Sea lice could be affecting wild salmon stocks

Sockeye fry begin smolting in lakes, they stay and become kokanne or leave and become sockeye. Don't lump their life cycle in with that of other salmon. The reason wackos use sockeye as their target species is that people care about soc's. Much better example would be pink fry, much smaller than sockeye smolts, more susceptible to lice infestation. How's their return numbers anyways ?
 
Sockeye fry begin smolting in lakes, they stay and become kokanne or leave and become sockeye. Don't lump their life cycle in with that of other salmon. The reason wackos use sockeye as their target species is that people care about soc's. Much better example would be pink fry, much smaller than sockeye smolts, more susceptible to lice infestation. How's their return numbers anyways ?
Informing you and other readers on this thread that smoltification takes some weeks and that you find juvenile salmon (whether or not you like/dislike the terms "fry" verses "smolts") in the marine environment with parr marks is not "lumping their life cycle in with that of other salmon", SM.

However - the description of what stages use what habitat at what time and for what purpose is describing a "life cycle", SM. People who are concerned about any/all species of fish/salmon are not "wackos" in my opinion, as well. yes- the economic importance of certain species does make them more of a priority for certain segments of employment - but that's not why we ended-up talking about sockeye here. It started with the news release about the science. Yes - due to their smaller size at outmigration - pinks and chums are more susceptible to lice loading - as I described earlier.

I don't expect you to admit you were wrong about your earlier assumptions - but it might be nice to acknowledge the points I made above rather than keeping your assumptions about parr marks.
 
Informing you and other readers on this thread that smoltification takes some weeks and that you find juvenile salmon (whether or not you like/dislike the terms "fry" verses "smolts") in the marine environment with parr marks is not "lumping their life cycle in with that of other salmon", SM.

However - the description of what stages use what habitat at what time and for what purpose is describing a "life cycle", SM. People who are concerned about any/all species of fish/salmon are not "wackos" in my opinion, as well. yes- the economic importance of certain species does make them more of a priority for certain segments of employment - but that's not why we ended-up talking about sockeye here. It started with the news release about the science. Yes - due to their smaller size at outmigration - pinks and chums are more susceptible to lice loading - as I described earlier.

I don't expect you to admit you were wrong about your earlier assumptions - but it might be nice to acknowledge the points I made above rather than keeping your assumptions about parr marks.

Afaik, the only sockeye smolts/fry that might be that size in Georgia Strait would be Harrison,(thus perhaps the parr marks) or perhaps Chilko (2-3 g smolts) in a big year.. too bad a sampling date and some means of measurement were not added to this, imo, a suspect photo.
 
Informing you and other readers on this thread that smoltification takes some weeks and that you find juvenile salmon (whether or not you like/dislike the terms "fry" verses "smolts") in the marine environment with parr marks is not "lumping their life cycle in with that of other salmon", SM.

However - the description of what stages use what habitat at what time and for what purpose is describing a "life cycle", SM. People who are concerned about any/all species of fish/salmon are not "wackos" in my opinion, as well. yes- the economic importance of certain species does make them more of a priority for certain segments of employment - but that's not why we ended-up talking about sockeye here. It started with the news release about the science. Yes - due to their smaller size at outmigration - pinks and chums are more susceptible to lice loading - as I described earlier.

I don't expect you to admit you were wrong about your earlier assumptions - but it might be nice to acknowledge the points I made above rather than keeping your assumptions about parr marks.

Afaik, the only sockeye smolts/fry that might be that size in Johnson Strait would be Harrison,(thus perhaps the parr marks) or perhaps Chilko (2-3 g smolts) in a big year.. too bad a sampling date and some means of measurement were not added to this, imo, a suspect photo.
 
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Informing you and other readers on this thread that smoltification takes some weeks and that you find juvenile salmon (whether or not you like/dislike the terms "fry" verses "smolts") in the marine environment with parr marks is not "lumping their life cycle in with that of other salmon", SM.

However - the description of what stages use what habitat at what time and for what purpose is describing a "life cycle", SM. People who are concerned about any/all species of fish/salmon are not "wackos" in my opinion, as well. yes- the economic importance of certain species does make them more of a priority for certain segments of employment - but that's not why we ended-up talking about sockeye here. It started with the news release about the science. Yes - due to their smaller size at outmigration - pinks and chums are more susceptible to lice loading - as I described earlier.

I don't expect you to admit you were wrong about your earlier assumptions - but it might be nice to acknowledge the points I made above rather than keeping your assumptions about parr marks.
We started talking about sockeye because the linked article was about sockeye,duh ...and I still call bs. How is the pink run doing anyways ? Still a few of them left ? Did the Campbell system have consecutive years of 2 million+ fish ? Even on an off year ? Any fish farms on their migration route ? You dont have any points worth acknowledging. This thread was bs to start with.
 
Sockeye fry begin smolting in lakes, they stay and become kokanne or leave and become sockeye. Don't lump their life cycle in with that of other salmon. The reason wackos use sockeye as their target species is that people care about soc's. Much better example would be pink fry, much smaller than sockeye smolts, more susceptible to lice infestation. How's their return numbers anyways ?

Sockeye fry can begin smolting in lakes, but not all of them. There are exceptions and Harrison (River-Type) is one of them. Widgeon Slough could be another. Kokanee are land-locked Sockeye, which can mate with anadromous Sockeye but I am not too certain about the viability of the offspring. Dave might know more. Kokanee exist in lakes where there are no anadromous Sockeye.

Pink numbers? Doing quite well in the North Pacific. Alaska and Russia pump out millions of them. More studies coming out about that also. In my opinion, more of an issue than sea lice.
 
Afaik, the only sockeye smolts/fry that might be that size in Johnson Strait would be Harrison,(thus perhaps the parr marks) or perhaps Chilko (2-3 g smolts) in a big year.. too bad a sampling date and some means of measurement were not added to this, imo, a suspect photo.

You beat me to it (i.e. Harrison). However, Chilko smolts don't have parr marks like that when they leave the lake. Average size of Chilko smolts is around 88mm. Two-year old Chilko smolts can get quite large (117 to 140mm). That is no Chilko smolt in the photo, in my opinion.
 
The sockeye in the photo could possibly have originated in a system other than the Fraser. From the size of it I would think it might be a more localized stock, say Nimpkish?

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/315899.pdf

S2004-09 Status Review of “Inside” Sockeye Stocks – those adjacent to the Strait of Georgia, North-Eastern Vancouver Island and the Southern Mainland.
D. Dobson, C. Wood
This paper examines the status of coastal sockeye populations in watersheds adjacent to the Strait of Georgia, Johnstone Strait and the southern Mainland Inlets. We considered 13 lake-type populations associated with Sakinaw Lake and the Tzoonie River on the Sunshine Coast, Village Bay Lake on Quadra Island, the Nimpkish River (including Vernon, Woss and Nimpkish lakes) and Quatse and Nahwitti lakes on northeastern Vancouver Island, as well as Phillips, Heydon, Fulmore, Glendale, Klinaklini, Kakweiken and MacKenzie rivers in the southern mainland inlet area. To date, only the Sakinaw Lake population has been assessed with its status reviewed by PSARC and it was subsequently designated as Endangered by the Committee on the Status of Wildlife in Canada. Preliminary inspection of escapement data suggests that other inside sockeye populations may be vulnerable to the same threats as the Sakinaw Lake population. Like Sakinaw sockeye, the other inside sockeye populations have been managed “passively”, meaning that abundance and harvest rate are not monitored during the fishing season, if at all
Of the thirteen populations examined in this study, three have shown serious declines in escapement and are now at critically low abundance (<100 spawners); four are at low abundance relative to historical levels and/or declining; three appear to be stable; and three cannot be assessed because of inconsistent data. Over a 50-year time period, all the populations have declined in abundance with the likely exception of Nahwitti, Phillips, Heydon and Klinaklini. It should be noted, however, that recent escapement estimates for Heydon and Klinaklini cannot be compared directly with historic estimates, and that escapements to the Phillips population have declined steadily in recent years.
Many factors have probably contributed to the long-term declines in abundance of the inside sockeye populations, including habitat degradation and loss and climatic factors. However, the three populations showing the most serious declines and critically low abundance spawn farthest to the south (Areas 13-16) and are thought to migrate through Johnstone Strait in mid summer. They are therefore the most vulnerable to incidental fishing mortality in the mixed stock fisheries in Johnstone Strait. Other populations are vulnerable too, depending on their migration timing and spawning location. The major freshwater habitat factors affecting these sockeye populations are damage related to past logging, climatic/habitat conditions leading to summer low flows and migratory problems; and urban and agricultural land use leading to problems associated with increased access. We cannot yet rule out unfavourable trends in marine habitat either.
7
 
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I could get on board with the idea that it was a local smolt. A few of the ECVI rivers even have "river sockeye". I can't see how it could be a Fraser River fish, the article from the Vancouver Sun clearly states it is a Fraser River fish. You can't drum up a rallying cry from a river like the Nimpkish...most people have never heard of. In 2003 Miss Morton started the lice research, looking to explain the demise of inside pink salmon runs.... the runs returned even though salmon enhancement had faced 10 years of cut backs and fish farm numbers didn't decrease. Her focused shifted to the big buzz words "sockeye" and "Fraser River". Since the initial studies conducted in 2003 real science has found out some interesting facts...there is a direct relation in lice population and ocean salinity and temperature. Years of low snowpack, smaller freshet, equals higher salinity. There is a direct relationship between lice populations and that of non sport fish such as 3 spined stickelback and staghorn sculpin. The real science is very interesting. Compiling the facts looking for a solution or at least an explanation on why. It annoys me when wacko's with an agenda cloud the waters with little cherry picked nuggets of science. It stands in the way of actually finding out whats going on. Agentaqua your obviously intelligent, shelve your agenda, and put the effort into looking for the real causes and solutions. Stop being a shill, it's only money
 
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The link in the original post showed a false picture with false content. Sockeye fry don't exist in the ocean. I feel no need to read further, if I feel it's cherry picked science.

So now you say you have read further.
To me, your posts just sound mad.
 
If I feel it's cherry picked science, I feel no need to read further. I'm basically saying if I think it's BS I'll stop reading it. Not my fault you don't get what I'm laying down, ya dig ?
 
Okay, maybe mad was the wrong word. But you do sound angry. Why not try contacting the lead author? There is an email link in the abstract. see AA's post #6 above.
 
Since the initial studies conducted in 2003 "real science" has found out some interesting facts...there is a direct relation in lice population and ocean salinity and temperature. Years of low snowpack, smaller freshet, equals higher salinity. There is a direct relationship between lice populations and that of non sport fish such as 3 spined stickelback and staghorn sculpin....
In order for sticklebacks to be a "source" verses a "sink" for lice - the lice have to grow big and long enough to contribute babies to the environment. That's pretty simple logic - and it should be easy to understand. Did you look at the numbers of gravid (egg-bearing) female lice that they found on the sticklebacks, SM - or are you more comfortable with instead just developing a blind belief and hoping that the PR teams will scrape something up that can justify your blind belief? Or maybe that is rather the genesis of your blind beliefs - the PR firms?

Jones et al. (2006) couldn't get lice to grow to adult stages on sticklebacks in his lab (see Table 3 below).

Stick to Erza Levant's ravings - if that is what you want - but that is not science nor responsible management. Rant and rave about "real science" if you want to - but maybe read some of it sometime. Your ravings would be credible if you did so.

So now you say you have read further. To me, your posts just sound mad.
Question a person's blind beliefs cuttle - and see the emotions pour out as they respond to the fear of loosing their indefensible perspectives.
 

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The original article in the Vancouver Sun was full of misinformation. You defended it. I don't buy what your selling.

I didn't find cuttle to be questioning what I believed. I understood it to be a question on why I was so fired up.
 
The original article in the Vancouver Sun was full of misinformation. You defended it. I don't buy what your selling...
Actually, SM - if you go back and re-read the thread - I challenged you on your erroneous assertion (post #8) that:
Sockeye migrate to the ocean at 1-3 years old as a smolt, no longer parr marked. That is a picture of a fry in the posted link,most likely dipped from a lake. At least I know better, sorta feel sad for you guys.
I made no comment on content of the actual peer-reviewed journal article itself. However, I would state that this is really not "new" science wrt outlining potential impacts to wild stocks from farm-source lice from open net-pen sites.
 
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[LdnZ1l5TxJk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdnZ1l5TxJk
 
I could get on board with the idea that it was a local smolt. A few of the ECVI rivers even have "river sockeye". I can't see how it could be a Fraser River fish, the article from the Vancouver Sun clearly states it is a Fraser River fish. You can't drum up a rallying cry from a river like the Nimpkish...most people have never heard of. In 2003 Miss Morton started the lice research, looking to explain the demise of inside pink salmon runs.... the runs returned even though salmon enhancement had faced 10 years of cut backs and fish farm numbers didn't decrease. Her focused shifted to the big buzz words "sockeye" and "Fraser River". Since the initial studies conducted in 2003 real science has found out some interesting facts...there is a direct relation in lice population and ocean salinity and temperature. Years of low snowpack, smaller freshet, equals higher salinity. There is a direct relationship between lice populations and that of non sport fish such as 3 spined stickelback and staghorn sculpin. The real science is very interesting. Compiling the facts looking for a solution or at least an explanation on why. It annoys me when wacko's with an agenda cloud the waters with little cherry picked nuggets of science. It stands in the way of actually finding out whats going on. Agentaqua your obviously intelligent, shelve your agenda, and put the effort into looking for the real causes and solutions. Stop being a shill, it's only money

Could you supply your source for this science? I would like to read about this correlation.
 
Could you supply your source for this science? I would like to read about this correlation.
I think the correlation is between the amount of BS the PR firms spew - and how much they are paid to generate doubt, GLG.
 
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