Respected UBC Professor Carl Walters advocates for seal and sea lion cull

That’s why when you here Trites and riddle talk they often say “well what do you want the number to be”

How many seals, killer whales, humpback whales ect because then u can manage the ecosystem.

The salish sea project is apparently building an ecosystem model where they can test out some of these theory.

What will happen when you make X change.
 
Solution to deal with B.C.'s sea lion surplus? Harvest them, group suggests
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A newly formed non-profit group says it has a solution to sea lions gobbling up commercial catches off B.C.'s coast: harvest them.

Sea lion populations have been on the rise for years and wreaking havoc on commercial fishermen's catches and equipment, according to the Pacific Balance Pinniped Society. Adult male California sea lions can grow to as big as 800 pounds and consume massive quantities of fish as they grow.

"Out in the waters and in our rivers, the pinniped populations have just exploded and we know they're targeting mainly salmon, steelhead, trout and other fin fish species," said Thomas Sewid.

He believes seals and sea lions are over-abundant in B.C. waters and is spearheading a solution to deal with them.

"I look at them as being an invasive species," he said. "Just like broom and hogweed, what do we do with an invasive species in British Columbia? We remove it, and that's what we need to do with the California sea lions."

Sewid said First Nations communities should be allowed to do more harvesting of the marine mammals, adding that their meat can be consumed by humans and pets.

He said sea lion blubber can also be turned into nutritional supplements like omega-3 fatty acids.

"Not just the natives want to start harvesting pinnipeds," said Sewid. "This is an industry that can explode throughout coastal British Columbia."

The angler says he and the society know that the idea won't be popular with everyone, given public interest in watching sea lions gather at places like the commercial fishing docks in Cowichan Bay.

Nick Templeman, a member of B.C.'s whale-watching community and owner of Campbell River Whale Watching, says he disagrees with much of the society's position.

"They think they're going to be the balance, I guess, that's going to help the orcas and the fish and everything come back. We don't see it that way," he said. "There's no proof behind seals eating all the Chinook salmon and things like that, so there needs to be more study work done I think."

Templeman says he believes nature, not human intervention, will balance things out in the pinniped population, adding that seals and sea lions are popular prey for Biggs or transient killer whales.

"The transient killer whales will balance out what's happening with the pinnipeds on the coast," he said. "It will happen."

People on both sides of the debate are urging the public to become more informed on the matter and are pressuring government agencies like the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to see their side of the story.

CTV News reached out to the DFO for comment but the agency could not provide one by deadline
 
"Templeman says he believes nature, not human intervention".

Talk about speaking with a fork tounge. If this is the case then let Nature (evolution) deal with the SRKW. The transient killer whales will move in and deal with seals. :confused:

You dont need government studies to show that removing predators will increase the prey numbers. Look at Elk, and Caribou for examples.
 
The challenge on any legitimate "harvest" is who is going to buy the products? Meat for human consumption has been unsuccessfully marketed to Asia already with government subsidies , and thats baby milk fed east coast seals not mature sea lions. The pelts are worth little in an already saturated market. Pet food? The meat would be worth a few cents a pound, and what pet food company wants to be known as the one using seals in its products. That kind of PR companies will avoid like the plague.
 
The challenge on any legitimate "harvest" is who is going to buy the products? Meat for human consumption has been unsuccessfully marketed to Asia already with government subsidies , and thats baby milk fed east coast seals not mature sea lions. The pelts are worth little in an already saturated market. Pet food? The meat would be worth a few cents a pound, and what pet food company wants to be known as the one using seals in its products. That kind of PR companies will avoid like the plague.


I think you will be suprised at how many Canadians & anglers will buy West Coast pelts. Life in Urban Vancouver is much different then the rest of the country. People proudly hang the heads of there prey harvested. Others where fur as a means to keep warm.

I for one will be getting sealion fur seat covers for my boat. I have decided that my anual donations to Salmon conservation will be better spent and actually have an effect by purchasing Sealion pelts. I will both support our FN and save many salmon at the same time.
 
I think you will be suprised at how many Canadians & anglers will buy West Coast pelts. Life in Urban Vancouver is much different then the rest of the country. People proudly hang the heads of there prey harvested. .
They don't buy east coast seal fur products, why would west coast be different? Most of the worlds markets are closed to seal products. The Quota for east coast seals is 400,000. They harvest only 50,000, and the money made is negligible but it's an easy hunt, the young seals are immobile on the ice so are easy to kill and retrieve, all over just a few weeks after they are pupped. so some money can be made. It also a unemployment stamp fishery of course.
 
They don't buy east coast seal fur products, why would west coast be different? Most of the worlds markets are closed to seal products. The Quota for east coast seals is 400,000. They harvest only 50,000, and the money made is negligible but it's an easy hunt, the young seals are immobile on the ice so are easy to kill and retrieve, all over just a few weeks after they are pupped. so some money can be made. It also a unemployment stamp fishery of course.
Although I agree w you in that the IFAW, Greenpeace, SSS and Brigette Bardot and Paul Watson have arrogantly, paternalistic-ally and systematically imposed their personal views & urbanized culture on the East Coast and Inuit harvesters and destroyed their livelihoods - I'd like to know what you definition of "easy" is here wrt the Harp seal hunt?
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Not sure if you ever spend any winters in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, California? The ice moves around and the weather is severe. It is extremely dangerous (e.g: http://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/politics/sealing-disaster-1914.php) and difficult to go anywhere - unless you are on of those aforementioned entitled NGOs and have bilked some old lady out of funds for your helicopter ride.

Oh - and by-the-way - they gave-up the whitecoat hunt many, many years ago - but as you just proved - is yet but another lie eagerly gobbled-up by those whom are naive enough to believe what those NGOs say - and illustrates their lack of reliability, accountability and trustworthiness: "SAVON$ LE$ BEBES-PHOQUES"

Here's some factual info on the Harp seal hunt:
http://vancouversun.com/news/canada...hunt/wcm/c88f01d9-07e5-44bf-a8b7-af785072e983
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/seal...anges20112015/mgtplan-planges20112015-eng.htm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/faqs-the-atlantic-seal-hunt-1.803159
https://www.canadianveterinarians.n...are-and-the-harp-seal-hunt-in-atlantic-canada
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/content/lop/researchpublications/prb0701-e.htm
https://www.hakaimagazine.com/article-long/act-forgiveness-fuels-fight-arctic
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/are-attitudes-around-seal-products-changing-1.3586739
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sealskin-fashion-sexy-nunavut-1.3486990
http://www.sealharvest.ca/csa_booklet.pdf
 
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Although I agree w you in that the IFAW, Greenpeace, SSS and Brigette Bardou and Paul Watson have paternalistic-ally imposed their personal views & urbanized culture on the East Coast and Inuit harvesters and destroyed their livelihoods - I'd like to know what you definition of "easy" is here wrt the Harp seal hunt?
Not sure if you ever spend any winters in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, California? The ice moves around and the weather is severe. It is extremely dangerous (e.g: http://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/politics/sealing-disaster-1914.php) and difficult to go anywhere - unless you are on of those aforementioned entitled NGOs and have bilked some old lady out of funds for your helicopter ride.

"Easy" refers to the fact the seals are concentrated (the population is over 7 million) , immobile on the ice, and the entire hunt occurs over just a few weeks. I am sure there are dangers in getting there as in all fishing in uncertain environments. There are no ice flows here, harbor seal pups can swim immediately, and there are no sea lion pups here, they are mainly juvenile and adult males. Hunting them will be more expensive, and retrieval from water kills more uncertain.

Oh - and by-the-way - they gave-up the whitecoat hunt many, many years ago - but as you just proved - is yet but another lie eagerly gobbled-up by those whom are naive enough to believe what those NGOs say - and illustrates their lack of reliability, accountability and trustworthiness.
Yes, whitecoat hunting was given up, they now wait for the first molt and hunt "ragged jackets". They are about 2 weeks old at the first molt, which is also when the mothers wean them and leave. The pups remain on the ice for up to 6 more weeks living off of the fat reserves they built up while nursing before entering the water. They are still ice bound, and in some respects easier to hunt, as with whitecoats the mother was sometimes killed if she tried to defend the pup. The tactic of calling anyone who provides an opinion not in line with the group think on this subject an NGO sympathizer is tedious. I am not even disagreeing with some selected removal of problem animals in some estuaries, just pointing out the commercial realities and issues with calling it a "harvest"
 
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I agree that the lies that spout from these particular NGOs are way worse than tedious. Very damaging, actually. I really don't care if you "sympathize" with the particular NGOs or other NGOs - or not California. Your or anyone's inexperienced perspective is not my concern - their lies are. This is what I consider the appropriate reaction to their lies is - accountability.

Thank you for detailing the differences between the "ragged jackets" verses the "whitecoats". It seems that narrative is strangely and noticeably missing from the BS that these specific NGOs constantly & still spout-out. As you can see in the pic above - they willfully lie and use the "whitecoat" pics and get their pictures hugging them - thereby driving the mom away from the animal and disrupting any feeding that was going-on in that process of getting a photo op.

Also thank you for admitting that there is no conservation issues - unlike maybe the Baikal seal, and/or the Hawaiian Seals - species that maybe could use some conservation support. On this point alone - it is astoundingly apparent that this is instead a media gong show and a big money-maker for these specific NGOs - truths they are apparently reluctant to admit.

And it's big area - the Gulf of St. Lawrence (some 226,000 square kilometres) - and lots of area to travel and hunt the Harp seals. Those boats only go 7-9kts w/o ice - much less than that (sometimes zero - they can get stuck for days on end) in ice. And the ice moves - as I mentioned - with the seals on it. So... no - it is not at all like shooting ducks in a barrel.

If anything - hunting seals at the choke points on the West Coast involves far less travel and risk to the hunter.
 
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The challenge on any legitimate "harvest" is who is going to buy the products? Meat for human consumption has been unsuccessfully marketed to Asia already with government subsidies , and thats baby milk fed east coast seals not mature sea lions. The pelts are worth little in an already saturated market. Pet food? The meat would be worth a few cents a pound, and what pet food company wants to be known as the one using seals in its products. That kind of PR companies will avoid like the plague.
Well-- your argument that pet food companies would not use seal or sea lion meat sinks like a stone when you look at the present market. Royal Canin has one line of hypoallergenic dog food that uses cute cuddly KANGAROOS as its protein base.
 
More to the point, perhaps those advocating for killing seals and sea lions should consult Australia for marketing suggestions. Surely they had obstacles in using kangaroo meat for pet food.
 
See and look at the comments again. Why is that people think the WW community is not looking out for themselves. There isn't anything wrong with that, but I still don't believe they are onside. Hard to have an ally when you are fundamentally different in approaches. But I am not allowed to say that apparently as you know. :rolleyes:
 
Disclaimer: The events, characters and firms depicted in this post are fictitious. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, or to actual firms, is purely coincidental.

or not...

Just a bit more of the largely unknown but yet entertaining history of what I consider to be the duplicitous and dishonest intent and actions of Paul Watson; since it might be embarrassing to the PR team:

in 1995, Lord Watson took it upon himself to dictate to the generous and giving people of the Iles-de-la-Madeleine from his Royal Decree that from henceforth all activities relating to the harvesting of Harp seals will stop. In his all-encompassing infinite wisdom and experience - all subjects should instead defer to him and his vast authority/knowledge and go forth and brush those cuddly furballs and knock heads no more.

Yep, apparently - if you know just the right place to scratch - they will simply roll over and play dead - like from a movie script. And just like a movie script - God brought his Hollywood disciples - Martin Sheen - to help bring acceptance by the masses - because as we all know - everyone loves and trusts someone who starred in Apocalypse Now - even those remote and ill-edu-m-cated Islanders.

No business plan - no trials that demonstrate the economic viability of how much hair and how many brushes and how many seals - and how expensive the helicopter access was - or whether there even was a market for the hair - or whether or not the seals would even allow it. Just believe God Watson - because he dictates it so.

Well - surprise, surprise - the great unwashed did not appreciate God's interference and judgements.

As soon as they arrived and checked-in - the call went our from the front desk. And within the time it takes to say "Tabernacle" - there was a crowd gathered demonstrating against the glaring ignorance, paternalism and dishonesty. After a 3-4 hour stand-off, where most of the Islanders showed-up - some 1500+ - the QPP made it even more obvious to the oblivious Sheen and arrogant Watson that the only way they could ensure their personal safety was for the dynamic duo to shine the bat light onto the clouds - and flee!

So flee they did - to the church.

Lo and behold - God Watson and entourage were denied entry! When even the local priest sides with the locals against Hollywood's superior experience and knowledge (aka GOD & script-writing) - that says quite a bit.

Watson and Sheen subsequently fled the island on their eco-friendly helicopter - giving up their dream of being fur barons. Instead of learning how inappropriate, anti-productive and paternalistic his approach was - Watson instead retaliated against the Islanders by viciously labeling them "drunken sealers" on his blog and claiming that the sealers only wanted the seal penises - demonstrating to his followers that God is always right. Just ask his PR team.

After getting kicked-out of Greenpeace - and forming the SSS - Watson got a boat - named it the Martin Sheen - crewed it again with Hollywood's finest - and landed on the more friendly West Coast....
 
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I'm not a biologist, I'm just someone who has made observations over time. I've always maintained one of the root causes of the collapse of salmon is the over fishing of herring on our coast. Herring were once the staple of the food chain. The Asian market has such a high demand on herring roe, and annually that increases. As long as we keep targeting the main staple of the food chain, the more we will see the natural predation shift to balance the food chain. Until we set realistic harvest numbers on herring, the more we will see predators adapt and start taking other prey such as salmon smolts. To me, it is ridiculous to witness the carnage placed on a single species...herring and not expect an adverse affect on the rest of the food chain. DFO needs to step up and manage the herring fishery much better than it has been. The herring fishery is way out of control.
 
Actually searun Carl Walters does say he believes that reducing seals would help SRKW. That's his opinion, despite his suggesting an experiment to make sure his belief is correct or not.

"
The thing that will really benefit the SRKW is to see improved survival rate of small Chinook and the only way [he believes] this can be achieved is by reducing seal numbers" I'd say that would pretty much mean he believes in reducing seals (advocating a seal cull). He mentions afterwards that an experiment would best be done first [to prove his and others belief is correct or not]

Since Dr. Walters was one of the major authors of the Pacific Pinniped Balance Society's Management Plan that was submitted to DFO, I would very much say he is a Man who puts his money where his mouth is. And I strongly agree with him in this regard.

However I should note that he is in full support of seal & sea lion HARVESTS (as directly opposed to a "cull").

The "experiment" gets closer to launch each passing day... ;)

Cheers,
Nog
 
Since Dr. Walters was one of the major authors of the Pacific Pinniped Balance Society's Management Plan that was submitted to DFO, I would very much say he is a Man who puts his money where his mouth is. And I strongly agree with him in this regard.

However I should note that he is in full support of seal & sea lion HARVESTS (as directly opposed to a "cull").

The "experiment" gets closer to launch each passing day... ;)

Cheers,
Nog
I'm not against a controlled cull. I live in Comox. Every single day, I drive along the dyke road. There are so many seals, and seal lions, far more than twenty years ago that gather during the runs, but the biggest thing I have noticed is how many seals and sea lions start appearing around the Courtenay River estuary in January and February. I know they are feeding on smolts. Traditionally, in those months, they used to gather for the herring spawn. I have noticed over the last ten years the amount of herring seiners that gather late Feb and early march for the herring opening. It's literally a shitshow of boats. In the same time, I've noticed how much harder it is to find a bait ball in the area. I know there are quite a few fishers of the Kitty Coleman hump and Grant's Reef. I'm quite sure most of you have the same amount of difficulty finding bait balls as I do. We need to really address the quota's on the base feed source if we are going to see viable returns of salmon to the east Vancouver Island coastline as well as migratory fish that rely on the herring stocks to feed them on their journey to their home streams and rivers. Until we get a grip on the herring fishery, my feeling is we will continue to see a decline in the salmon returns. Again, I will state, I am not a biologist, I am just someone who understands the food chain.
 
I'm not against a controlled cull. I live in Comox. Every single day, I drive along the dyke road. There are so many seals, and seal lions, far more than twenty years ago that gather during the runs, but the biggest thing I have noticed is how many seals and sea lions start appearing around the Courtenay River estuary in January and February. I know they are feeding on smolts. Traditionally, in those months, they used to gather for the herring spawn. I have noticed over the last ten years the amount of herring seiners that gather late Feb and early march for the herring opening. It's literally a shitshow of boats. In the same time, I've noticed how much harder it is to find a bait ball in the area. I know there are quite a few fishers of the Kitty Coleman hump and Grant's Reef. I'm quite sure most of you have the same amount of difficulty finding bait balls as I do. We need to really address the quota's on the base feed source if we are going to see viable returns of salmon to the east Vancouver Island coastline as well as migratory fish that rely on the herring stocks to feed them on their journey to their home streams and rivers. Until we get a grip on the herring fishery, my feeling is we will continue to see a decline in the salmon returns. Again, I will state, I am not a biologist, I am just someone who understands the food chain.

Hear hear! Thanks for your post. I agree completely.
I recently received a form email from the Green Party asking me to put forward my ideas on improving the health of our oceans generally, as well as more local issues like SRKW & chinook salmon declines.
Having no practical advice to offer on a global scale I did suggest some things that I believe could be (read "Must be") done locally if we are to have any hope for the future of our local ocean resources.
Chief among them was the immediate need to drastically reduce the herring fishery. I tried to explain the essential link between krill & plankton and the entire rest of the food chain. Herring & other feed fish are this indespensible link.
Secondarily, I mentioned some of the good, recent work being done on selective seal / sea lion population control.
I did receive a reply, but I was pretty disappointed in it. I got the "Thank you for your reply, your concerns will be considered" etc. etc. form letter.
It seemed to me that herring wasn't on their agenda & it was unlikely that it would ever get there. Those little fish just aren't sexy enough, I guess.
I have admired many of the aims of the Greens for years, but my support will stop until they can start facing our real problems with real solutions & start fighting the battles that can be won.
And yes... I fish Grant's Reef regularly & have yet to see a decent sized bait ball on the sounder during late spring or early summer. In fact, the biggest bait ball I did see this year turned out to be shiners! I know, 'cause I jiggled up half a dozen of them.
 
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