wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Maybe it’s automated on the website not sure still might be another vote then
Pinniped Developments
- Thread starter IronNoggin
- Start date
cohochinook
Well-Known Member
A big loss for the salmon. Liberals and NDP have to go!Something is very VERY Amiss here.
As I noted, the Speaker stated that the vote was now removed until the next sitting in October.
Then, quietly, the government website suddenly announces the Bill as being defeated:
C-251 (44-1) - LEGISinfo - Parliament of Canada
C-251 (44-1) - LEGISinfo - Parliament of Canadawww.parl.ca
I personally watched the vote via parlvu. I watched as four Liberals stood in support.
How is it possible that the vote now reflects but TWO Liberals in support?
Vote Detail - 151 - Members of Parliament - House of Commons of Canada
Vote Detail - 151 - Members of Parliament - House of Commons of Canadawww.ourcommons.ca
Something very much STINKS here...
Nog
Steplift
Well-Known Member
This seems like the wolf explosion we seen in Alberta the last 10 years. Bounties were issued in certain zones due to the lack of active trappers now days to help curb the population growth. It got lots of attention and the balance came back into acceptable levels in some areas.
Our government is beyond incompetent and in need of a reality check just my opinion but the SSS rule might have to happen.
Our government is beyond incompetent and in need of a reality check just my opinion but the SSS rule might have to happen.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
When the new environment minister was hired that should have been a clear signal where we are headed.
This isn't shocking. Unfortunately there is a group of individuals with strong environmental roots driving policies across Canada especially in fisheries.
All the NGO groups like for example the MCC Caucus and their supporters are never going to support this at a large scale. As a result they have countered this effort just like they always do. Briefcases and private meetings with key stakeholders all done out of the view of the public.
I think it is sad because there are problems in our streams/rivers that need to be addressed. The more we put this off the worse it is going to get. I support this at a small targeted scale in the estuaries and rivers. It needs to be done. Sorry facts are facts.
And yes I am making that comment from a salmon enhancement perspective from actually seeing these problems first hand. Not from a cubicle in office with a Starbucks downstairs.
This isn't shocking. Unfortunately there is a group of individuals with strong environmental roots driving policies across Canada especially in fisheries.
All the NGO groups like for example the MCC Caucus and their supporters are never going to support this at a large scale. As a result they have countered this effort just like they always do. Briefcases and private meetings with key stakeholders all done out of the view of the public.
I think it is sad because there are problems in our streams/rivers that need to be addressed. The more we put this off the worse it is going to get. I support this at a small targeted scale in the estuaries and rivers. It needs to be done. Sorry facts are facts.
And yes I am making that comment from a salmon enhancement perspective from actually seeing these problems first hand. Not from a cubicle in office with a Starbucks downstairs.
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Just prior to the second reading of this bill, Gord Johns (NDP) met with me & Ken Pearce (Founder of PBPS).
He assured both of us that he was very conversant with the problem as he was on the Fisheries & Oceans Standing Committee for a lengthy time. He further noted he had reviewed the Bill in detail, was in favor of it, and suggested we could use his name as being so when discussing the matter with his NDP colleagues.
In other conversations, it was apparent that the majority of the NDP MP's were leaning towards voting in favor of the Bill.
Then the vote. Every single NDP MP voted against it, including Gord Johns.
Investigations since then have verified that David Suzuki approached the NDP and tersely informed them the science behind this issue was not sound. Claiming "unknown consequences" he urged them to vote nay.
The lieberal Fisheries Minister was and is firmly against any such action on our West Coast. She also saw this as a loss of her influence were the Bill to be passed. So, she reached out to the PMO which in turn whipped their caucus (all but two voted nay), and put extreme pressure on the NDP to vote in conjunction with them on the matter as part and parcel of their ongoing coalition.
Thus the Bill failed to pass. Not based upon it's merits, but purely for political purposes.
And while they play silly games, our salmon continue to disappear into the jaws of their overpopulated predators.
The continuing depression of salmon stock numbers sits squarely at their feet.
Shame.
He assured both of us that he was very conversant with the problem as he was on the Fisheries & Oceans Standing Committee for a lengthy time. He further noted he had reviewed the Bill in detail, was in favor of it, and suggested we could use his name as being so when discussing the matter with his NDP colleagues.
In other conversations, it was apparent that the majority of the NDP MP's were leaning towards voting in favor of the Bill.
Then the vote. Every single NDP MP voted against it, including Gord Johns.
Investigations since then have verified that David Suzuki approached the NDP and tersely informed them the science behind this issue was not sound. Claiming "unknown consequences" he urged them to vote nay.
The lieberal Fisheries Minister was and is firmly against any such action on our West Coast. She also saw this as a loss of her influence were the Bill to be passed. So, she reached out to the PMO which in turn whipped their caucus (all but two voted nay), and put extreme pressure on the NDP to vote in conjunction with them on the matter as part and parcel of their ongoing coalition.
Thus the Bill failed to pass. Not based upon it's merits, but purely for political purposes.
And while they play silly games, our salmon continue to disappear into the jaws of their overpopulated predators.
The continuing depression of salmon stock numbers sits squarely at their feet.
Shame.
cohochinook
Well-Known Member
Bloody Suzuki! What a phony!
well here's one of the main players behind the scenes in the DSF pushing his own narrative about looking the other way wrt seals:
Here's his exceedingly biased and misleading article that DSF is still following:
davidsuzuki.org
as an FYI - he is also the owner-operator of Outer Shores Lodge in Bamfield. Here's their contacts in case Scott is open for explaining himself and his accountability:
I guess he failed to recognize that the Huu-ay-aht who's territory he is operating in used to extensively harvest seals and other marine mammals:
What do they call that - cognitive dissonance?
yet another minor royalty dictating to the great unwashed. As a contrast - here is Terry Glavin's take on it (from the East Coast):
Here's his exceedingly biased and misleading article that DSF is still following:
Ideology, not ecology, guiding seal-cull decisions
Calls to cull B.C. seal and sea lions in the name of protecting salmon are misinformed. Salmon actually make up only a tiny fraction of pinnipeds' diets.
davidsuzuki.org
as an FYI - he is also the owner-operator of Outer Shores Lodge in Bamfield. Here's their contacts in case Scott is open for explaining himself and his accountability:
Contact - Outer Shores Expeditions
At Outer Shores we like nothing better than hearing from people like you – individuals, couples, families, and other groups interested in joining our
outershores.ca
I guess he failed to recognize that the Huu-ay-aht who's territory he is operating in used to extensively harvest seals and other marine mammals:
What do they call that - cognitive dissonance?
yet another minor royalty dictating to the great unwashed. As a contrast - here is Terry Glavin's take on it (from the East Coast):
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Holy cow thanks for posting this.
Steplift
Well-Known Member
Good read thank you. I don’t get the local knowledge out here much appreciated for all the guys on here that share it.well here's one of the main players behind the scenes in the DSF pushing his own narrative about looking the other way wrt seals:
Here's his exceedingly biased and misleading article that DSF is still following:
Ideology, not ecology, guiding seal-cull decisions
Calls to cull B.C. seal and sea lions in the name of protecting salmon are misinformed. Salmon actually make up only a tiny fraction of pinnipeds' diets.
as an FYI - he is also the owner-operator of Outer Shores Lodge in Bamfield. Here's their contacts in case Scott is open for explaining himself and his accountability:
Contact - Outer Shores Expeditions
At Outer Shores we like nothing better than hearing from people like you – individuals, couples, families, and other groups interested in joining ouroutershores.ca
I guess he failed to recognize that the Huu-ay-aht who's territory he is operating in used to extensively harvest seals and other marine mammals:
What do they call that - cognitive dissonance?
yet another minor royalty dictating to the great unwashed. As a contrast - here is Terry Glavin's take on it (from the East Coast):
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
What a joke.
Endangered orcas suffered calorie deficit in recent years: UBC study
A new study released by the University of British Columbia found that southern resident killer whales did not have enough to eat in recent years, which correlates to higher mortality and lower fertility rates.
"Those declines have continued despite severe fisheries reductions, and one very likely candidate for causing them is the massive increase in abundance of Steller sea lions since the mid-1980s; those sea lions now consume more fish than all the B.C. commercial fisheries for all species, combined," said Dr. Carl Walters, senior author of the study and retired professor at IOF.
Requirements and availability of prey for northeastern pacific southern resident killer whales
The salmon-eating Southern Resident killer whale (SRKW) (Orcinus orca) population currently comprises only 73 individuals, and is listed as ‘endangered’ under the Species at Risk Act in Canada. Recent evidence suggests that the growth of this population may be limited by food resources...
the high natural mortality observed in juvenile Chinook salmon in the Salish Sea might also indicate increasing predation by growing populations of harbor seals and sea lions [33–36].
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
well here's one of the main players behind the scenes in the DSF pushing his own narrative about looking the other way wrt seals:
Here's his exceedingly biased and misleading article that DSF is still following:
Ideology, not ecology, guiding seal-cull decisions
Calls to cull B.C. seal and sea lions in the name of protecting salmon are misinformed. Salmon actually make up only a tiny fraction of pinnipeds' diets.
as an FYI - he is also the owner-operator of Outer Shores Lodge in Bamfield. Here's their contacts in case Scott is open for explaining himself and his accountability:
Contact - Outer Shores Expeditions
At Outer Shores we like nothing better than hearing from people like you – individuals, couples, families, and other groups interested in joining ouroutershores.ca
I guess he failed to recognize that the Huu-ay-aht who's territory he is operating in used to extensively harvest seals and other marine mammals:
What do they call that - cognitive dissonance?
yet another minor royalty dictating to the great unwashed. As a contrast - here is Terry Glavin's take on it (from the East Coast):
Interesting advocates to close everything and stay away from whales/fish go into business for themselves in high end premier ECO lodge right in Bamfield. Serving up seafood, and watching whales. How ironic.
Ironic is the polite descriptor, SV: duplicitous, disingenuous, dishonest might be a few more terms I would add.
www.timescolonist.com
“Those declines have continued despite severe fisheries reductions, and one very likely candidate for causing them is the massive increase in abundance of Steller sea lions since the mid-1980s,” Walters writes. “Those sea lions now consume more fish than all the B.C. commercial fisheries for all species, combined.”
UBC study finds seals eat more chinook than orcas do
UBC scientists urge size-selective fishing techniques to protect large chinook
www.timescolonist.com
“Those declines have continued despite severe fisheries reductions, and one very likely candidate for causing them is the massive increase in abundance of Steller sea lions since the mid-1980s,” Walters writes. “Those sea lions now consume more fish than all the B.C. commercial fisheries for all species, combined.”
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
its just more anti human activity that's the bread and butter of these groups. Even if there's good returns it wont change anything
Once again evidence of how much pinnipeds affect salmon runs is the Columbia river run
In December 2018, the US president signed into law legislation that gives state and tribal resource managers more flexibility to manage sea lion predation on Columbia River fish populations.
The legislation allows the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) to approve permits for Washington, Oregon, and several area Indian tribes that streamline the removal process for a designated number of sea lions from a portion of the Columbia River and adjacent tributaries each year.
In August 2020, NMFS approved an application allowing WDFW and partners to expand their program to lethally remove sea lions preying on threatened and endangered salmon and steelhead in the Columbia River basin.
California sea lion numbers have grown rapidly since the 1970s and the species is now at "carrying capacity" – the highest level the environment can sustain – according to wildlife biologists. The U.S. population of California sea lions is currently estimated at some 300,000 animals, all on the Pacific coast. In the 1950s, the U.S. population of California sea lions estimated at 10,000 animals
In 2002, they observed 31 California sea lions consume 448 salmon and steelhead in the tailrace area, which extends about one-quarter mile below the dam. In 2017, by comparison, they documented 156 individual sea lions consuming an estimated 5,384 salmon and steelhead in the same area. In two days.
So they scared some of them to come north.
In December 2018, the US president signed into law legislation that gives state and tribal resource managers more flexibility to manage sea lion predation on Columbia River fish populations.
The legislation allows the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) to approve permits for Washington, Oregon, and several area Indian tribes that streamline the removal process for a designated number of sea lions from a portion of the Columbia River and adjacent tributaries each year.
In August 2020, NMFS approved an application allowing WDFW and partners to expand their program to lethally remove sea lions preying on threatened and endangered salmon and steelhead in the Columbia River basin.
California sea lion numbers have grown rapidly since the 1970s and the species is now at "carrying capacity" – the highest level the environment can sustain – according to wildlife biologists. The U.S. population of California sea lions is currently estimated at some 300,000 animals, all on the Pacific coast. In the 1950s, the U.S. population of California sea lions estimated at 10,000 animals
In 2002, they observed 31 California sea lions consume 448 salmon and steelhead in the tailrace area, which extends about one-quarter mile below the dam. In 2017, by comparison, they documented 156 individual sea lions consuming an estimated 5,384 salmon and steelhead in the same area. In two days.
So they scared some of them to come north.
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
The United States recently rescinded a significant section of the Marine Mammal Protection Act 1972. That was done specifically to support their ongoing cull (a cull – not a harvest) of problematic sea lions on the Columbia River. That program has removed (culled) 9,000 sea lions (as of the end of March) via the 1,300 traps they have currently deployed.
Bryan Allen
Well-Known Member
I know the SFI is trying to balance the BS coming out of some of the anti-everything enviros. But we still seem to be losing the cuddly seal mis information they are peddling. The Tyee at times seems to be better balanced. Maybe a regular feed to them might help ????
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