Large Salmon
- Thread starter Theb55
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saanauk
Well-Known Member
All my fish over 30#s have been caugth on a cut plug. The only probably I find with using cut plug and 8 oz of lead is that if other people are around and fishing downriggers you don't seem to make to many friends by slowly motor mooching cut plugs. Seems like there are very few places that I fish where everyone is motor mooching cut plugs. Rivers Inlet is probably the only place.
An added benifit of just using cut plugs and weights is that I can fish 6 poles easily with 2 guys.
Finished Business
Well-Known Member
how choppy of a sea will you guys fish your cut plugs in?
It makes no sense why fish swimming by the charlettes are mostly caught on cut plug with no downriggers and 6 or 8 ozs of weight but when these same fish swim by Van Isle fisherman resort to downriggers and flashers and teaser heads and spoons and plugs and black boxes and no bananas on board and whatever other superstitions one can dream up.
When I was young we moved to Cold Lake Alta for a couple years and the first pike I caught came on a chunk of red cordiroy torn from the lining of my jacket and stuck on a hook When i moved to Whitehorse a few years ago everyone said the only thing to fish for greyling with was panther martins but I would catch all I wanted sitting on the bow of my boat with my flyrod and any fly I threw at them..
When I was young we moved to Cold Lake Alta for a couple years and the first pike I caught came on a chunk of red cordiroy torn from the lining of my jacket and stuck on a hook When i moved to Whitehorse a few years ago everyone said the only thing to fish for greyling with was panther martins but I would catch all I wanted sitting on the bow of my boat with my flyrod and any fly I threw at them..
Charlie
Well-Known Member
I have actually started writing a response to some posts on this thread, but every time someone else posts I keep adding to my response. Everything posted so far can actually be correct in certain areas and at certain times. If I keep adding to my response, soon I will have another book!
This comment is also correct. Chinook salmon will strike and try to swallow anything it thinks is food. The reason they mostly fish cut plugs off Haida Gwaii (aka Queen Charlotte Islands is nothing more than that is the way they have been taught and it works. When I first started fishing Chinook cut plug and a Point Wilson Dart is all I ever used and was successful. When Davis came out with the anchovy teaser heads, I soon found trolling them produced way more fish - most of the time. If you find a hole (back eddy), a cut plug is very effective on those large Chinook. If you slow to a motor mooch speed, with the right action on a teaser head you can get the same results (sometimes better) as that cut plug. And, both methods will produce and catch those larger Chinook holding in those areas. Which btw, those fish really aren't that lazy. Have you ever seen 40 or 50 pounds of Chinook litterly jump clear out of the water? I have, it just takes more energy for those larger fish to move and they do learn as they get larger it is easier to wait for dinner and that requires less energy than having to chase it down.
Tomic Plugs are very effective on the offshore banks, especially out of Nootka and especially for those three and four year-olds. The four year-old females will easily get you up to 35-40 pounds. But you probably won't be finding them on the bottom in 300 feet of water - they will be found suspended at different depths? While Chinook have been known to dive and have been tracked down to 350 meters (yes meters), depending on the time of day they will usually suspend somewhere in the top 90 feet of the water column. Very early morning (see my favorite fishing time) and other times they will often be right on the surface. The Tomics were designed for and have been used by the commercial fleet for years. I advice there - Lose the flasher, read and follow the directions especially when it comes to trolling speed!
Now with all that the percentage is probably closer to that 10 percent catch 90 percent of the fish. That would also include the larger ones. IMHO... If you want to consistently catch larger Chinook on the WCVI, you can start by learning your target. When, how, and where do they migrate. If you are in an area they normally don't migrate through it might be a little rough to catch a large one?
Then fish the right times. Chinook are most active and feed one hour prior (that is before) the sun comes up - not the official sunrise. Tie that in with a no current condition right before an incoming tide... and you have my favorite time for fishing for large Chinook. If by chance there happens to be a full moon and you don't have your large Chinook by breakfast - go eat breakfast with your fish and make sure you wave at everyone just going out! Just be back out to one of those honey holes fishing the end of that afternoon high.
The larger Chinook will normally be found closer to shore in around 80 feet of water around structure. Look for those crashing waves stiring up the bait fish. The larger Chinook like to hold in back eddies, especially close to kelp beds, eating all that bait fish. You will often find them close to the bottom and they will attack from the bottom up - they can't see down. They will dart out of kelp beds and you probably won't even see them on the sounder. Have no fear as, as soon as they hit that bait they will dart right back in that kelp! They also like to hide right under and in those scum (thrash) lines, especially offshore.
Personally as far as bait, I will be using the same David! That would be the 5 1/2 inch anchovy and it will be in an Anchovy Special or Crippled Anchoy. I really don't care what the color those teasers are, but I do prefer light green. On the WCVI (note that is on WCVI) you will only find me using red, green, and/or blue Hotspot flashers, or a combination of those colors. That is really all that is needed. It is a water condition and color spectrum thingy.
FYI... I cut my teeth on and am also very fine and quite comfortable, if the above isn't working or am in the mood to do something different, I will switch to either a Tomic Plug and/or a cut plug in a heart beat! While I do carry and fish hootchies and spoons, depending on the time of year I am fishing that is more a Victoria area and/or Puget Sound bait. If I am specifically targeting LARGE Chinook (not feeders or during the winter), you will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER see me fishing hootchies or spoons! And that is "IF" I am targeting and only after LARGE Chinook! It is all about finding that right ACTION and PRESENTATION for a specific target.
Now after that 2 cents worth... anyone really want to read the rest I just wrote for this thread?
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MyEscape
Active Member
This is a great thread with a wealth of information!
I have never really used to much bait due to my lack in confidence in getting the right roll but last season was introduced to the bullit roll teaser head. Put the bait in 5.5 achovie fan the tail and throw it in perfect drill bit roll. I also added a small trailing hook behind my triple wow landed a 37 and 38 off Esperanza and might I add they both came in hooked on the trailing hook. Before that any big fish I caught were on plugs.
The bullit roll teaser head I was using was bloody nose glow 70" behind a gold betsy flasher trolling slow.
Cheers ME
I have never really used to much bait due to my lack in confidence in getting the right roll but last season was introduced to the bullit roll teaser head. Put the bait in 5.5 achovie fan the tail and throw it in perfect drill bit roll. I also added a small trailing hook behind my triple wow landed a 37 and 38 off Esperanza and might I add they both came in hooked on the trailing hook. Before that any big fish I caught were on plugs.
The bullit roll teaser head I was using was bloody nose glow 70" behind a gold betsy flasher trolling slow.
Cheers ME
How do you take from "I have a couple of rolls that I use on larger fish that I cannot achieve with smaller baits" that I can't catch fish on smaller baits? I simply said without getting goated into being more specific about the rolls that smaller baits and larger baits cannot always be made to roll in exactly the same way. I have a couple of rolls that I know larger fish will take more often over others. Not exclusively, more often.....40 plus years of fishing has proven that to me. Trevor is basically saying the same thing. Once you find something that proves itself to work stick with it until it no longer does. This from my last post "I think any properly fished tackle and baits can and will catch larger fish...properly is the key word".
Red Monster
Well-Known Member
The guy who caught the 84 pounder in the Charlottes this past summer was not using cut plugs. On this forum it was stated, "So to answer your questions, we got it on a hearing in a teaser head with a tight roll. Fishing at 45 feet." So not everyone in the Charlottes uses cut plugs all the time. Some will also use down riggers but not many. I would if I had the choice. I was at Langara in July, and our guide was indeed cut plugging, and all I can say is you better have lots of money for lots of bait! You can go through over a 100 piece in one day without any problem. Anybody ever go through that many anchovies in a day? I bet trolling a big spoon or a Tomic plug would have a bit of success up there too.
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IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Indeed, a LOT of very useful information here!
Mulling all of that over, methinks Bananas got it best...
For myself and the way I fish would add that I haven't seen many real Biggies brought in behind a flasher (whether angling or commercial trolling) - seems to deter them somewhat over the other presentations. That, and although I do fish bait from time to time and have caught a few large with that, it is rare for me to do so. No need in my mind when plugs 'n spoons produce as well as they do. Less fuss, no mess, more forgiving as to range of speed, and WORKS!
BTW Charlie, Great Post as usual. Now Please... Bring On The Book!!
Cheers,
Nog
Mulling all of that over, methinks Bananas got it best...
For myself and the way I fish would add that I haven't seen many real Biggies brought in behind a flasher (whether angling or commercial trolling) - seems to deter them somewhat over the other presentations. That, and although I do fish bait from time to time and have caught a few large with that, it is rare for me to do so. No need in my mind when plugs 'n spoons produce as well as they do. Less fuss, no mess, more forgiving as to range of speed, and WORKS!
BTW Charlie, Great Post as usual. Now Please... Bring On The Book!!
Cheers,
Nog
Derby
Crew Member
Seafever
Well-Known Member
Big Chinook can move fast.....I watched them in a holding tank at the hatchery in late 2011.
Going from one end of the pool to the other......all following the first one that decided to go for a cruise.
They were not putting much effort into it but they were going a lot faster than average troll speed.
There were about 120 Chinook in this holding pond (which was fairly big). Of these there were a number of them way over 30lbs. Some looked to be a good 40lb.+
They had no trouble going "laid-back" fast at all. In fact it was surprising........
That said I have had some fairly decent fish hit when the presentation was doing absolutely nothing.....just one line down deep, hanging in the current while I was playing a fish on the other side.
I often use "Gun and Run"......where you slow right down to absolutely nothing and then spike it up to fast speed for a minute or so.
I think trolling at average speed for prolonged duration is not as good as changing the game up every now and then.
Going from one end of the pool to the other......all following the first one that decided to go for a cruise.
They were not putting much effort into it but they were going a lot faster than average troll speed.
There were about 120 Chinook in this holding pond (which was fairly big). Of these there were a number of them way over 30lbs. Some looked to be a good 40lb.+
They had no trouble going "laid-back" fast at all. In fact it was surprising........
That said I have had some fairly decent fish hit when the presentation was doing absolutely nothing.....just one line down deep, hanging in the current while I was playing a fish on the other side.
I often use "Gun and Run"......where you slow right down to absolutely nothing and then spike it up to fast speed for a minute or so.
I think trolling at average speed for prolonged duration is not as good as changing the game up every now and then.
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lorneparker1
Banned
Charlie
Well-Known Member
i think the real answer there, would be... Check how many packs each angler goes through each day, and the price they are paying verses what they are charging!
I fished there for years in the QCIs and have tried every method there is for catching salmon. I ran gear for years as well as anchovies and cut plugs, whole herring plug etc. The one bait that took more big fish hands down was the Cut plug followed closely by the whole herring. When fishing gear there would be the odd encounter with big fish but they would rarely exceed 40 lbs even when there were large numbers of them in the area. There is no doubt in my mind that you will catch more big fish (40+ pound chinook) with a slow trolled herring. They will hit other baits and lures but no as readily. They did not get that big chasing down timmys flasher hootchie combo. We could see up to 100 fifties caught in the area and maybe 2-4 of them were caught on gear even though many were running gear. If i had to pick the ultimate hawg bait would be a 6 inch herring in a teaser head fished naked of the rigger sloooooow tight to shore. I bet 95% of every 60 pound salmon on the coast would have been caught on some variation of a herring.
Lodges also are smart with the cut plug and weight combo regulation as it hugely cuts down on the cost they have to shell out for gear. As far as I know there is only a couple lodges that still enforce this. My lodge at the time was one of them but quickly got rid of that when the looked at the catch ratio of other options.
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