RANT: SFAB meeing Wednesday Mar 21 7pm (Victoria)

[Foxsea]

And its getting worse..... http://www.theprovince.com/court+review+native+fishing+rights+case/6379134/story.html
There goes ANY hope of controlling FN fishing

"Rich said, ideally, the government would change the regulatory scheme to allow First Nations to fish from their community to their chosen capacity.
Jamie James, fisheries manager for Mowachaht/Muchalaht Indian Band, said negotiations with the government are already underway. Since the original 2009 B.C. court decision, he said, his community has been working with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to implement a "mutually agreeable fishing plan."

So the power balance in the fishery has now shifted even further away from the DFO and government and more toward the FN's. More reason for us to build bridges and partnerships, recognizing that we are not in an ideal position to make dramatic demands. The influence we can have going forward will be through promoting a positive media and public image and building relationships. If we can be viewed as approachable, collaborative and pro-active we may find that we get some traction on the important issues. I still believe that Profisher has the right idea. Although it must be noted that the F.N.'s are a fragmented community, as we are and that Ernie Crey has perhaps lost influence after the Yale Treaty negotiations.

(and for Chris: my apologies in advance but I've had a few p.m.'s with support and requests from long-established members of this forum that I continue to post my, often controversial, opinions here.)

 

[Rockfish]

Think: Do you really want to write that stuff ('cause it's forever) on a public forum?

I agree; comments like that are just a bad idea; even just to vent. It is counterproductive, contributes nothing and causes a loss of credibility for all fishermen. Hopefully he will go back in and edit it. Time to raise the level of discussion; it is after all, only fish.

 

[calmsea]

I often hear we need to be "open-minded", "approachable", "flexible" and so on. Don't forget, we don't have much to give anymore. In JDF there is half a season of keeping ONE chinook per day (larger size) or even less. How much is there left to give? Those guys are back against the wall already and don't have much more wiggle room for diplomatic games. They are a half step from the cliff. Are you seriously asking them to take another step back to PLEASE the public opinion or to make nice with the FNs? Think!

 

[Foxsea]

I often hear we need to be "open-minded", "approachable", "flexible" and so on. Don't forget, we don't have much to give anymore. In JDF there is half a season of keeping ONE chinook per day (larger size) or even less. How much is there left to give? Those guys are back against the wall already and don't have much more wiggle room for diplomatic games. They are a half step from the cliff. Are you seriously asking them to take another step back to PLEASE the public opinion or to make nice with the FNs? Think!

yeah - have thought. There's lots more to give up - read the news today: Oh, boy...
www.vancouversun.com/mobile-site/Su...native+fishing+rights+case/6379199/story.html
The Supreme Court has spoken - or actually didn't. The "war" is over and we didn't win it. When you're on the bottom, might as well learn to enjoy mish.

 

[Rockfish]

The Supreme Court has spoken - or actually didn't. The "war" is over and we didn't win it. When you're on the bottom, might as well learn to enjoy mish.[/QUOTE]

"mish" -- Had to look it up. Slang dictionary definition - "the so-called missionary sexual position"

You are correct; those of us on the south island have in paticular been getting screwed lately.

 

[Foxsea]

The Supreme Court has spoken - or actually didn't. The "war" is over and we didn't win it. When you're on the bottom, might as well learn to enjoy mish.

"mish" -- Had to look it up. Slang dictionary definition - "the so-called missionary sexual position" You are correct; those of us on the south island have in paticular been getting screwed lately.[/QUOTE]

Delgamuukw clause: case in B.C.

The Court ruled that aboriginal peoples have a constitutional and exclusive right of use and ownership to land they occupied prior to European arrival, in effect going beyond an earlier conception of aboriginal title that included on the right to traditional hunting, fishing and good gathering. As long as aboriginal title is unextinguished and aboriginal people retain interest in the land, Delgamuukw ruled, aboriginal people can use the land or resources in almost any way they wish – traditional or non-traditional – except in a destructive way that might imperil future use.

Learn to enjoy it.

 

[Sculpin]

Destructive is a good word written in law. We will see alot of photos and video in the coming month's of that destructive nature I'm sure. You just wait. This issue is front and center and many folks are going to be documenting the destructivness that WILL imperil future use and has to this date!

 

[Lipripper]

I guess they dont quite understand the fox and chicken coop theory back east. This could have significant impacts on all fish..

Hey... I agree with you on some things

We will see alot of photos and video in the coming month's of that destructive nature I'm sure. You just wait. This issue is front and center and many folks are going to be documenting the destructivness that WILL imperil future use and has to this date!

Lets hope that happens..

There is some bad bad stuff going on

 

[searun]

Court or no court, this is about achieving a conservation outcome. All parties need to work together to do their part towards achieving a conservation objective IF the Albion Test Fishery in June determines the predictions for less than 30,000 42 and 52 Chinook were accurate. Bottom line is the recreational fleet in both the ocean and fresh water have more than contributed their proportional contribution already. This is particularly visible when you look at the comparisons of CWTs between the baseline exploitation rates showing up in the CWT's and those of 2011 when the full conservation measures were put into play. We say enough - the rec fleet has more than contributed proportionally to conservation. Here's the CWT's to support that point:

Source of CWT.............. Base Line Pre 2010...............2011..................Change +/-

North Troll.................... 1.4%...................................1.4%.............................0%
North Sport ....................3.9......................................2.0................................-1.9
North Net........................0.........................................0..................................0
WCVI Troll.......................4.2......................................2.0................................2.2
WCVI Sport......................1.3......................................1.3................................0
Gulf of Georgia Troll...........0.........................................0.................................0
GoG Sport.........................1.1.....................................1.1...............................0
JDF Sport..........................11.8....................................3.3..............................-8.5
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Total Ocean all sources........23.8....................................11.2............................-12.6



Fraser River FN...................35.8...................................34.3.............................-1.5
Fraser River Sport...............1.7.....................................0.4..............................-1.5
Fraser River Commercial......3.1......................................3.4..............................+0.3


Fraser River Total................40.4....................................38.1............................-2.3



Total Exploitation.................64.2....................................49.3............................-14.9


DFO Conservation Target reduction to 32% for 2012

Time to sit down with all users and look objectively at this data and reach agreement on how we can each contribute proportionally to our conservation target for protecting these fish.

 

[Sculpin]

Thank you searun for those numbers. They don't lie but the media does for other's interest. That is one to look into. How much money does the FN give to media outlet's? It's our taxpayers dollar's I'm assuming?

Oh excuse me while I bend over a barrel.........

 

[searun]

I actually think that the FN guys are quite reasonable, and when they see this data it will be hard to refute the facts. The real issue is finding a way to encourage all parties to adopt a proportional approach to taking accountability for implementing conservation measures that make sense. I think that any other options they could throw at the rec fishery to take further reductions would only amount to less than a few hundred fish - there just isn't anything more to give.

 

[Sculpin]

I actually think that the FN guys are quite reasonable, and when they see this data it will be hard to refute the facts. The real issue is finding a way to encourage all parties to adopt a proportional approach to taking accountability for implementing conservation measures that make sense. I think that any other options they could throw at the rec fishery to take further reductions would only amount to less than a few hundred fish - there just isn't anything more to give.

Stop being so nice. They have seen the data!!!!

 

[searun]

Not yet, but they will according to the guys who work with them in the local SFAC harvest round table etc. Ernie and Ken will be a bit surprised. This is hot off the press. The data shared a few weeks ago was not as updated as this set. DFO science has been running some modelling to examine a host of options to further restrict the sport fleet, while ignoring the elephant in the room. I think we can just go direct to the elephant and talk about proportionality. The media would have a field day with this data if FN refused to engage and take some action to contribute to their proportion...and I suspect they know it and would not be silly enough to ignore the political and reputational ramifications.

Bottom line is the rec fleet has more than sacrificed. The reality is we are now down to talking about less than a few hundred fish - one or two net sets.

 

[Lipripper]

I actually think that the FN guys are quite reasonable,

I agree... If Mr. Crey wants to talk I wouldn't be there. Useless....

But there are more options.

 

[Sculpin]

Not yet, but they will according to the guys who work with them in the local SFAC harvest round table etc. Ernie and Ken will be a bit surprised.

I have to disagree with this one because as they are the forefront of the fishery as many on here claim. They are the top of the pole. They have totally control over what happens. They get to see the number's before we do. I think you are the one who may be suprised. Please say I am wrong.

 

[Lipripper]

Please say I am wrong.

 

[Foxsea]

The real issue is finding a way to encourage all parties to adopt a proportional approach to taking accountability for implementing conservation measures that make sense.

Now we're talking! It's not so much playing nice as playing smart. Let the media know that this situation is dire and that we sportfishers are working diligently and cooperatively to implement any and all conservation measures necessary to reverse the trend that imperils the future of this resource." That's repeating the language of the Court so all will understand the implication.

 

[Sculpin]

Now we're talking! It's not so much playing nice as playing smart. Let the media know that this situation is dire and that we sportfishers are working diligently and cooperatively to implement any and all conservation measures necessary to reverse the trend that imperils the future of this resource." That's repeating the language of the Court so all will understand the implication.

The destructive part written in law will come you just wait.

 

[lorneparker1]

Now we're talking! It's not so much playing nice as playing smart. Let the media know that this situation is dire and that we sportfishers are working diligently and cooperatively to implement any and all conservation measures necessary to reverse the trend that imperils the future of this resource." That's repeating the language of the Court so all will understand the implication.

Why would they want to play nice or smart? they have all the power. They dont have to do sweet f all! So what makes you think now after years and years and year of abuse they are going to change? especially when they dont have to? They dont care about us. Stop thinking that.

 

[Foxsea]

Why would they want to play nice or smart? they have all the power. They dont have to do sweet f all! So what makes you think now after years and years and year of abuse they are going to change? especially when they dont have to? They dont care about us. Stop thinking that.

Okay Lorne, I'll bite - what should I be thinking?