Foam in boats

spring fever

Well-Known Member
Had a discussion with a member yesterday who had purchased a boat. He was very concerned because it was foam filled and wanted to put a thru hull transducer in it. He was very concerned about the proper procedure to isolate the foam from water intrusion around his -either thru hull or "on hull" transducer. This got me thinking-there are many types of foam but basically open cell and closed cell foam. When guys have problems with stringers "older boats?" and have to replace them and the foam is totally soaked and adding hundreds of pounds to boat weight -this must be "open cell" foam! Apparently closed cell foam doesn't absorb water-so why weren't all boats foamed with close cell foam. Was it not available when they first started foaming boats or is it an expense/application thing? Just curious-any ideas?
 
All foam is bad and holds water. My refit will not include replacing the foam.
 
The only foam that won't absorb water is sheet Styrofoam. Any of the pour/spray in stuff after a little while pounding in the waves will fill up! If your rig is bigger then about 18 feet, the hull foam probably won't keep the swamped boat floating. It mainly serves to:

1) Quiet the hull down

2) Slow water ingress down when you poke a hole in the hull

3) Stiffen up the hull.

Most guys who refit don't bother with the foam, I know myself I would rather see what's going on down in the hull. If I get a hole or something in the hull, I'd like to be able to poke a rag in it or something.
 
The only foam that won't absorb water is sheet Styrofoam. Any of the pour/spray in stuff after a little while pounding in the waves will fill up! If your rig is bigger then about 18 feet, the hull foam probably won't keep the swamped boat floating. It mainly serves to:

1) Quiet the hull down

2) Slow water ingress down when you poke a hole in the hull

3) Stiffen up the hull.

Most guys who refit don't bother with the foam, I know myself I would rather see what's going on down in the hull. If I get a hole or something in the hull, I'd like to be able to poke a rag in it or something.
 
Originally it would have been closed cell foam, but over time and especially with freeze/thaw cycles, it will break down and hold increasing amounts of water. It doesn't soak it up like full on open cell foam like a kitchen sponge - it's more like a ripe apple when it's totally saturated. But that takes a long time. In between, you get a lot of flotation.

I just stripped about half the foam out of a 20' Double Eagle that spent a lot of the last 30 years in commercial service...total weight of the foam I took out was around 100 lbs, I'd say. And it had a pretty nasty hole in the sole that had been there for years.

The worst foam, closest to the keel, had water dripping out of it when you picked it up. But it was still maybe 1/3 the density of water, so it would have bobbed like a cork even then.

I'm replacing the foam because it's cheap (8 cubic feet is a couple hundred bucks) and while I don't expect it to keep my boat afloat per se, I think it allows a bit of a margin for error if things go wrong. I mean there's a pretty good argument that if you're swamping a 20' Double Eagle, nothing is going to save you...but I think if I ran over an unmarked object and tore a two foot gash in the hull and it was foamed up with dry foam, I bet I'd have a lot more time before I took on enough water for it to go seriously wrong. The foam would physically displace water that would otherwise enter.


So that's my take - it's closed cell foam but it breaks down over time but even so...hours and hours of submersion would be necessary to force even old foam to take on so much water that it had neutral buoyancy. If you have just a sealed air pocket, that's theoretically better, unless it gets an underwater hole punched in it and ships a bunch of water, at which point you could have 200 lbs in one corner in two minutes. Automatic disaster? No, but personally I like the delay that a foam-filled hull offers.
 
Don't underestimate the stiffening power of foam. Unsupported fibreglass is quite flexible; the foam adds rigidity without adding much weight. We use spray foam in all door installations - including interior doors - because it locks the door frame in place and keeps it operating properly for years.
 
Foam does add rigidity to the hull. When I removed the foam it was absolutely soaked. Hundreds of pounds were removed. To provide rigidity to the hull as I am not replacing the foam, I added transverse bulkheads between the stringers. Lots of work, and costs, but it is now a tank, and with 1 inch marine ply on top, it will be very solid and my fat butt wont be squishing around on deck when I move around.
 
Originally it would have been closed cell foam, but over time and especially with freeze/thaw cycles, it will break down and hold increasing amounts of water. It doesn't soak it up like full on open cell foam like a kitchen sponge - it's more like a ripe apple when it's totally saturated. But that takes a long time. In between, you get a lot of flotation.

I just stripped about half the foam out of a 20' Double Eagle that spent a lot of the last 30 years in commercial service...total weight of the foam I took out was around 100 lbs, I'd say. And it had a pretty nasty hole in the sole that had been there for years.

The worst foam, closest to the keel, had water dripping out of it when you picked it up. But it was still maybe 1/3 the density of water, so it would have bobbed like a cork even then.

I'm replacing the foam because it's cheap (8 cubic feet is a couple hundred bucks) and while I don't expect it to keep my boat afloat per se, I think it allows a bit of a margin for error if things go wrong. I mean there's a pretty good argument that if you're swamping a 20' Double Eagle, nothing is going to save you...but I think if I ran over an unmarked object and tore a two foot gash in the hull and it was foamed up with dry foam, I bet I'd have a lot more time before I took on enough water for it to go seriously wrong. The foam would physically displace water that would otherwise enter.


So that's my take - it's closed cell foam but it breaks down over time but even so...hours and hours of submersion would be necessary to force even old foam to take on so much water that it had neutral buoyancy. If you have just a sealed air pocket, that's theoretically better, unless it gets an underwater hole punched in it and ships a bunch of water, at which point you could have 200 lbs in one corner in two minutes. Automatic disaster? No, but personally I like the delay that a foam-filled hull offers.

http://www.arimaboats.com/construction/
Here's a fully swamped boat with holes in the hull and 650lbs of lead in it, still floats. I thought the whole point of the foam flotation under floors was to float the boat no matter what.
 
In calm water I'm sure it will float forever. In practice, if I swamped a boat at sea, I think that foam or no foam I'd be in very serious trouble. The delay I'm talking about isn't the delay before the boat sinks, it's the delay before the situation becomes unsurvivable without rescue.

Technically, if that Arrima had sealed air in the hull, it would be floating a little higher. But that wouldn't be safer, imo.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk
 
Spring Fever might be referring to me as I just pulled the trigger on a foam filled boat.

I was looking at a line of newer glass boats that have zero wood in the construction. They are "foam filled" (unsinkable) but the foam used in the manufacturing process is called coosa composite---extreme closed cell, once layered with glass it is extremely stiff. Will not take on water ( you can drill into it without sealing holes)

I finally went old-school with the older foam filled boat (the fit and finish of the coosa composite boats was a bit rough and the QC was lacking) but I am going to have the older hull scrutinized with a moisture meter before installing through-hull transducers

I owned a whaler knock-off called a Sea Lion for a few years: foam filled, and completely water-logged. Had it hung from a snatch block for 3 days and got some of the water out but once it's in, it's in unless you core out the soggy foam.

Coosa will probably be found in more and more boats in the future.
 
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