you know the answer.

Not sure your suggestion "think of it as a closed season" adds much to the thread unless I misunderstand you ....because we already know Rockfish and Lingcod are "closed for the season". DFO's regulation closes the season for those 2 species of bottom fish for 6 months but keeps it open in the same areas for other species of bottom fish ( and salmon ) that can be caught using similar methods. In Vancouver there are many people that want to target these other species of bottom fish. The reg doesn't stop them. The reg also doesn't stop them from hooking and releasing incidental rockfish and lingcod. I would think it very difficult if not impossible in many cases to prove these people are targeting the 2 closed species.

Not very effective beyond a non-retention reg, I'd say.

 

[barrie]

califbill, sorry to hijack thread, do you use those Sheldon bait heads for salmon?

 

[Califbill]

Closed season to says you can not target a closed species. What do you fish for lings with? Here I use large jigs or very large swim baits, or pin on a SandDab. Regular rockfish, s small swim bait, or small diamond bar. Yes you hook a ling at times. But not consistantly. One time drifting the reefs off Santa Cruz, CA 4" swim bait. First drift through the hole, a 10# ling. 2nd drift, 18# California Halibut, 3rd drift a 12# ling. all in a 120 meter drift. But normally would not get lings consistantly on a small swim bait. So use gear targeted at the target species is my posit.
As to the salmon bait heads. Yes I do use them. Do catch fish. But being lazy, I normally fish a hoochie if krill fish, or a watermelon Apex 70% of the rest of the time. They are like a scotty bait rotator, but does a nicer, tighter spin. Was developed by one of our better salmon fishing guys who seems to have retired due to health problems. Use to have a place at Tahsis. Bob Franko. There are some YouTube vids of him at Tahsis.

 

[Califbill]

http://youtu.be/EiZFghwVOyI
Link to the lady who we financed to do the studies.

From the Coastside Fishing Board:
Default Barotrauma Success at the PFMC!!!!
Today, Monday 8 April, the PFMC voted to provide a survivability credit to recreational fishermen who release our regulatory discards (Yelloweye, Canary, and Cowcod) back at depth using some type of recompression device. I just sent this note of congratulations to the guys that were here to testify today - including our own Jeff Richards, SAC's Ken Franke, GGFA's Bob Ingles, and others:

Guys - I wanted to THANK all of you for contributing to the positive outcome that we achieved today. Your testimony and support in the subcommittees and on the floor were key factors here this week - keep on carrying this project forward.

I wanted to let you all know that I am very pleased with today's outcome, even though I did not prevail on the two amendments that I argued for. What we started from, and ended up adopting, are good - very good. So although I tried to make it even better, we ended with something that we should all see as a real win. There will be more opportunity to improve it as we get more data, but that will give me something to work on as we go forward.

The important thing is that we have something to show for the years of work, and something to say to our recreational brothers when they ask us if it is ever going to happen. Today we can say that it did happen - we are going to get credit for releasing fish back at depth with low mortality.

I do believe that getting this part done is the easy part - science will eventually prevail here, even if slowly. The hard part is changing recreational fishing behavior, and that is where we must expand our effort. I was overwhelmed when OR reported that their folks have embraced this to the point that 50% of the fishermen report using these devices. That is such a great start, much higher than I expected, and is an indication that we are truly doing the right thing, and that the fishing community is really on-board. So we have a great base upon which to build, and we must seize the opportunity and bring the other 50% of the fishermen into the fold.

Great job guys. Thanks so much.
Dan Wolford


So maybe you can get credit for defenders and maybe get a bigger alottment.

Maybe should be a separate thread.

 

[Califbill]

Alena's doctoral dissertation link. Coastsidefishingclub club supplied a stipend for the study of barotrauma.
https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/...1957/14993/Pribyl dissertation.pdf?sequence=6

 

[Peahead]

Closed season to says you can not target a closed species. What do you fish for lings with? Here I use large jigs or very large swim baits, or pin on a SandDab. Regular rockfish, s small swim bait, or small diamond bar. Yes you hook a ling at times. But not consistantly. One time drifting the reefs off Santa Cruz, CA 4" swim bait. First drift through the hole, a 10# ling. 2nd drift, 18# California Halibut, 3rd drift a 12# ling. all in a 120 meter drift. But normally would not get lings consistantly on a small swim bait. So use gear targeted at the target species is my posit.
As to the salmon bait heads. Yes I do use them. Do catch fish. But being lazy, I normally fish a hoochie if krill fish, or a watermelon Apex 70% of the rest of the time. They are like a scotty bait rotator, but does a nicer, tighter spin. Was developed by one of our better salmon fishing guys who seems to have retired due to health problems. Use to have a place at Tahsis. Bob Franko. There are some YouTube vids of him at Tahsis.

Hey Bill of Calif, before I forget I must mention to you I got to know Bob Franko up at Tahsis and visited him at his trailer/cabin up at Tahsis several years back. What a character ! I hope he's ok . I knew the fellow who purchased the place from Bob. My buddy rented it for a while after Bob sold it. The 23' Parker "Fishing Machine" that Bob would use to run out to the Tuna out off Esperanza brings back memories (this long before most if not all local sporties started doing it) Bob was always full of great stories and interesting tips and ideas. He gave me a great video he hosted of fishing tuna off San Fran. shot many years ago now

Back to the thread topic: The start of this thread was about a fellow casting off Victoria's breakwater and being warned to stop targeting rockfish. The size or type of lure/bait being tossed off the breakwater likely would have absolutely nothing to do with the officers belief that rockfish and Lingcod were being specifically targeted. Again in these areas all bottom fish can be targeted similarly however I think I see you may be saying that in open deeper water in our stait here or an "offshore" fishery, if someone was using a huge Norwegian Jig or a spreader bar with a large bait ( and Halibut season happened to also be closed as it will be in January) then one could at that point say that they were likely targeting Yelloweye Rockfish, Lingcod or halibut specifically. That may be true but that is quite different than tossing small jigs/lures of the breakwater or targeting other bottom fish in many other shallow areas.