How to wire a "two batteries with switch" setup

FishBear

Active Member
Are there basically two schools of thought about this?

1. Two Marine/RV batteries hooked to a switch with engines and electronics all wired together. In this way there is always a (theoretically) fully charged batetry in reserve and the switch is used to make sure either battery can be charged.

2. One starter battery for the engines and a deep cycle battery for the electronics. Switch is used to charge one battery at a time.

Is this about right? Or are there other combinations preferred?

Thanks for any input.
 
It should be one starting battery and one (or more) house batteries (deep cycle). All the electronics should run into the switch's main power out. Then the starting battery is wired to switch position #1 and the deep cycle is wired to switch position #2.

Assuming the switch you have has the options for #1,#2, Both, off you would use it as below.

Switch to #1 to start your motors. This way the starting battery provides the high current to start the motors.

When the motors are warmed up and you are ready to go switch to the "Both" position. This will charge both batteries as you are cruising.

When you get your location or you stop to fish or troll switch to position #2. This way if you somehow kill the house battery while fishing/trolling/anchored you will still have the fully charged starting battery to start your motors when you leave.
 
Excellent explanation trendsetter! Just make sure you switch to battery 2 while your engine is running....;)
 
I don't think you can switch while running

It depends on your switch. If your switch is "make before break" then you can switch while running. This means the switch makes the connection to the next position before breaking the connection from the current position. Most good quality switch are of this type.

Never switch to off while the motors are running with any switch.
 
True most switches are "make before break" so you can switch while running. If you don't switch while you are running then you run the risk of having battery issues. Consider Trendsetters switch routine. You are now running on ALL while you run out to your fishing spot. The boat had started on 1 ......but it may have been weak but not noticible and now is not charging and weaker from starting the boat. You shut down your motor and decide to switch to 2 to run your gear. You just pulled your batteries to the same potential ......which will be the weakest battery......now you have two weak batteries and maybe too flat to start your motor again? Happened to me once before.....luckily at the dock! lol But I learned my lesson......If you follow this routine than short of a major happening you should always have jam to get home.......:)
 
Reelslim makes an interesting point. However the idea of switching to both batteries while running is to charge both batteries from the main motor. When you switch to both then the batteries are combined in parallel and would both be receiving a charge from the motor. Electricity follows the path of least resistance so the starting battery would be charged and brought to an equal voltage of the deep cycle.

It's always a good idea to keep your batteries charged with a good onboard charger when you are at the dock or on the trailer at home.
 
When the motors are warmed up and you are ready to go switch to the "Both" position. This will charge both batteries as you are cruising.

ALL the newer switches cam be turned from the different positions. The reason you don't want to turn to the "off" position is it "may" (but not necessarily) blow your boat charging system.

I would not advise ever running on "both" position, for any reason. "Both" is to be only used to start an engine when there is not enough charge left in either battery for the start. They will even state that in their instructions! That is the only thing "both" is designed to do!!!!

Yes, you put charge to both batteries; however, why do you really even want to do that? It is far better to charge one battery at a time. If you are trying to charge both at once... it will take twice as long to charge each battery. And that is with each only getting one half the charge - that is best case! Worst case - one battery will receive an over charge resulting in battery failure. Don't think so? Start looking for those bulging sides on those batteries. That isn't from old age - that is from running them dry and from over charging! Then you are paralleling the batteries in "both" so the batteries will constantly be equalizing. Which will drain the fully charged battery to the others lower level. If one battery goes bad (which will probably be your starting battery) it will drain the other good battery, very quickly.

You NEVER NEVER want to charge two different types of batteries ("starting" and "deep cycle") nor do you want to even charge the same type of batteries that are at different states (e.g. one fully charged and one drained) at the same time from your boat charging system, EVER! You are just asking for that "over charge"! IT WILL CAUSE BATTERY DAMAGE LEADING TO FAILURE!!!!!!!! However, there are battery charges and some system capable of doing that - chances are unless you have added something, yours is not!
 
Agree with Charlie.

On our summer-long cruises of BC and SE Alaska, our routine is just as simple as trendsetter's, but slightly different. Switch to Start batteries to start engine, run this way for 10-15 minutes until start batts are recharged, then switch to House batts and leave switch there until the next time we need to start engine. Our AGM house bank just finished its 11th summer, and is still good.

Almost never use Both - only when it's the only way to have enough juice to get started.

As Charlie said, charging both at the same time (particularly if they're different types, such as deep cycle and starting) is bad for the batteries. But also - you expose yourself to the possibility of having NO batteries capable of starting, if your charging system or wiring has problems when you're running on Both, or if you forget and leave the switch on Both with the engine shut down.
 
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When I installed my switch I was told to start in position 1 (starting batt) run on both (to charge both batts) and fish on 2 (back up batt). Both my batteries are starters so I can start on batt 1 or 2. Only been running like this for a year and so far no problems. I also have my kicker set up to charge so even if I did somehow drain both batteries the kicker should supply enough charge to start the main motor from either battery. I will probably replace my 2nd starter batt with a deep cycle when the time comes but for now it still has life so I am using it until it is finished.
 
Charlie makes some good points and yes I agree if one battery is completely dead you should not combine the two to charge.

Unless you have a motor from pre-mid eighties then your outboard will have a fully regulated charging system. That means it will not bring the voltage above 14.2 - 14.6 volts and overcharge the batteries. When you connect batteries in parallel the voltage will equalize between the two. As long as both batteries are kept in good condition and not overly discharged its perfectly fine to charge this way.

I've been running this way for years without any problems. I use a group 29 starting battery and a group 31 deep cycle. You may have some issues if you have a very small starting battery (group 24 or less) and a very large deep cycle (8D). It's not a one solution fits all type of deal.

The reason I like to charge on both while running is to keep both batteries near 100% charge as often as possible. Batteries live longer when they are kept charged.

Cheers!
 
Most boat charging systems are designed to turn the charge off when the system tells it the battery is charged. The problem comes when two batteries are on line being charged by the same system, at the same time. The system (unless something has been added) can only read the status of "one" battery. If the battery being read happens to be the one not fully charged the boats charging system will continue to charge possibly creating an over charge to the one battery. If only done for a few minutes, probably won't hurt it; however, if that is done for a period of time (and only that individual battery knows for sure), just look for the battery that is starting to bulge on the sides! Sooner or later - you will see it. When you see a battery bulging on the sides, don't even bother testing it - just go ahead and replace it! Yes, I have replaced batteries in the past, just for that very reason.

Cheers!
 
When you connect two batteries in parallel they become one single unit as far as the regulator is concerned. The voltage will begin to equalize between the two batteries even before the charge is applied. It doesn't read the charge state of one battery, it reads the combined charge state of the two batteries.

A fully charged 12v battery has a resting voltage of 12.7 - 12.8 volts. The charging system will attempt to bring the voltage up to 14.2 - 14.6 volts before it cuts off the charge. Both batteries will be charged at the same time with the battery with the lowest charge accepting the bulk of the current.

If you get a battery that is bulging during charge then either it has been damaged, sulfate has built up on the plates or is shorting out internally. It could also be that the battery is too small for the output of your regulator. The other possibility is that your charging system is not properly regulated and that is causing the overcharge.

The rectifier/regulator system in 99% of outboards are very simple things. They don't follow different charge profiles for deep cycle, starting, AGM batteries etc. The simply use a bulk charge profile that brings voltage up to 14.2 - 14.6 volts then regulates down around 13.6v (on some regulators). The amount of current (amps) is governed by the RPM of the motor. So if it's ok to charge your deep cycle battery with an outboard regulator it's ok to charge it in parallel with a starting battery. It will follow the same charge profile regardless of what batteries are connected.
 
Battery charging takes place in 3 basic stages: Bulk, Absorption, and Float.

Bulk Charge - The first stage of 3-stage battery charging. Current is sent to batteries at the maximum safe rate they will accept until voltage rises to near(80-90%) full charge level. Voltages at this stage typically range from 10.5volts to 15 volts. There is no "correct" voltage for bulk charging,but there may be limits on the maximum current that the battery and/or wiring can take.

Absorption Charge: The 2nd stage of 3-stage battery charging. Voltage remains constant and current gradually tapers off as internal resistance increases during charging.It is during this stage that the charger puts out maximum voltage. Voltages at this stage are typically around 14.2 to 15.5 volts.

Float Charge: The 3rd stage of 3-stage battery charging. After batteries reach full charge, charging voltage is reduced to a lower level (typically 12.8 to 13.2)to reduce gassing and prolong battery life. This is often referred to as a maintenance or trickle charge, since it's main purpose is to keep an already charged battery from discharging. PWM, or "pulse width modulation "accomplishes the same thing. In PWM, the controller or charger senses tiny voltage drops in the battery and sends very short charging cycles (pulses) to the battery. This may occur several hundred times per minute. It is called "pulse width" because the width of the pulses may vary from a few microseconds to several seconds. Note that for long term float service, such as backup power systems that are seldom discharged, the float voltage should be around 13.02 to 13.20 volts.

Chargers: Most garage and consumer (automotive) type battery chargers are bulk charge only, and have little (if any) voltage regulation. They are fine for a quick boost to low batteries, but not to leave on for long periods. Among the regulated chargers, there are the voltage regulated ones, such as Iota Engineering and Todd, which keep a constant regulated voltage on the batteries. If these are set to the correct voltages for your batteries, they will keep the batteries charged without damage. These are sometimes called "taper charge" - as if that is a selling point. What taper charge really means is that as the battery gets charged up, the voltage goes up, so the amps out of the charger goes down. They charge OK, but a charger rated at 20 amps may only be supplying 5 amps when the batteries are 80% charged. To get around this, Statpower (and maybe others?) have come out with "smart", or multi-stage chargers. These use a variable voltage to keep the charging amps much more constant for faster charging.

We carry the IotaEngineering battery chargers and the URL="http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/statpower_truecharge.htm"]StatpowerTruecharge[/URL] "smart" chargers.

Charge controllers
A charge controller is a regulator that goes between the solar panels and the batteries. Regulators for solar systems are designed to keep the batteries charged at peak without overcharging. Meters for Amps (from the panels) and battery Volts are optional with most types. Some of the various brands and models that we use and recommend are listed below. Note that a couple of them are listed as "power trackers" - for a full explanation of this, see our page on "Why120 watts does not equal 120 watts".

Most of the modern controllers have automatic or manual equalization built in, and many have a LOAD output. There is no "best" controller for all applications - some systems may need the bells and whistles of the more expensive controls, others may not.

These are some of the charge controllers that we recommend, but almost any modern controller will work fine. Exact model will depend on application and system size and voltage.

Xantrex(All)
Morningstar (All)
Outback Power MX60 & 80
Blue Sky Energy (Solar Boost)
Apollo
Steca

Using any of these will almost always give better battery life and charge than"on-off" or simple shunt type regulators.

BatteryCharging Voltages and Currents:
Most flooded batteries should be charged at no more than the "C/8" rate for any sustained period. "C/8" is the battery capacity at the 20-hour rate divided by 8. For a 220 AH battery, this would equal 26 Amps. Gelled cells should be charged at no more than the C/20 rate, or 5% of their amp-hour capacity. The Concorde AGM batteries are a special case - they can be charged at up the the Cx4 rate, or 400% of the capacity for the bulk charge cycle. However, since very few battery cables can take that much current, we don't recommend you try this at home. To avoid cable overheating, you should stick toC/4 or less.

Charging at 15.5 volts will give you a 100% charge on Lead-Acid batteries. Once the charging voltage reaches 2.583 volts per cell, charging should stop or be reduced to a trickle charge. Note that flooded batteries MUST bubble (gas) somewhat to insure a full charge, and to mix the electrolyte. Float voltage for Lead-Acid batteries should be about 2.15 to 2.23 volts per cell, or about 12.9-13.4 volts for a 12 volt battery. At higher temperatures (over 85 degrees F) this should be reduced to about 2.10 volts per cell.

Never add acid to a battery except to replace spilled liquid. Distilled or deionized water should be used to top off non-sealed batteries. Float and charging voltages for gelled batteries are usually about 2/10th volt less than for flooded to reduce water loss. Note that many shunt-type charge controllers sold for solar systems will NOT give you a full charge - check the specifications first. To get a full charge, you must continue to apply a current after the battery voltage reaches the cutoff point of most of these type of controllers. This is why we recommend the charge controls and battery chargers listed in the sections above. Not all shunt type controllers are 100% on or off, but most are.

Flooded battery life can be extended if an equalizing charge is applied every 10 to 40 days. This is a charge that is about 10% higher than normal full charge voltage, and is applied for about 2 to 16 hours. This makes sure that all thec ells are equally charged, and the gas bubbles mix the electrolyte. If the liquid in standard wet cells is not mixed, the electrolyte becomes "stratified". You can have very strong solution at the top, and very weak at the bottom of the cell. With stratification, you can test a battery with a hydrometer and get readings that are quite a ways off. If you cannot equalize for some reason, you should let the battery sit for at least 24 hours and then use the hydrometer. AGM and gelled should be equalized 2-4 times a year at most - check the manufacturers recommendations, especially on gelled.

Battery Aging
As batteries age, their maintenance requirements change. This means longer charging time and/or higher finish rate (higher amperage at the end of thec harge). Usually older batteries need to be watered more often. And, their capacity decreases.

MiniFactoids
Nearly all batteries will not reach full capacity until cycled 10-30 times. A brand new battery will have a capacity of about 5-10% less than the rated capacity.

Batteries should be watered after charging unless the plates are exposed, then add just enough water to cover the plates. After a full charge, the water level should be even in all cells and usually 1/4" to 1/2" below the bottom of the fill well in the cell (depends on battery size and type).

In situations where multiple batteries are connected in series, parallel or series/parallel, replacement batteries should be the same size, type and manufacturer (if possible). Age and usage level should be the same as the companion batteries. Do not put a new battery in a pack which is more than 6months old or has more than 75 cycles. Either replace with all new or use a good used battery. For long life batteries, such as the Surrette and Crown, you can have up to a one year age difference.

The vent caps on flooded batteries should remain on the battery while charging. This prevents a lot of the water loss and splashing that may occur when they are bubbling.

When you first buy a new set of flooded (wet) batteries, you should fully charge and equalize them, and then take a hydrometer reading for future reference. Since not all batteries have exactly the same acid strength, this will give you a baseline for future readings.

When using a small solar panel to keep a float (maintenance) charge on a battery (without using a charge controller), choose a panel that will give a maximum output of about 1/300th to 1/1000th of the amp-hour capacity. For a pair of golf cart batteries, that would be about a 1 to 5 watt panel - the smaller panel if you get 5 or more hours of sun per day, the larger one for those long cloudy winter days in the Northeast.
 
Lots of good info there about batteries and charging. The rectifier/regulator unit on outboards is a bulk charger only which regulates down to a float charge when the battery is full.

When they talk about using batteries as similar as possible in series/parallel combinations they are talking about building a battery bank. For example you wouldn't want to mix an old and new battery in parallel to be used as your house battery on a boat (or solar farm for that matter).

I stand by my original comment that it's ok to charge a starting and deep cycle battery in parallel on your boat. If you've got the batteries at home in your shop and a smart charger handy then by all means, charge them separately using the appropriate charge profile for each.

Cheers!:)
 
Lead-Acid batteries do NOT have a memory, and the rumor that they should be fully discharged to avoid this "memory" is totally false and will lead to early battery failure.

Inactivity can be extremely harmful to a battery. It is a VERY poor idea to buy new batteries and "save" them for later. Either buy them when you need them, or keep them on a continual trickle charge. The best thing - if you buy them, use them.


Only clean water should be used for cleaning the outside of batteries. Solvents or spray cleaners should not be used.

Some Peukert Exponent values (not complete, just for info). We don't have a lot of data. Trojan T-105 = 1.25; Optima 750S =1.109; US Battery 2200 = 1.20.

More information - Manufacturers Websites

USBattery Manufacturing Company - some good information and data.
CrownBattery- A major manufacturer of industrial and deep cycle batteries.
TrojanBattery - not a lot of real technical info here, but has all the specifications.
Exide- not much here but marketing stuff, but you can buy Exide T-shirts. We don't sell Exide
Surrette- Specs and data on the Surrette deep cycle and marine batteries
Concorde- specs and data on all the Concorde batteries, including Lifeline.

Please feel free to emailus with any comments about this page or batteries in general.

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For a look at marine battery usage concerning dual batteries & or dual motors here is a link that has wiring diagrams of different versions with the pros & cons of each. The section below was taken from the following website message board
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/dualBattery.html

Single Engine/Dual Battery

The use of a single engine and dual batteries is one of the most common installations found in outboard powered boats. Interconnection is straight forward. The diagram below shows the typical wiring.

The use of a switch and wiring like this is recommend with dual battery installations. A brief explanation of the operationof the switch in this circuit follows.

In the OFF position, the two batteries are disconnected from all loads. The OFF position is used when the boat is being stored or otherwise not in use. It prevents any drain from the batteries. This can be useful if a circuit has been accidently left on, say a cabin lighting circuit or similar drain. Such a load can completely discharge a battery in a day or two, leading to an unanticipated dead battery situation when you return to your boat. On some switches a keylock is provided, allowing the switch to locked in the off position. The provides another level of security in preventing the boat from being used when left in storage or unattended.

In the 1 position, all loads and charging currents are connected to the No. 1battery (the PORT battery in the illustration). Starting current for the engine starter motor is supplied by the PORT battery. When the engine is running,surplus current developed by its charging circuit will flowing into the PORT battery. Current to lighting and other loads will flow from the PORT battery.The STDB battery is completely isolated and has no load current, nor does it receive any charging current.

In the 2 position, all loads and charging currents are connected to the No. 2battery (the STBD battery in the illustration). Now it supplies current required by starting and running, and it receives all the charging current from the engine. The PORT battery is totally isolated.

In the BOTH position, the two batteries are connected in parallel. This has a number of implications. Unless the batteries have exactly the same state of charge, the combined voltage to the two batteries in parallel will sag to a voltage somewhat lower than the highest battery's terminal voltage. Current from the higher voltage battery will flow into the lower voltage battery and begin charging it. As long as the state of charge in one battery is higher thanthe other, the lower battery is more of a load than a source of power. Eventually, the batteries will reach an equilibrium, and they will both have the same terminal voltage. At that point they will both tend to supply current to loads that are attached to them, and they will both receive charging current furnished by the engine. [might want to re-read this one - very closely?]

It would seem like operating in the BOTH position would be beneficial, but that is not always the case. Even thought the batteries will eventually rise or fall to the same terminal voltage when connected together, they will not necessarily become exactly the same. A battery (or any source of electrical engery) can be though of as having an internal resistance. The lower this internal resistance the greater the current it can supply. The internal resistance will also affect how the battery absorbs charging current. Eventhough they are connected in parallel, it is possible that they will supply unequal currents to the loads,and it is also possible that they will accept unequal currents from an theengine charging source.

If the batteries are significantly different in their age, their type of construction, and their state of charge, this unequal distribution of current can be more significant. To describe the situation in the simplest of terms, when two batteries are connected in parallel, they will probably tend to behave more like the weakest battery of the two than the strongest.

Paralleling the batteries can come in handy in some situations. For example, both batteries may be discharged to a point where neither alone can provide enough current to crank the starter motor, but combined in parallel they can turn the engine over.

If one battery is fully charged and the other is totally discharged, connecting them in parallel (by using the BOTH position) can cause very high currents to flow between the batteries. Extreme heat can be generated by the sudden charging of the discharged battery. Use caution in this situation. It is better to recondition a discharged battery by slowly re-charging it with anAC-operated battery charger.

The arrangement of the contacts of the typical OFF-1-2-BOTH permits the operation of the switch in the range of 1-2-BOTH without ever disconnecting the batteries from the load or the outboard charging circuit. This is important, as it ispossible to cause damage to the charging circuit if the battery is disconnected while the engine is running. By choosing the path of rotation of the switch, itis possible to change from 1 to 2 without moving through the OFF position.

http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/Batteries.htm
 
Wow. It seems you are really determined to prove me wrong on this one.:)

I have said in my previous comments basically the same thing as these guys have that you've posted. The majority of the text on combining batteries in parallel is again talking about using them as a power source and not charging. Except of course for the one line about accepting unequal currents from the charging source.

This is all OK. The intent is to charge both batteries and if some current is drawn from one battery to another that is fine. I'm not advocating switching to both when you have one dead battery and one full one in order to run your electronics while trolling etc. I'm saying keep your batteries in good condition, keep them charged and it's fine to charge them both at the same time with your main motor. It's also more convenient.

I do have a lot of experience working with marine electrical systems, batteries as well as off grid power setups using DC based power supplies. I'm not talking out my arse here;) I do thank you for your replies as I appreciate the opportunity to learn.
 
i see points in both arguments, if i have a discharged house battery i will start on my starting battery ( start engine)run till i am charging less than 2 amps then switch to charge my discharged house battery till it has been charged to a point that i am charging at 2 or less amps then switch to both to keep them both on a float state.

if i have been charging at the dock and everything is charged i will run on both and continue to float both my batteries till i arrive at my ancourage then swith to my house battery.

so if i have one dead battery i will not charge on both. i will issolate that battery and charge it seperate
 
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