Local Orcas and salmon...

Not sure if it was correct, but article stated the whales eat 670 fish per day ???
wow, extract that from our Chinook fishery and we'll be lucky to even get an opening :(
 
ya that amazed me, thats a ton of fish per orca a day?? wow... i dont know how accurate that is?
 
That's 1 salmon every 2 minutes of the day assuming the whales are moving and feeding 24hours a day...this is bogus, there is no way that is realistic.
 
food for thought here - they of course will assume its all our fault, but would they dare consider the fact that the seal population is excessive and accounts for huge takes in salmon? Dare they consider a cull for those cute puppy dog eyes salmon eating machines?

Obviously the 'numbers' are an estimate, but I find it interesting doing the crunch here: article put out by racerocks says 200k sea lions up and down the coast - average consumption 30 lb/day - that means they would be taking 2 billion pounds coastwide...harbour seals - 350k - they average 5lb a day - thats over 500 million lbs per year! We are talking 2.5 billion pounds of salmon taken by these damn things if the numbers are even close yet I'm sure us sport fishers will be the ones that get screwed, and it won't have 1 bit of an effect long term based on the sheer volume by the seals/sealions....goodie

I find it interesting that if the transients can enjoy a nice seal snack, why the hell can't the locals figure out, chit, I'm starving and there isn't enough salmon, maybe I should start working over some of those lard azzes that hang out on the rocks and stink the place up??? Thought nature was supposed to be able to adapt to the environment when it comes to survival. Silly whales!
 
Guys,
NEVER trust "mickey mouse" newspaper articles to give you accurate information!! Always read the source scientific article carefully (link provided above by Beemer). Research is done by qualified scientists and peer reviewed before is gets into print. UNLIKE newspaper articles.
If you do that you will see the 670 number is for the entire Southern resident whale population, NOT a single whale. Since there are 89 animals in the population this means they eat less than 10 a day each.....
Scientists are not stupid, but journalists often are....
 
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Well, as DFO has now opened the herring to try and kill the local stocks there will be less and less salmon very soon.
 
Maybe DFO could initiate a training program for local resident Orcas on eating those delicious local seals....Solve two problems with one activity. If they're good enough for transients, they're good enough for locals.
 
Well, I just finished reading that study! Good Luck on this one!

Before I address just a few things with it, I still suggest this is more than just about “Killer Whales” - but don't think that is going to make any differance!

Food for thought:
DFO basically “sold out” the WCVI Chinook fishery.
DFO reducing hatchery production of Chinook.
All WCVI Chinook in decline;
Fraser River Chinook in decline;
Cowichan Chinook in decline;
DFO establishment of the “over and under” rules – that was done to pretence to “protect” Canadian large returning four year olds runs. I used to actually believe that. Now I can only ask, if that was the real reason – why is DFO opening the mouth of every major WCVI fishery to “seine nets“? Nope – IMHO that was established for one reason – drive the sport fishery offshore to target those good ole’ U.S. Chinook!

Now consider this additional information:
DFO suggesting PST allocation of Fraser River Chinook, just for the Killer Whales. That will happen.
DFO recognizing priority of Chinook going to Subsistence Fishery;
DFO only enhancing and producing enough Chinook - as required, and by monies set within boundaries of the PST.
Last, and but by no means least; DFO publically stating, “Wild Pacific salmon have no value”!

Looking at just one section of the study:
"Clearly, the killer whale diet is not composed entirely of Chinook, so our “summer” estimate represents a more plausible summary of the various studies published to date.”

Yep, studies do completely support that Orca diet. Need more information on killer whale diet, one only needs to contact none other than “Alexandra Morton”! She was involved in that research project. At least, I am glad to see the words “summer” and “estimate” used in the following.

“ In summer months (May through September), 83% of the SRKW diet is composed of Chinook salmon, 90% of which are of Fraser River origin [18]. SRKWs are found in their core summer habitat on 79% of days from May–September [46]. We present plausible estimates of SRKW pressure on Fraser River Chinook stocks (“Summer” estimates in Table 1) by multiplying the annual energetic demand by 24.6% (namely 5/12 * 0.83 * 0.90 * 0.79). Depending on body size, the best estimate of the summer demand on Fraser River Chinook is 59,384 (range 42,000–97,600; Table 1). Depending on caloric value of Chinook and given the best estimate of body size, these lower, “summer” estimates may be as low as 52,000 and as high as 89,500 (Table 2) Fraser River Chinook consumed annually by SRKWs in core habitat in summer months."

All, with references!

"The above calculations can be used to estimate the proportion of the Fraser River Chinook salmon population that is consumed annually by SRKWs (see Methods). Average fisheries catch of Fraser River Chinook is 18,000 fish and average terminal run size is 300,000 [47]. These numbers suggest that SRKWs may consume 12% (42,000/(42,000+18,000+300,000)) to 23% (97,600/(97,600+18,000+300,000)) of available Fraser River Chinook in the region from May–September.”

Guess what, to me... Those number are actually believable. The only defense there is the... IF the only thing those Killer Whales did was set at the mouth of the Fraser and eat only the Fraser Chinook, which the don't.

“These estimates only include information available for the whales' core summertime habitat. Total abundance of Chinook may be higher than our estimates suggest because, north of the Salish Sea, Chinook salmon are harvested in commercial and sport fisheries, and by-caught in fisheries for other salmon. On the other hand, SRKWs spend little time there. We focus on the Salish Sea, because considering Chinook salmon availability in northern waters would require us also to consider the substantial demands for northern resident killer whales of Chinook salmon in that habitat.”

“Estimates” used two (2) more time – puts it up to a total of seven (7). Kind of looks “they” admit this study is incomplete and the information might be “skewed”, doesn’t it? Don't hold your breath on that one, can you say ESA!

“Our analyses suggest that takes of Fraser River Chinook by SRKWs may well exceed those from all fisheries in the Salish Sea. If the SRKW population reached 155 animals by 2029 (one recovery scenario reported in [31]), energetic requirements could become ~75% higher than those reported here.“

Yes, I agree! Through “their” analysis, it has been proven Killer Whales; while at the mouth of the Fraser River do indeed eat Fraser River Chinook. Guess what... It has also been shown during their different migration patterns they also eat Chinook from: Cowichan; the entire Puget Sound; and during winter months, the entire Columbia basin Chinook. BTW... That also includes the Snake River Chinook listed on the endangered species.

Those are the good thing "estimates" and "incomplete"! Here are your KILLERS:
Rob Williams 1, 2¤a*, Martin Krkošek 3, Erin Ashe 4¤b, Trevor A. Branch 5, Steve Clark 6, Philip S. Hammond 7, Erich Hoyt 8, Dawn P. Noren 9, David Rosen 10, Arliss Winship 11

1 University of Washington, Seattle, Washington, United States of America, 2 Marine Mammal Research Unit, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada, 3 Department of Zoology, University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand, 4 Oceans Initiative, Pearse Island, British Columbia, Canada, 5 School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington, United States of America, 6 SeaWorld, Orlando, Florida, United States of America, 7 Sea Mammal Research Unit, University of St. Andrews, St. Andrews, Scotland, United Kingdom, 8 Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society, North Berwick, Scotland, United Kingdom, 9 National Marine Fisheries Service, Northwest Fisheries Science Center, Marine Mammal & Seabird Program, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Seattle, Washington, United States of America, 10 Marine Mammal Research Unit, Fisheries Centre, Department of Zoology, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, 11 Life Sciences Centre, Department of Biology, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Pretty impressive! About the only thing I can ask is where and why isn't the most renouned and well known Orca researcher on the west coast (A. Morton) not on envolved with that list? Now, you have this:
[Citation: Williams R, Krkošek M, Ashe E, Branch TA, Clark S, et al. (2011) Competing Conservation Objectives for Predators and Prey: Estimating Killer Whale Prey Requirements for Chinook Salmon. PLoS ONE 6(11): e26738. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0026738

Editor: Mary O'Connor, University of British Columbia, Canada
Received: June 13, 2011; Accepted: October 2, 2011; Published: November 9, 2011

Copyright: © 2011 Williams et al. This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.

Funding: Funding was provided by the Canada-United States Fulbright program (RW) at University of Washington, The Russell Family Foundation, the British Columbia Marine Planning Fund and SeaWorld-Busch Gardens Conservation Fund, and a Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada Post Doctoral Fellowship (MK). The funders had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.

Competing interests: Steve Clark is an independent contractor to SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment, Inc. (SWPE). He does not have and is not pursuing any patents or products, either in development or marketed, as part of his relationship with SWPE, Inc. Furthermore, there are no relevant competing interests that would affect the objective review of this paper. SWPE provided data, but played no role in reviewing the science. The terms of his contract with SWPE, Inc. do not alter in any way adherence to policies related to sharing of data and material as described in PLoS ONE policies. The funders had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript.

* E-mail: rmcw@st-andrews.ac.uk
¤a Current address: Sea Mammal Research Unit, University of St. Andrews, Scotland, United Kingdom
¤b Current address: Sea Mammal Research Unit, University of St. Andrews, Scotland, United Kingdom
Now... Add all this to over 80% of WCVI and 90% of Victoria sport caught Chinook are already U.S. returning Chinook.

DFO's current actions and present position of denial of ISAv outbreaks?
DFO's present position of denial in support of saving the "fish farms" over wild salmon? DFO’s refusal to test "fish farms" for ISAv.
DFO "NOT" allowing "fish farms" to provide any third parties, INCLUDING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT samples to test for ISAv.!

It certainly does appear - DFO doesn’t need much more than this study to build their case (and justification) of shutting down any “sport fishery” in the name of “conservation” – at all! Now you not only have concerns with the BC Chinook populations, you also have a study tying in those concerns with an endangered species Orca diet! Gun is loaded and cocked! In just one word, you are... F*CKED . It is just a matter of time before DFO pulls that trigger! Of course, all of this is just - IMHO!
 
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Although i hate to admit it, what you say makes sense Charlie.
it's only a matter of time.
DFO does not want sports fishermen on the water, it only complicates their already confused existence. :(
 
I agree with Charlie on this. I can see substantial sport fishing restrictions to protect the Orca's coming about in a few years. Us sportfishers will have a tough job trying to state our case as I think that the general public will side with DFO to limit sport fishing activity to protect food source for Orca's and FN traditional rights before sport fishing access. Add to this existing habitat destruction, overfishing, climate change and now the possibility of the salmon ISA virus spreading widely to wild fish, well..... you get the picture....

Don't get me wrong I am not trying to be all doom and gloom - just realistic IMO. We need to wake up and get very active to protect our historical fishing rights and common property access to fish, or circumstances will take them away from us for good.

If there ever was a time for sportfishers, guides, lodges, and small businesses, etc. that rely on reasonable salmon fishing access to unite and fight for our rights - IT IS NOW!
 
In view of this situation, I am wondering what the DFO response may be to this study.
We already have early timed Fraser restrictions in place from March until mid June.
In my mind DFO are looking for ways to clear sport fishermen off the water.
What is the next step ?



  1. No chinook fishing period .
  2. Hatchery Chinook only all year
  3. extended restrictions with further closures


Anybody got any idea's what else they may come up with ?
 
In view of this situation, I am wondering what the DFO response may be to this study.
We already have early timed Fraser restrictions in place from March until mid June.
In my mind DFO are looking for ways to clear sport fishermen off the water.
What is the next step ?


  1. No chinook fishing period .
  2. Hatchery Chinook only all year
  3. extended restrictions with further closures

Anybody got any idea's what else they may come up with ?

I dunno, maybe we will end up with a very limited number of fish allocated for a lot of sportsfishers and end up with a limited entry system like they have for hunting moose, etc. If so, that will be a very sad day indeed!
 
It's all quite simple really..........this a First Nations problem to be dealt with by them.

When Luna appeared at Gold River, F.N. was quick to point out that Luna was the re-incarnated spirit of a deceased
aboriginal relative.
I take that to mean that ALL killer whales therefore are re-incarnated spirits of deceased aboriginals.

Therefore they must police themselves on this issue in regard to lowering the daily recommended RDA for dietary Chinook salmon, if they are part and parcel of the consultive process.
 
Maybe they will ban commercial fishing, while leaving our quotas untouched (or even increasing them)!

I know, not realistic but a man can dream...
 
In summer months (May through September), 83% of the SRKW diet is composed of Chinook salmon, 90% of which are of Fraser River origin [18]. SRKWs are found in their core summer habitat on 79% of days from May–September [46]. We present plausible estimates of SRKW pressure on Fraser River Chinook stocks (“Summer” estimates in Table 1) by multiplying the annual energetic demand by 24.6% (namely 5/12 * 0.83 * 0.90 * 0.79). Depending on body size, the best estimate of the summer demand on Fraser River Chinook is 59,384 (range 42,000–97,600; Table 1). Depending on caloric value of Chinook and given the best estimate of body size, these lower, “summer” estimates may be as low as 52,000 and as high as 89,500 (Table 2) Fraser River Chinook consumed annually by SRKWs in core habitat in summer months."

This paragraph is where a large part of this study falls apart. The fecal test area where they pickup the stool samples from killer whales are exclusively on the path of the incoming Fraser Chinook.Therefore the scientist have concluded they only eat Fraser salmon!! Why are the scientists not testing at swiftsure or further up the coast where the Killer Whales regularily steam during the summer?

SRKWs are found in their core summer habitat on 79% of days from May–September [46]. Give me a break!! As most of the Sooke boys know the different pods ,J,K,L and many of the subgroups that exist within these groups regularily steam in and out of the area. The scientists have taken a "fact" that SR Killer whales are present (off SanJuan Island) and applied it to the entire group.

This entire study is bad science produced to reach a political objective that will sit well with the majority (non-boating or fishing) public.

beemer
 
The problem with this would be it would a great excuse for lice farms to be increased in number and output.

H.E.H.


Maybe they will ban commercial fishing, while leaving our quotas untouched (or even increasing them)!

I know, not realistic but a man can dream...
 
"This entire study is bad science produced to reach a political objective that will sit well with the majority (non-boating or fishing) public."

beemer

You are entirely right beemer, that is why us sportfisher need to get are collective shyte together and fight this "bad science" with good science and common sense. If we don't formulate a intelligent and defensible response to this report and where "certain powers" are trying to push us we are going to be even more screwed. Is there anybody or group out there that would be willing to take this on? (e.g. SFAB, BCWF, BCSFI, ???)
 
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