Stizzla
Crew Member
Definitely... who’s in?!
SFI-BC Message Re. DFO Fishing Closures & Reg Changes
- Thread starter Whole in the Water
- Start date
casper5280
Crew Member
I say we have a fishing derby in the Inner Harbour/Waterfront area. Boundaries are the Breakwater to Macaulay Point Park. Plug the Inner Harbour to all traffic( Coho, Floatplanes, and all marine traffic. Cruise ship traffic, Pilot Authority. Plug the whole area up.
SFI is not an organization only for guides, and the work they do is some of the best we have going on. I have been a member for 2 years, and am just a recreational angler...we need an organization with large numbers...think what they could do with 100,000 members if 1/2 the tidal water anglers;ers joined up?
Michael kirk
New Member
A couple of days ago there was a protest in downtown Victoria, and the police closed a couple of roads to facilitate it. Does anybody know if we have the legal ability to have a flotilla protest in the inner harbour? Thus shutting down all marine and air traffic, now that would be a message.
I like the idea of a previous poster suggested of having slow trolls in closed areas. We could show the ludicrously stupid rule of still allowing other user groups in the area, whilst shutting us out. Load up our rods and riggers as per normal, but without a hook attached, therefore we are not fishing, just practicing.
I like the idea of a previous poster suggested of having slow trolls in closed areas. We could show the ludicrously stupid rule of still allowing other user groups in the area, whilst shutting us out. Load up our rods and riggers as per normal, but without a hook attached, therefore we are not fishing, just practicing.
@Stizzla...you asked for my thoughts on this, so here they are.
Given the fact that the sport fishing sector, and to some extent, the commercial fleet have taken the brunt of these restrictions it is understandable that everyone is angry, frustrated and ready to do almost anything to get the attention of DFO and the Ministry. There has been a wide range of suggestions in numerous threads in the forum, so the level of frustration is unprecedented. Should people be angry and frustrated-yes, should they push for a cohesive message-yes, should we start a social media campaign-yes, should we be prepared to get off our wallets and our butts to help raise funds to support the cause-yes, should we, in our state of anger and frustration, start protests, blockades and generally be confrontational to gain attention-IMO no.
Today's protests are much more subtle, well planned and executed by a constant delivery of messages that help educate a much broader audience than the old style, wrap yourself around a tree and let the news media tell your story days. It was pointed out by Profisher that, in today's world, either you control your message or somebody else will. This is so true. Given the way mainstream media works, the minute an armada of boats shows up in protest, the reporter is going to identify the person who looks the most pissed off and they are going to stick a microphone and a camera in their face and let him or her rant on, and hope that it goes instantly viral. They are also going to highlight the most expensive 2 or 3 boats from the armada to show what the average sport fishing vessel looks like and the world at large is going to have yet another reason to perceive us as spoiled, somewhat more affluent than the average person whiners, who are only interested in fishing until the last Salmon is dead. Why...because facts don't sell, stories do. Will they mention all the hard work that countless fishermen put in to Salmon enhancement, or the many hours people spend sitting on volunteer boards, or point out the work that happens at hatchery facilities that could actually make a difference to the Killer Whales? Of course not..and if they did it would likely be with a slant toward the selfish motivation of creating more fishing opportunities for ourselves.
Again, a few members have preached patience while a cohesive plan can be worked out to attack the falsehoods that have been perpetuated against the sport fishing community for far too long. I have had some preliminary conversations, with people who know more than I do regarding the battles that have been ongoing for many years, about how our platform can best be used to help spread the word and assist in organizing the resources needed to push for change. These plans will take time to formulate and input will come from a number of places, but if we don't have a cohesive plan that is carried out with discipline and purpose, only chaos and further divisiveness will occur, which of course plays right into the hands of those who would love to see us off the water forever.
While I understand everyone's feeling of wanting to do something immediately to counter the injustice that has been brought upon our community, I would ask for patience and a willingness to be ready to help, in anyway possible, when the time comes to move forward. As Rollie pointed out, these things don't happen overnight, but the mere fact that so many of you are ready to pitch in is encouraging. Don't let your anger and frustration disappear, just let it simmer for the time being.
Brian
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fish brain
Crew Member
How about some sort of communication from them? when do they want our input? There was a meeting about the killer whale closure almost everyone knew was coming except for otter point, then a panic letter writing campaign . For this which affects almost everyone crickets. This was no overnight issue. There have been rumors about something like this for a year. I was told by some higher ups "not to worry about it, wont happen" well it did, and they should have had a what if plan. I know they work hard for us, but they dropped the ball on this. And now silence, that is what has me more pissed than the closures. If you are doing something tell your constituents. This sitting at our computers pointing fingers and blaming everyone is not good. People need to feel like something is getting done. Perhaps its time we showed Ottawa our rage.
fish brain
Crew Member
I like almost everything you said blockades I dont think would be useful at this point, but protests go a long way. Recently here on the Island we had the SIA soil dump cancelled partly due to a year or more long protest. More recently Kinder Morgan and Fish Farms. they have a place and with a controlled message they work
I hear your fish brain...so imagine how the people who were lied to face to face feel. The fact that they have the patience not to go off and blow up shouldn't serve as an indication that they are not angry about it. As frustrating as it is to deal with a bureaucracy the size of DFO and the Ministry, I can guarantee that yelling and screaming at them will only cause them to close the door and depict us as selfish whiners who don't care about anything but ourselves. This is the perception we are currently fighting and it will take time to change that perception. When we become a united voice that carries enough votes for a political party to pay attention, we will be listened to.
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Stizzla
Crew Member
Awesome. Dave Babych was one one my favourite Canucks D men from the good ol’ days too. I like him even more now!
Thanks Brian,
I called you out because I know your job is often to step in when threads are getting out of line, and I though It would be nice for you to have a chance to have your say as an angler. You are doing an incredible job with his site, and I value your opinion.
Best regards,
Steve
GLG
Well-Known Member
They say history may not repeat but it can rhyme. The last time this community got together like this was back when we organized to press the halibut allocation issue. It worked and some of the same folks back then are still around today. I'll be waiting for their instruction again this time.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
For thoes that don’t no the Vancouver sports fishing community does blockades every year in the summer at sandheads and Capilano. Harbour patrol coming out to move sports foshing boats out of the way of cargo ships is a regular occurrence on the weekends. Cargo ships have to blow 5 blasts on their horns regular.
We’re lucky port Vancouver hasn’t closed more fishing areas.
We’re lucky port Vancouver hasn’t closed more fishing areas.
Aces
Well-Known Member
I don’t really see how pissing the public off will get them on our side.
I remember back in 1989 I was involved in a truckers strike with many parades and road blocking for a week. It did nothing but lose any public support we had. That was the last time I drove my truck. Sold it at a loss and moved on. Those guys still work for peanuts.
My point is I think negotiating behind the scenes and lobbying in Ottawa will get us further.
I remember back in 1989 I was involved in a truckers strike with many parades and road blocking for a week. It did nothing but lose any public support we had. That was the last time I drove my truck. Sold it at a loss and moved on. Those guys still work for peanuts.
My point is I think negotiating behind the scenes and lobbying in Ottawa will get us further.
bigdogg1
Well-Known Member
There is another Thread here about an article in Island Angler. It is well written and to the point. It openly criticizes both the process and the transparency of the DFO's decision-making...however, the end of the article ended with a sentence that caught my eye, "The federal government needs to do better—much better if the BC recreational fishery has any hope of thriving in the future".
Until we can clearly show them/persuade them/convince that they need to do better, their present mindset will prevail. Simply put, there is no impetus for them to do better on behalf of the BC recreational fishery. My sincere appreciation for all those that have tried to deal with DFO et al to move our agenda forward. I commend your patience and perseverance. I am also impressed with the ground swell that appears to be forming towards creating the impetus that is needed. Like so many others here, I am frustrated and struggle to make sense of this. If you do not tell your story, someone else will and that is the case here. DFO fiction has Trumped
real life facts and non-fiction.I often find it helpful to see an issue from the other side to make sense of where to go. What I keep coming back to is WHY? Why does the DFO and the Fed gov't (and general population) need to do better? What is their impetus? Why should they care?
How do we help them do better? How do we show them why. Until we matter, there is no reason for them to do better.
In an extremely ironical twist, I am about to enjoy an oven-poached Spring salmon caught last month off Gerald Island that would not occur in today's 1 day limit...
Hard to see how a general protest will succeed. In fact, it will probably have the opposite effect. Protests against KM, fish farms, etc. are viewed by people as "altruistic" protests even if they don't agree with the point of view. The protesters want to save the planet, save the fish, save the whales, etc., in other words, causes from which they receive no direct benefits. Sports fishers protests would look like a self interested group who only want more fish for themselves to kill.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
I really think that you should read this before you do anything.
https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/petition-for-srkw-emergency-order_2018-01-30.pdf
This is what the competition put together for the government.
This is what you are fighting.
Extremely effective, note the amount of letters sent.
This is what you have to defeat.
This is the big league.
https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/petition-for-srkw-emergency-order_2018-01-30.pdf
This is what the competition put together for the government.
This is what you are fighting.
Extremely effective, note the amount of letters sent.
This is what you have to defeat.
This is the big league.
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fish brain
Crew Member
Ok I gave this a quick skim, I will read it in detail later, but my quick take home is they feel that exclusion will help the whales. So how about a detailed report stating what the sportfishers do to support the whales and an analysis of what the stocks and whale health would be without our help. Because if they take us off the water there is no impetus for us to continue our work. What will the whales eat then. Seems like a case of be careful what you wish for on behalf of the whale huggers.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
This is what we should expect in the future should chinook stocks continue to deline... If you think your sitting pretty on the WCVI or anywhere your wrong
Velez-Espino et al. modelled several scenarios in a document commissioned for the Pacific Salmon Commission and subsequent published paper, where various fishery closures could improve vital rates of Southern Residents.160 Fishery restrictions that achieved improvements to survival and fecundity included no marine harvest on various combinations of Puget Sound, Fraser Early, and Fraser Late; and 51% harvest reduction on the five large stocks (West Coast of Vancouver Island, Columbia Upriver Brights, Fraser Late, Oregon Coastal, and Puget Sound). The most powerful scenario - a 51% reduction in marine harvest on the five large stockssignificantly improved female survival and fecundity, reversing the population’s modelled decline of 0.09 % annually to achieve positive growth rates and significantly lower the likelihood of extinction.
Lacy et al. further showed that a modeled 30% increase in the coast-wide Chinook abundance above the 1979-2008 average could increase Southern Resident growth rate by as much as 1.9%.161 This growth rate provides a high probability that the currently impaired population could survive at larger and more viable numbers into the future. Achieving this level of increased abundance in the short term, and initiating recovery by harvest restrictions alone, may be difficult. When noise and disturbance are addressed in concert with Chinook abundance,
ITs well written and some of it is very hard to disagree with....
"The current approach of managing Chinook based on zones is not working; it has failed to recover any early-timed Fraser Chinook, and it assumes fishing of Chinook at any abundance"
"level. Management zones for Fraser spring and summer stream-type Chinook should be replaced with rebuilding objectives that maximize terminal recruitment. 163"
One of the sad parts is, is they don't think that aboriginal fisheries are a concern or they are unwilling to call out first nations...
"Rebuilding plans must be implemented that accommodate conservation, Southern Residents, and s. 35(1) constitutional Aboriginal rights before potential commercial and recreational harvest opportunities are allocated. Rebuilding plans would establish recovery-based escapement objectives from which harvest control rules can be developed."
Anyways that document is a must read
Velez-Espino et al. modelled several scenarios in a document commissioned for the Pacific Salmon Commission and subsequent published paper, where various fishery closures could improve vital rates of Southern Residents.160 Fishery restrictions that achieved improvements to survival and fecundity included no marine harvest on various combinations of Puget Sound, Fraser Early, and Fraser Late; and 51% harvest reduction on the five large stocks (West Coast of Vancouver Island, Columbia Upriver Brights, Fraser Late, Oregon Coastal, and Puget Sound). The most powerful scenario - a 51% reduction in marine harvest on the five large stockssignificantly improved female survival and fecundity, reversing the population’s modelled decline of 0.09 % annually to achieve positive growth rates and significantly lower the likelihood of extinction.
Lacy et al. further showed that a modeled 30% increase in the coast-wide Chinook abundance above the 1979-2008 average could increase Southern Resident growth rate by as much as 1.9%.161 This growth rate provides a high probability that the currently impaired population could survive at larger and more viable numbers into the future. Achieving this level of increased abundance in the short term, and initiating recovery by harvest restrictions alone, may be difficult. When noise and disturbance are addressed in concert with Chinook abundance,
ITs well written and some of it is very hard to disagree with....
"The current approach of managing Chinook based on zones is not working; it has failed to recover any early-timed Fraser Chinook, and it assumes fishing of Chinook at any abundance"
"level. Management zones for Fraser spring and summer stream-type Chinook should be replaced with rebuilding objectives that maximize terminal recruitment. 163"
One of the sad parts is, is they don't think that aboriginal fisheries are a concern or they are unwilling to call out first nations...
"Rebuilding plans must be implemented that accommodate conservation, Southern Residents, and s. 35(1) constitutional Aboriginal rights before potential commercial and recreational harvest opportunities are allocated. Rebuilding plans would establish recovery-based escapement objectives from which harvest control rules can be developed."
Anyways that document is a must read
We have pastimes and activities that we do that is as traditional to us as any other citizen.
I get your point, but your succeeding an important part of our culture and basically deeming it not important with that view.
We don’t do this for money, it’s a western tradition too. I can’t see why our culture is any less of value in this issue.
RiverBoy
Well-Known Member
Thing that scares me to death? DFO and any govt for that matter loathes to back track or admit they are ever wrong. Data is clearly already being ignored. So if another resident whale starves to death or washes up on a beach, it will give them the ammo they need to shut it all down.
I can’t help but notice the use of the word
“NETTING” is like a four letter word for some reason. So as an exercise , let’s replace the word NETTING with LOGJAM. Salmon are born in the Fraser and their tribs for example, and go out to sea as smolts where they have to dodge thousands of hungry seals at the river mouth. then they have to forage for food and dodge more seals, fish farms, disease, commercial boats, recreational boats , whales, birds, blobs, etc
They finally come of age and go back home to spawn where they then hit LOGJAM after LOGJAM after LOGJAM. But we stand idly by and do nothing to remove the LOGJAMS. So all the fish die in the LOGJAMS, get sold on the side of the road for $10 and whatever doesn’t get sold gets dumped in the canals and ditches. Then DFO points their finger at the rec sector and sez , “ Your fault.” Does this make a lick of sense?
I can’t help but notice the use of the word
“NETTING” is like a four letter word for some reason. So as an exercise , let’s replace the word NETTING with LOGJAM. Salmon are born in the Fraser and their tribs for example, and go out to sea as smolts where they have to dodge thousands of hungry seals at the river mouth. then they have to forage for food and dodge more seals, fish farms, disease, commercial boats, recreational boats , whales, birds, blobs, etc
They finally come of age and go back home to spawn where they then hit LOGJAM after LOGJAM after LOGJAM. But we stand idly by and do nothing to remove the LOGJAMS. So all the fish die in the LOGJAMS, get sold on the side of the road for $10 and whatever doesn’t get sold gets dumped in the canals and ditches. Then DFO points their finger at the rec sector and sez , “ Your fault.” Does this make a lick of sense?
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
They say relief to communities. Could we use this as leverage to get another 10-15% of hali tac?
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