Important Chinook Information - Feedback Required

Derby said:
You would have been able to see the Really big difference the Lack of DNA that 19/20 has really hurt you guys in that area.
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I did it 3 years ago with the understanding that we would have meetings etc to discuss how it went etc and you know what ZIIIPPPPP then they came back AFTER they had all the dna from that year they suckered us to do to ,,,,oh wait more restrictions so they DO NOT repeat DO NOT follow the science behind it all ...out of the 90- or so samples that I got only 3 were from the upper fraser alot were from a river in the states called the Soo or something like that most were from the states ..So that was twice they got me and you know what now we dont have to worry about it as it is quite apparent they dont give a **** about us.

I said many years ago this was coming and even 2 years ago it has nothing to do with whales or salmon its about one thing and one thing only THAT PIPELINE as the announcement other day basically in a nut shell harming the whales is a small sacrifice for the rest of Canada.

I am however thankful that the people fighting(derby,SV,searun and many others) this I do wish you all the best as its going to be a hard battle ahead.
personally I dont see a future in it anymore as its sliding down a slippery slope.
 
I would like to add. We have two days. Just two days left. Please I am personally asking all of you and that goes same for people than never post send your letter.

You have no idea that the numbers matter. The quality of letters do matter.

Really spend time on it put a dollar value on it. Just to share we do know dfo is reading them.

Please guys dont fight about areas about who gets this and who gets that. We are all in this together. All areas are equally as important

I am trying to stay positive and it makes me upset reading some of these posts. It feels like most are just putting up the white flag. This fishery is very important and don't let the government change that.
 
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SpringVelocity said:
I would like to add. We have two days. Just two days left. Please I am personally asking all of you and that goes same for people than never post send your letter.

You have no idea that the numbers matter. The quality of letters for matter.

Really spend time on it put a dollar value on it. Just to share we do know dfo is reading them.

Please guys dont fight about areas about who gets this and who gets that. We are all in this together. All areas are equally as important

I am trying to stay positive and it makes me upset reading some of these posts. It feels like most are just putting up the white flag. This fishery is very important and don't let the government change that.
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Well said SpringVelocity. I also encourage everyone to send a copy of their email to their MP.
 
wildmanyeah said:
I thought 700 letters was actually pretty good, from what I've herd a lot of sports fishing topics are typically less then 100.

No one pays much attention in the off season, well expect the people on this fourm in the winter were wild!
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That's ridiculous guys. My self and 2 other Albertans who sent letters. We are in a different time zone we are so far away, but still care enough to support our passion and fellow fisherman and business who survive off this.

Honestly I wouldn't be suprised if a number of members on this forum sent in letters of support. This form gas many members who contribute nothing regarding fishing and only push their idea of an Enviro religion down our thoughts. I Honestly dont even think they fish. Who am I referring to? Well let's just say they rhyme with Kaliforina
 
I personally provided log book data every year I was approached. I believe 40% of the Serious guides in my area did fill out log books, I could be wrong there. The question is are log books really the answer, or just another stalling tactic used by a department that does not wish to admit they neither can nor know how to address the salmon situation.

We were told for around five years, that the Nanaimo area did not have restrictions because their log book and DNA data was very good and showed little impact. I was told this personally myself by a ranking member of a very large sport fishing advocacy group. Now that fishery is on The Chopping Block.

What do you think the chances are of the s f a b carrying a motion that mandatory catch recording and Reporting is a condition of the tidal waters license? For the last 10 years we have been told our data is not good enough. If this were any other government Department, changes would be made to get some reliable data.

What do you think? Could the higher-ups take this motion to the department and have them put their money where their mouth is? Mandatory reporting as a condition of the title water license, with a penalty being a hefty fine to be paid before renewing next year.

At the current rate DFO is going, we will be closed for fishing, and then they will have no catch data. They can stand there at Stanley Park on a pile of bird droppings with coded wire tags, watching starving sea lions eating the last of the returning salmon and wonder what happened.

This is neither a dig nor criticism of the volunteer groups and for-profit groups representing our Coast. This is just my thoughts on a last-ditch effort to keep a fishery open by providing something the department claims that it needs, which is data. Not a single guide in my area who has been participating in the logbook program has shown any significant interception of Fraser River fish, if that data is not good enough, then I think Perhaps it is time for those who have the years of the department to suggest mandatory reporting.
 
Last Chance said:
I personally provided log book data every year I was approached. I believe 40% of the Serious guides in my area did fill out log books, I could be wrong there. The question is are log books really the answer, or just another stalling tactic used by a department that does not wish to admit they neither can nor know how to address the salmon situation.

We were told for around five years, that the Nanaimo area did not have restrictions because their log book and DNA data was very good and showed little impact. I was told this personally myself by a ranking member of a very large sport fishing advocacy group. Now that fishery is on The Chopping Block.

What do you think the chances are of the s f a b carrying a motion that mandatory catch recording and Reporting is a condition of the tidal waters license? For the last 10 years we have been told our data is not good enough. If this were any other government Department, changes would be made to get some reliable data.

What do you think? Could the higher-ups take this motion to the department and have them put their money where their mouth is? Mandatory reporting as a condition of the title water license, with a penalty being a hefty fine to be paid before renewing next year.

At the current rate DFO is going, we will be closed for fishing, and then they will have no catch data. They can stand there at Stanley Park on a pile of bird droppings with coded wire tags, watching starving sea lions eating the last of the returning salmon and wonder what happened.

This is neither a dig nor criticism of the volunteer groups and for-profit groups representing our Coast. This is just my thoughts on a last-ditch effort to keep a fishery open by providing something the department claims that it needs, which is data. Not a single guide in my area who has been participating in the logbook program has shown any significant interception of Fraser River fish, if that data is not good enough, then I think Perhaps it is time for those who have the years of the department to suggest mandatory reporting.
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I suggest you bring this to the attention of your local media. The data you speak of is important for making management decisions and DFO is ignoring it.
 
I would be happy to submit a sample of every fish retained for DNA analysis. Every lodge (and guide) should do the same. Maybe SFI could provide envelopes for returning samples (1x per year would be fine....send them all at once).

I would think there is a university in the province that would be happy to partner with SFI (DFO?) to receive and analyze the data. Leverage the cheap / free labour of students and make it an ongoing program.

Something like @Bugs is doing with stomach samples.

I would suspect this program would be quite desirable for students / professors given the publicity of it.
 
That 700 letters may just be another DFO BS to play their games on us. I have no trust in the integrity of the organization any more. With the political **** show that’s going on ib Ottawa and this being an election year, we should all resend our emails tonight and cc our MPs.
TONIGHT!
 
BCRingo said:
That 700 letters may just be another DFO BS to play their games on us. With the political **** show that’s going on ib Ottawa and this being an election year, we should all resend our emails tonight and cc our MPs.
TONIGHT!
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How do you not believe it, look at how many people donated to the go fund me page....and just so you know the DFO emploees would have to retards to lie about something that you can get though an FOI request A tool first nations use all the time with DFO.....
 
wildmanyeah said:
How do you not believe it, look at how many people donated to the go fund me page....and just so you know the DFO emploees would have to retards to lie about something that you can get though an FOI request A tool first nations use all the time with DFO.....
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You do the FOI request and you’ll get a chopped out answer in 1 year from niw. BTW, until that 700 letters hasn’t been disclosed in an official communication, no one’ss a*s would be on fire.
 
Last Chance said:
I personally provided log book data every year I was approached. I believe 40% of the Serious guides in my area did fill out log books, I could be wrong there. The question is are log books really the answer, or just another stalling tactic used by a department that does not wish to admit they neither can nor know how to address the salmon situation.

We were told for around five years, that the Nanaimo area did not have restrictions because their log book and DNA data was very good and showed little impact. I was told this personally myself by a ranking member of a very large sport fishing advocacy group. Now that fishery is on The Chopping Block.

What do you think the chances are of the s f a b carrying a motion that mandatory catch recording and Reporting is a condition of the tidal waters license? For the last 10 years we have been told our data is not good enough. If this were any other government Department, changes would be made to get some reliable data.

What do you think? Could the higher-ups take this motion to the department and have them put their money where their mouth is? Mandatory reporting as a condition of the title water license, with a penalty being a hefty fine to be paid before renewing next year.

At the current rate DFO is going, we will be closed for fishing, and then they will have no catch data. They can stand there at Stanley Park on a pile of bird droppings with coded wire tags, watching starving sea lions eating the last of the returning salmon and wonder what happened.

This is neither a dig nor criticism of the volunteer groups and for-profit groups representing our Coast. This is just my thoughts on a last-ditch effort to keep a fishery open by providing something the department claims that it needs, which is data. Not a single guide in my area who has been participating in the logbook program has shown any significant interception of Fraser River fish, if that data is not good enough, then I think Perhaps it is time for those who have the years of the department to suggest mandatory reporting.
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lots of moving parts in that post... Area 17 has good DNA.. Area 17 is on the block not because of interior Chinook encounters but for the lower Fraser Chinooks ...unlike 19/20 your area is upper Fraser S2 Chinook migrate encounters but pretty much no lower fraser chinooks.... i'll pm you my number ..call me tomorrow
 
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Derby said:
lots of moving parts in that post... Area 17 has good DNA.. 17 is on the block not because of interior Chinook but lower Fraser Chinooks unlike 19/20 your area is upper Fraser S2 Chinook migrate in your area pretty much no lower fraser chinooks.... i'll pm you my number ..call me tomorrow
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and the conservation status of lower fraser chinooks is vastly different then upper fraser. Lower fraser made brood numbers in 2018. Upper fraser was like a fraction of the brood.

Lower fraser is also supported by 3 different hatcheries that all support the SOG fishery.

Bon Chovy has posted their DNA result and heads a few times, you can look at it for area 29. No upper fraser.....
 
Last Chance said:
I personally provided log book data every year I was approached. I believe 40% of the Serious guides in my area did fill out log books, I could be wrong there. The question is are log books really the answer, or just another stalling tactic used by a department that does not wish to admit they neither can nor know how to address the salmon situation.

We were told for around five years, that the Nanaimo area did not have restrictions because their log book and DNA data was very good and showed little impact. I was told this personally myself by a ranking member of a very large sport fishing advocacy group. Now that fishery is on The Chopping Block.

What do you think the chances are of the s f a b carrying a motion that mandatory catch recording and Reporting is a condition of the tidal waters license? For the last 10 years we have been told our data is not good enough. If this were any other government Department, changes would be made to get some reliable data.

What do you think? Could the higher-ups take this motion to the department and have them put their money where their mouth is? Mandatory reporting as a condition of the title water license, with a penalty being a hefty fine to be paid before renewing next year.

At the current rate DFO is going, we will be closed for fishing, and then they will have no catch data. They can stand there at Stanley Park on a pile of bird droppings with coded wire tags, watching starving sea lions eating the last of the returning salmon and wonder what happened.

This is neither a dig nor criticism of the volunteer groups and for-profit groups representing our Coast. This is just my thoughts on a last-ditch effort to keep a fishery open by providing something the department claims that it needs, which is data. Not a single guide in my area who has been participating in the logbook program has shown any significant interception of Fraser River fish, if that data is not good enough, then I think Perhaps it is time for those who have the years of the department to suggest mandatory reporting.
Click to expand...

I hoped you connected with Derby. I can tell you 4 years ago I thought exactly as you did. It is the danger of living in south island looking only at the Malahat sign as the end of the island, and not looking at the complete picture that happens in other areas.

Guides need to collect DNA data mandatory, and anglers need to move to an avid angler volunteer DNA program. I think what you are saying is simply trust issues with DFO that stems, and is seeded by your past reps. Of course it doesn't also help with what is going on now. Rightfully so, but it is showing it doesn't work.

We need to move on from what happened 15 years ago in south island, and the past. I am just as upset as you are how things that happened in that area.

Our Nanaimo DNA data is way more extensive than your area. There is no reason you can't have the same. The more accurate the number the more teeth we have to push back. As Derby says you should have gone to the SFI meeting where they talked about this data.

Again you are allowed to feel this way, but it helps us more with people are participating with proper DNA data. We have to try.
 
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SpringVelocity said:
I hoped you connected with Derby. I can tell you 4 years ago I thought exactly as you did. It is the danger of living in south island looking only at the Malahat sign as the end of the island, and not looking at the complete picture that happens in other areas.

Guides need to collect DNA data mandatory, and anglers need to move to an avid angler volunteer DNA program. I think what you are saying is simply trust issues with DFO that stems, and is seeded by your past reps. Of course it doesn't also help wuth what is going on now. Rightfully so, but it is showing it doesn't work.

We need to move on from what happened 15 years ago in south island, and the past. I am just as upset as you are how things that happened in that area.

Our Nanaimo DNA data is way more extensive than your area. There is no reason you can't have the same. The more accurate the number the more teeth we have to push back. As Derby says you should have gone to the SFI meeting where they talked about this data.

Again you are allowed to feel this, but it helps us more with proper DNA data. We have to try.
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How do we participate in the Avid Angler program?
 
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