Prawn Closures

I'm OK with closing the fishery for spawning, it just makes sense! What I don't like is opening the Inlet area for commercial carpet bombing shortly after the spawning closure expires. In addition the inlet has, as is normally the case ,been only open for pulse fishing since September. Now I suspect that is to protect the stock, which once again makes sense. What doesn't make sense to me is that if the stock is so tentative that you need pulse fishing to protect it, why do you follow up with a commercial fishery?
I realize the commercial guys need to make a living, but as someone said, its a big ocean and surely there are other day places to commercial fish other than a heavily populated areas.
In 40 days of intense fishing the Saanich Inlet is hammered! The prawning is slow most of the summer because of it, it recovers a bit in the fall in time for pulse fishing. Closes for three months for spawning and the opens again so the commercial guys can benefit from the austerity measures imposed on everyone else! This fishery seems to be managed strictly to accommodate a 40 day commercial opening!
 
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I'm OK with closing the fishery for spawning, it just makes sense! What I don't like is opening the Inlet area for commercial carpet bombing shortly after the spawning closure expires.

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It opens in May because it's fishing on a different group of prawns(younger year class moving up), the opening is delayed so all of those older spawners have a chance to release their eggs. They're gone by the time the new fishery starts.

In addition the inlet has, as is normal ,been only open to pulse fishing since September. Now I suspect that is to protect the stock, which once again makes sense. What doesn't make sense to me is if the stock is so tentative that you need pulse fishing to protect it, why do you follow up with a commercial fishery?

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The pulse fishing is a management strategy designed to reduce the impact of the rec fishery by slowing the harvest down and to get the guys who prawn 24/7 out of the water. It happens only in Saanich and Stuart and Alberni and it was based on a plan that the SFAB recommended and help design. Those high use areas have a lot of rec effort and significant rec catch and pulsing slows that down.

I realize the commercial guys need to make a living, but as someone said, its a big ocean and surely there are other day places to commercial fish other than a heavily populated areas. In 40 days of intense fishing the Saanich Inlet is hammered! The prawning is slow most of the summer because of it, it recovers a bit in the fall in time for pulse fishing. Closes for three months for spawning and the opens again so the commercial
guys can benefit from the austerity measures! This fishery seems to be managed strictly to accommodate a 40 day commercial opening!

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The fishery is managed for everyone's benefit, you guys need to be responsible for your impact and in the high use areas your impact is more so there are more management measures in place to protect spawners in those places. High use areas have more restrictions on commercial too, it's not just rec.
 
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Spot prawn are protandrous hermaphrodites, male first and female second. The only reproduce as females once. The timing of the commercial fishery is set up to apply the pressure to the population after the larvae have been released (usually finished in April). This minimizes the impact on the population relative to any other time of year. The maximum impact on the population is applied by fishing in late winter... this is why the most restrictive regulations occur during this period. Opening the fishery to the rec fisherman in April before the Commercial guys get a shot arguably constitutes priority access for sporties.

I am a sport fisherman and take my solid share of Prawns every year... I am also someone who has grave reservations about how many fisheries are managed in BC. However, the spot prawn fishery is not one of them. I would argue the rec sector needs to pick its battles when criticizing fisheries management to avoid being written off as unreasonable.
 
I guess it's more fun to be paranoid and blame the other guy.

Ok guys...First of gm thanks for being here I have seen you under gun before in many meetings with us.... But I think why people are so pissed is we all have gone from essentially unlimited restriction in months to pulse fishing and now this... And many feel that the commercial sector is just wailing on the resource in one shot when they open. I am not saying we are innocent here at all.

I fish winter I prefer it it less busy and there are more prawns. I don't really get how you are saying there is a rapid decline its been steady at least where I go. Now I look at this where I go in crofton area are completely closed. If this is the way then that has been decided we can't get you off that decision. Its been made now. Is pulse fishing not working? Is there data that leads us to believe that is not working. I am sorry I only see 2012 data there.

What I keep asking for is for DFO to simply not just give last minute warnings..You do it with halibut and other species such as our JDF chinook opening in summer and it is frustrating. Had I known that this was going to happen I would have been setting traps in fall..I held off as I like to do this with the kids in the winter when we go winter spring fishing. Now I essentially have only two week window to get what I need until it closes as my area is in pulse fishing.... I am just saying this news sucks but when you give us short notices it makes it even worse. We should have known at least a few months ago. I phoned even my SFAB representative and he didn't even know until today.
 
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Ok guys...First of gm thanks for being here I have seen you under gun before in many meetings with us.... But I think why people are so pissed is we all have gone from essentially limited restriction to pulse fishing and now this... And many feel that the commercial sector is just wailing on the resource in one shot when they open. I am not saying we are innocent here at all.

Gc- ok what's the limited restriction you are talking about sv?


I fish winter I prefer it it less busy and there are more prawns. I don't really get how you are saying there is a decline its been steady at least where I go. Now I look at this where I go in crofton area are completely closed. If this is the way then that has been decided we can't get you off that decision. Its been made now. Is pulse fishing not working? Is there data that leads us to believe that is not working. I am sorry I only see 2012 data there.

Gc - I prefer winter too, would rather prawn then too, but lots of people do catch prawns from spring till fall. Not me, I stop when the commercial guys start and usually don't start until Oct again. The decline in catch is coast wide, some areas catch is probably more stable in some areas than others but as a whole, catch has been on the decline since 2011, I'm sure 2014 will be no different. Pulse fishing as I mentioned before is designed to slow fishing down in high use areas so it's probably helping taking some of the pressure off by getting some of the gear out of the water.

What I keep asking for is for DFO to simply not just give last minute warnings..You do it with halibut and other species such as our JDF chinook opening in summer and it is frustrating. Had I known that this was going to happen I would have been setting traps in fall..I held off as I like to do this with the kids in the winter when we go winter spring fishing. Now I essentially have only two week window to get what I need until it closes as my area is in pulse fishing.... I am just saying this news sucks but when you give us short notices it makes it even worse. We should have known at least a few months ago. I phoned even my SFAB representative and he didn't even know until today.

Gc - the challenge with this is the spawner index testing is done in October, and the results take a while to come in. I only knew the results last week, It's a good point and ill check into this and see if we can notify the public earlier. Keep in mind that Stuart is open 2 weeks a month from Jan-March so that's pretty good access for most people.
 
Gamechanger

Is there any info in the DFO archives that has to do with mortality rates of berried females when they are returned back when they have been caught and returned whether sport or commercial?

Most people I know that prawn fish throw the berried females back as they hope it will protect the resource, just like having to return all female crabs to protect that resource as well. If an area gets closed down to try and rebuild the stock and allow the females to spawn maybe that area should also remain closed to the commercial sector for that season to see how things turn out in those areas after a closure rather than allowing the stock to slowly rebuild in a area and then get carpet bombed and cleaned out a couple of weeks after a closure. I think most guys are getting up set because they are told they can't fish an area, then are told they get a small window to fish it prior to it get cleaned out again for another 6 months and then closed again for low spawner index. Doesn't make sense to me but what do I know. I only prawn in the early winter and give up for the rest of the year. Just my 2 cents.
 
Gamechanger

Is there any info in the DFO archives that has to do with mortality rates of berried females when they are returned back when they have been caught and returned whether sport or commercial?

Most people I know that prawn fish throw the berried females back as they hope it will protect the resource, just like having to return all female crabs to protect that resource as well. If an area gets closed down to try and rebuild the stock and allow the females to spawn maybe that area should also remain closed to the commercial sector for that season to see how things turn out in those areas after a closure rather than allowing the stock to slowly rebuild in a area and then get carpet bombed and cleaned out a couple of weeks after a closure. I think most guys are getting up set because they are told they can't fish an area, then are told they get a small window to fish it prior to it get cleaned out again for another 6 months and then closed again for low spawner index. Doesn't make sense to me but what do I know. I only prawn in the early winter and give up for the rest of the year. Just my 2 cents.

I don't think there's much info on the survival of berries females and release mortality but it's something that could be looked at in some way by scientists I'm sure. Lots of unknowns like understanding how much stress is put on the prawns bouncing them up and down checking on them. I think some of them make it, likely not all and it probably depends on a lot of things like how deep, how long out of the water, etc...best thing is just not to fish them in the areas where the abundance is low which is what the program tries to do.
 
Will be at the dinghy dock with a bunch of other guys from the forum next sat if guys want to chat more. We are also going to give a presentation to the SFAB at the South Coast meeting in Nanaimo on Sat if people are interested, there's usually a couple of seats for observers available. Check with your SFAB reps.

Cheers gc
 
I agree that if there is low abundance in an area it should be closed and I think if it was left closed for the commercial opening then there would be little guys would argue about. If an area needs to regenerate then allow it to happen, not get cleaned out to the point it will be closed again.

Do you really want to get backed into a corner at the dinghy dock, someone may make you walk the plank. I highly doubt derby would help you, just put some rum in front of him and he will be pre-occupied! See ya there. And I won't discuss this during a festive get together.
 
Yes derby is a little bit of a lush when the sauce comes out...his weakness is r&c's and empty tackle boxes. Happy to chat anytime, especially over some pints.

A lot of this stuff is difficult to explain this way, it's complicated, open to suggestions of how we can help people better understand these issues.
 
Gamechanger you said that in areas like the inlet the commercial fishers are subject to additional restrictions. Can you elaborate?
 
I want to know what happened that made the DFO believe that this was a good idea. Why is it they can help the commerial sector catch more so they can sell more over seas.

Who, when and why anyone would think this was a good idea.

What other agreement have these guys made?
 
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Gamechanger you said that in areas like the inlet the commercial fishers are subject to additional restrictions. Can you elaborate?

The commercial fishery sampling there is more frequent and they are managed to a higher spawner index compared to the rest of the coast (Alberni's the same).
 
Wow, wasn't that an interesting read. Firstly, I'm OK with conservation closures. If these closures are necessary and supportable scientifically then that is the right thing to do.

I personally have a lot to learn about prawn management. I still haven't been able to fully understand how the spawner index works and is responsive enough to provide reliable, fast, in the moment management decision analytics. Seems that this method is always lagging behind what is happening on the grounds when trying to manage the commercial fishery in particular - which can remove large quantities of prawns over a short period.

I'm also personally in favour of Area licensing to encourage more responsible fishing practices, as opposed the the "run and gun" approach that has developed in the past decade. For example, with these fast light boats in use now, commercial prawners can blast an area like carpet bombing, and quickly pick up and move areas to repeat the process. All this happens so quickly, how on earth can DFO Managers react in a timely way to close down sub areas that get bombed? To me the benefit of Area licensing is there is a direct link to looking after the well being of a particular Area because your future as a fisher is tied directly to the healthy management of it. Wide open, run and gun fisheries do not bring about any real accountability.

Not being critical of DFO, just trying to better understand how we can manage this fishery more wisely - and of course to share my perspective.

Prawn on.
 
Wow, wasn't that an interesting read. Firstly, I'm OK with conservation closures. If these closures are necessary and supportable scientifically then that is the right thing to do.

I personally have a lot to learn about prawn management. I still haven't been able to fully understand how the spawner index works and is responsive enough to provide reliable, fast, in the moment management decision analytics. Seems that this method is always lagging behind what is happening on the grounds when trying to manage the commercial fishery in particular - which can remove large quantities of prawns over a short period.

I'm also personally in favour of Area licensing to encourage more responsible fishing practices, as opposed the the "run and gun" approach that has developed in the past decade. For example, with these fast light boats in use now, commercial prawners can blast an area like carpet bombing, and quickly pick up and move areas to repeat the process. All this happens so quickly, how on earth can DFO Managers react in a timely way to close down sub areas that get bombed? To me the benefit of Area licensing is there is a direct link to looking after the well being of a particular Area because your future as a fisher is tied directly to the healthy management of it. Wide open, run and gun fisheries do not bring about any real accountability.

Not being critical of DFO, just trying to better understand how we can manage this fishery more wisely - and of course to share my perspective.

Prawn on.

Holy **** searun, I just spent over an hour writing you a response on a blackberry playbook (painfully slow) and when I went to post it I was logged off and I lost it all....

Ok, here goes for the second time around. My first response was probably better than this will be.

The spawner index isnt a responsive tool, and it doesn't provide any magical analytics. All it is is a biological reference point that gives you an idea of where you want to be in regards to the number of females you are catching per trap (on average) as you harvest prawns. When the commercial fishery opens in May/June the spawner index is around 6-7 spawners per trap (thats the minimum DFO thinks is a good population base to sustain healthy populations into the future...lots of work went into this). The spawner index has a long history of being used to manage the prawn fisheries in BC, 30+ years, and it has worked well for a long time. As the commercial fishery takes place in May and June DFO gets samples in-season that give them snapshots of biologically where the population is at. At the start of the season the samples are all over the place, 20, 30 more, etc spawners ...and sometimes they are lower but in general they are up there. As the commercial fishery continues and the prawn abundance is fished down, the spawner numbers start to come down closer to the index and DFO makes decisions on when to close areas based on that data and fishing effort. DFO doesn't wait until the index is breached before making decisions to close, they assess the risk based on the effort and what the data in the area is looking like, where the samples are coming from, how many boats in the areas, distibution of samples spatially and temporally, etc..there's a whole bunch of factors that add up to whether or not an area should close.

How long areas stay open is how the Department deals with the "run and gun" fishery as you call it, there's less tolerance of leaving areas open for any length of time because there's more risk associated with more vessels fishing in smaller areas. As more vessles funnel in to smaller spaces, areas close sooner and the Coastwide closure goes into effect sooner. Last year it was 40 days. The commercial vessels all have electronic monitoring systems on their vessels, so DFO knows where they area and can keep track of all of this stuff. They meet twice a week to review all of this information an make decisions as to what areas should close when.

Keep in mind that the spawner index is one tool in the tool box to manage prawn fisheries, its not the only thing DFO uses. There are lots of other tools that are just as important/more important. There are commercial license limits, trap limits, size limits, haul limits (once per day), no berried females, season timing, etc...that are all management measures used to manage the fishery. The season length fluctuates with abundance, but in the last few years hasn't changed drastically. You can't bet the farm on the spawner index and get too worked up about it because it just gives you a snapshot of where you are biologically as you fish, and where you want to be (minimum abundance). It's a piece of the pie, it's not the whole pie.

Its complicated, but hopefully some of this stuff helps you guys understand what really goes into this fishery. The SFAB and DFO work hard to ensure the prawn fishery remains a world-class fishery (it currently is) and you should be thankful for all of the work that a handful of people do on your behalf rather than slinging mud.
 
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