Killing too many fish.....

Sorry, i don't buy it....
If the best interests of the fish are really at heart
then a ban must mean a total ban.
No one user group should take priority.


fearnofishy-1-1.jpg
 
I don't by the idea of a total ban.
There needs to be a revamp of the fish farm industry because it's not working correctly.
I think the government should create thousands of new jobs employing the UNEMPLOYED.
Something could be said for starting at the bottom of the chain and (here's where I'll get some grief),we could get the homeless off the system,off their butts,and teach the ones who are capable how to do the job.
True I've got some out there points but I really believe that there are so many unemployed people in this country it's time we put them to use instead of giving them cheques every 2 weeks for what?....

So those of you who want to fire..fire away.

I'm at peace with my view. :)
 
I'm not sure if it is fair to say "they" stewarded the resource for thousands of years with no real consequence. The fact is, it wasn't until mondern days that provided the technology that could effectivley wipe out or ensure mass extinction of any fishery. Saying any one user group preserved it is not right in my mind. Simply put there just weren't as many people putting the pressure we now see. It is differant times now and sheer population is the culprit. WE ALL have to play our part in sustaining this precious resource.

One guy on a river catching a hundred fish a day cannot be called a conservationist just because the run obviously suffers little effect.

20,000 anglers on a river catching only two fish per day shouldn't be considered greedy.

It's sheer population.

See my point

Ceremonies or not, I'd say whats most important here. And beleive me, I am for all user groups when I say this. Actually I am for the fish.
 
Let's face it, people are the problem.... period.
doesn't matter what color you are, we all contribute to it.
If the resource was left untouched by man, there would be no problem.


Perfectly said Craven. This earth has been here fine for 100's of millions of years and some how we've messed it up pretty bad in the last century.
 
Funny how threads just run on...and....on and...on with no questions answered just blame put on the human race. [:I]
 
Ya-- but who else are ya going to blame??? Just us peons on this little rock in the middle of what seems to be the cosmos. After we have totally destroyed all our life support systems, like we seem to be hell-bent on doing.. fish wont matter much-- let alone who gets to kill them!!!

Anyway-- good the see Warren back. There are always two sides to every discussion/argument




20ft Alumaweld Intruder
 
quote:Originally posted by Cuba Libre

Ya-- but who else are ya going to blame??? Just us peons on this little rock in the middle of what seems to be the cosmos. After we have totally destroyed all our life support systems, like we seem to be hell-bent on doing.. fish wont matter much-- let alone who gets to kill them!!!

Anyway-- good the see Warren back. There are always two sides to every discussion/argument




20ft Alumaweld Intruder
Far out man..groovy vibes ya turning...nice ta dig some sasha nomba's...
;);) it's all good, :)
 
I've also heard the analogy that the human race most closely resembles that of a virus. We will consume everything in our path the ensure procreation.
 
Funny how food and ceremonial purposes means i can go buy a sockeye from a native for 15 bucks, but it's ilegal for me to fish it. That's the problem with the system. If it's a total ban, then it's for all user groups, because they all are exploiting the resource. Even the natives who have "monitored their fishery for thousands of years."
 
No Rico that fishery is Called "Food Soshall and Ceremonial.".

The soshall aspect of it is that if someone else is catching fish and selling it than soshall I.

Don't really agree with this type of fishery, perhaps this is the problem that you guys always talk about, but personally I don't fish like that and rather don't like being lumped in with a few bad apples so to say. When I go fishing it is to fill MY freezer.

I'd have no problem doing away with the "soshall" fishery, I think food and ceremonies just about covers all we really need.

quote:
One guy on a river catching a hundred fish a day cannot be called a conservationist just because the run obviously suffers little effect.

20,000 anglers on a river catching only two fish per day shouldn't be considered greedy.

It's sheer population.

See my point

So thats 40,000 fish caught by sporties and 100 by a native, and most blame him for the decline in stocks.. see my point?
 
quote:So thats 40,000 fish caught by sporties and 100 by a native, and most blame him for the decline in stocks.. see my point?
What are you smoking? There must be 1000 natives on the Fraser alone. If they each catch 100 fish that is 100 000 salmon. Not sure what your point is.
 
quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

No Rico that fishery is Called "Food Soshall and Ceremonial.".

The soshall aspect of it is that if someone else is catching fish and selling it than soshall I.

Don't really agree with this type of fishery, perhaps this is the problem that you guys always talk about, but personally I don't fish like that and rather don't like being lumped in with a few bad apples so to say. When I go fishing it is to fill MY freezer.

I'd have no problem doing away with the "soshall" fishery, I think food and ceremonies just about covers all we really need.

quote:
One guy on a river catching a hundred fish a day cannot be called a conservationist just because the run obviously suffers little effect.

20,000 anglers on a river catching only two fish per day shouldn't be considered greedy.

It's sheer population.

See my point

So thats 40,000 fish caught by sporties and 100 by a native, and most blame him for the decline in stocks.. see my point?


Please and I say "don't lump me in" either. I don't know you personally and it sounds as though between us we may just have the right idea. However in response I just don't see where one person needs 100 fish. Whereas I am only asking for two. Despite the 20 thousand other guys it is quite clear that it is a number thing. I am certain that it has lead to the demise of our once great fishery.

I assure you I am not naive enough to beleive that a single native is to blame for this mess. And I am sure you aren't either. It is pressure from all user groups that add up here. Please do not put words in my mouth.

NOBODY should be allowed anything of a resource that cannot handle any more loss.

.......and if it's because you think I have nothing to lose; you are very wrong. My family is as important as any one elses.

IMHO
 
quote:NOBODY should be allowed anything of a resource that cannot handle any more loss.

Then were talking compensation. At least now we are getting somewhere.
 
From Rods board-- relevant to the discussion:

quote:Fraser sockeye returns lowest in 50 years
Summer's run falls 60 per cent below the average, fisheries department says

Scott Simpson
Vancouver Sun


Tuesday, September 09, 2008


Fraser River sockeye returns appear to be at their lowest ebb in 50 years, Fisheries and Oceans Canada said Monday. This summer's returns are already the lowest in the four-year cycle of migrating Fraser-system sockeye, with an average return since 1958 of 4.4 million of the prized salmon on this cycle.

This year is 60 per cent below that amount -- 1.7 million fish -- fisheries department's salmon team leader, Paul Ryall, said in a telephone interview.

The parent group for this year's return, which migrated into the Fraser system and spawned in 2004, was similarly weak at about 1.9 million fish.

Other than a brief opening for commercial and recreational fishermen in July, and some catch by U.S. fishermen under the Pacific Salmon Treaty, the only appreciable fishing has been by first nations for food, societal and ceremonial purposes.

The commercial and sport fisheries were authorized when a brief July bump in migration created an impression that a major run had arrived off the southern coast of Vancouver Island.

But when it became evident that the run was in fact exceptionally weak, the department quickly shut the fishery down.

"It became clear that the fish just weren't there, and we closed any further commercial opportunities," Ryall said.

The department warned as long ago as December 2007 that this year's run would be exceptionally weak, based on a low number of fish -- 521,000 -- that made it back to spawning grounds four years ago to birth this year's run.

Poor marine survival is also considered a key factor for the continuing struggles of the species -- the survival rate for young salmon to mature to adulthood and return to spawn can run to five per cent, or even higher in a year in which the ocean is a lush, nourishing environment.

Ryall said the department estimates this year's run had a survival rate of only about one per cent from the time they hatched and migrated down to the ocean, to the time they made their way back to the river as adults.

It's not entirely clear what's causing the survival problem -- everything from climate change and shifting ocean currents to ocean acidification have been considered potential culprits.

What is certain is that both Alaskan and Russian sockeye populations are thriving even as B.C.'s struggle, and that Fraser sockeye also continue to exhibit unanticipated migratory behavior -- moving out of the ocean and into the Fraser River about five days earlier than usual.

There is a bit of good news in this -- for the fish, if not for the people who like to eat them.

In anticipating this year's weak run, the department consulted over a period of months with first nations living along the sockeye's migration area in the Strait of Georgia and Johnstone Strait, as well as aboriginals living along the Fraser itself, and commercial and sport groups -- bracing them in advance for a bad year.

In a typical year, first nations take 800,000 to one million sockeye out of the Fraser, but this year the department limited their fishing and they've only caught 400,000. As a consequence, the expected number of fish that will escape human predation and make it back to spawning grounds is about 1.2 million.

That's an improvement over the 50-year average escapement of 822,000.




20ft Alumaweld Intruder
 
quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

quote:NOBODY should be allowed anything of a resource that cannot handle any more loss.

Then were talking compensation. At least now we are getting somewhere.

With the idea that land and resources were something that our ancestors deemed reasonable to give away , I guess compensation is fair enough.

I still have a tricky time understanding how any family for example on this earth ant any time in history was given rights to land or anything else for that matter. 1000's of acres still owned by people to this day because, what, they were here first. I am bitter over the fact that I could use an acre of land but it is going to cost me several hundred thousand dollars to get it nowadays. People would say chalk it up. We all are in the same boat. Well ,aren't we? Fish included? We all bear the burden of responsibility on this project. We all fish it . We all should manage it. Compensation in dated terms seems fair at first glance but if dissected it is as antiquated as the whole giveaway was in the first place. No?
 
PS

Fish assassin........ don't get me wrong here. I am all for joining forces and salvaging this thing. For you, for me, and all of our families.

Hope you agree on that note at least.

HL
 
quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin


Then were talking compensation. At least now we are getting somewhere.

compensation for what ??
the salmon don't belong to you or anyone else.
they are a natural resource fished to exhaustion by all groups.
just because your ancestor's were here first does not give you ownership.


fearnofishy-1-1.jpg
 
My ancestors used to fish these rivers and oceans also! (spanish descent). Does that mean i get compensation too? Where can i cash my cheque? I don't agree with always looking for compensation at all. These fish never belonged to natives, they just lived there also.
 
Compensation=B.S. for any user group this is real life learn to adapt.

I totally agree with an all user group ban. It is probably the only possible way to keep the salmon stokcs alive.

If the natives want respect and fish for thier traditional celebrations I can respect that only if they fish with spears like there fore fathers did risking thier bodies & lives for thier families and thier traditions. This does not include outboard motors, boats, gill nets or any other modern means.

The only boats that should be aloud are hand dug out conoes like the fore fathers traditionaly made.

If a native is caught selling his catch his fishing rights should be stripped for life and fined.

If we could all agree to shut down fishing and the natives agreed to
those rules I think we could make some progress and earn each others respect.

Now fire away boys.......
 
Honouring traditional ceremonies by traditional means is very reasonable. I totally agree. Look at those guys on OLN that recreate situations that the pioneers endured. Down to a tee, they want everything simulated traditionally. I would think the Natives and the pride they demonstrate for their heritage, would include traditional means of harvesting the fish for ceremonial purposes.

As for stripping anyone of fishing privileges for life, well, that is a bit of a stretch. We don't treat any ayone with that type of strict authority.Called for or not, we just don't see it within the Canadian criminal code. For any offence let alone fishing.
 
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