flasher colours....summer cinook & coho

J

jjmoffett

Guest
i'm new to this forum and realize everybody is probably sick of discussing something like flasher colours....but i am heading to winter harbour the last part of july and was wondering what everyones favorite is? or does it depend what you are trolling with? i.e. bait, hootchies, plugs, spoons, ect. any help would be appreciated!:D
 
I don't think you can go wrong with 'old school' Hot Spots. I like green/silver, red/silver, white/silver and my favorite...purple/gold. I also like to pull around the purple haze. I am not yet convinced that flashers make a huge difference in catch rates...I think leader length and lure selection play a far more critical role.
 
quote:Originally posted by Charlie

The flasher is designed to attract fish trough vibrations first and then sight… transitioning the fish to the movement of the bait/lure. Leader length and presentation are far more important than flasher color.

“White – No question… my personal favorite…” is a correct statement, especially for fish running deep. This does follow what is called the Spectrum Fishing Theory. White is made up of the colors red, blue, and green. As it descends it loses the color in its respective spectrum. At approximately 14 feet it loses the red spectrum, leaving the blue and green to be seen. Not a bad choice! If I did not have but one to choose from, it would be white!

Light is absorbed by water according to wavelength with the longer wave radiation (red) absorbed first. Maximum transmission is for short wavelengths of light. This absorption accounts for the disappearance of color from flashers and lures. In other words, a red flasher will appear black in deep water because no red light is present to reflect. If one is running red or orange below 20 feet the color is not showing and it appears brown or black. If they are having success with these colors it is not due to the red or orange color, but related to the action, the flash (some glow paint or tape), or the fact that it is actually showing as black or brown in color. This is true as you move down in depth with the other colors.


We have all sought ways to determine the best colors. With most selecting a color either by asking others what's working or by picking one that has served well in the past. However, the best way is to use the Spectrum. It has proven reliable. Red is the favorite choice of fish if the red light rays are visible to them. When red rays are not visible, the closest to red in the color spectrum becomes the favorite. Therefore, a red flasher or lure should be the first to consider! Not necessarily, red is also the first color to fade out entirely and usually at a depth of approximately 14 feet, hence why most people end up using green. I am included! Orange, purple, and ultraviolet rays disappear below 45 feet (13.7 m). Yellow is visible to 90 feet (27.4 m), green to 110 feet (33.5 m), and blue to 180 feet (24.4 m). Colors below their visibility range only show as grey or black. I do switch to blue quite often in the afternoon and on overcast days!

I use this to remember what colors to use, divide the solar spectrum into colors that are warm (red, orange, and yellow) or cold (green and blue). Warm colors are considered when fishing shallow water and in bright light. Cold colors when fishing deeper water and during lower-light periods.

Black is made up of all colors and hence is the best contrast color.
Fluorescent colors offered in some flashers and lures look sharp; however, I see no real advantage for their use. Incidentally, fluorescents activated by ultraviolet rays are effective only in the upper 45 feet of the water column. Phosphorescent finishes are a different story, when exposed to light such as a flashlight they glow white. At least, for short periods then require recharging. Phosphorescent lures have proven effective on Chinook salmon especially early morning and late evening.

Because it greatly affects color penetration, light intensity must be considered when selecting the color. During the day, direct sunlight is the main light source, but a lesser significant source is diffused sky light. Direct light rays striking the water at a 30-degree angle or less are reflected, not contributing any light downward. The exception is on windy days when the angles of waves catch some of the rays and send flashes of light downward. This is why a chop on the surface is such a big help to fishing. Once light strikes the water at an angle greater than 30 degrees, it starts to penetrate deeper and deeper as the sun moves toward noon, with maximum penetration at mid-day. Then the sun starts to descend and light intensity decreases to eventual darkness. It is important to realize that colors penetrate differently as the day advances and light intensity changes. For a while in early light only blue rays will show. Then gradually green will be visible to fish, then yellow, and so on. Mid-day is optimum for penetration of all colors. During the afternoon, color visibility changes in reverse order, blue the last to be seen.

However, in the end, you still need to remember; the most important thing is:
<center>Presentation - Presentation - Presentation </center>

A good response. However, there are exceptions...

Ok Charlie....question for you. Please explain why SOCKEYE are so responsive to RED? We know that they naturally eat.... naturally..but given the light filtration through water, then we should be able to catch Sockeye on many other colours since colour no longer is a factor and it's more the shade of grey? I've tried it..you can selectively fish for other species of salmon...in among massive schools of sockeye... and not catch sockeye..fishing with all kinds of other lures. In effect then, we should be able to put down "grey" squirts and other colours where the "appearance of colour" has long since filtered out and still catch sockeye or our selected species of fish?

Also, I can think of many fishing experiences where a particular color combo is the only producer at that time.

By your logic, most of this colour stuff is bullsh*t relatively speaking and a great big scam...after all...why bother with coloured gear? Many fishing situations come to mind where "only" that particular color are producing stikes...I don't think that's coincidental. There's something to it--and all my gear is tied or "tuned" to the fishing situation at hand. There's little variance in my tied gear...it's consistent.
 
quote:Originally posted by Charlie

quote:Originally posted by fishin_magician

Ah, good question about Sockeye!

I will never argue two things,

<center>“match the hatch”
&
“presentation, presentation, presentation”
</center>
I need to advise I do not target Sockeye! I have only been Sockeye fishing once in my life on Lake Washington; however, I did catch my limit! I have caught a few Sockeye, but never while targeting other salmon using anchovies or herring!

To answer your questions, I have to do a little homework on Sockeye!
quote:
Estuarine and Ocean Life History
The freshwater/saltwater transition zone provided by estuary habitat can be important to the success of sockeye smolts. A natural, productive estuary provides the food resources necessary for the smolts to transit the area, and can offer refuges from numerous fish and bird predator species. In the near shore and open ocean environments, predation by fish, birds, and marine mammals, and competition for food resources with other fish species affects growth and survival of sockeye salmon. Most of the estuaries in Washington have been altered by changes including channelization, dredging, diking, filling of wetlands and tidal areas, and degraded water quality. This alteration and/or loss of estuarine habitat by factors such as urbanization, agriculture, forest land management, and industrial and water resource development has been extensive. These habitat modifications tend to reduce the overall amount of habitat, and reduces the general productivity of estuaries (and food production), which limits overall utility of these areas for sockeye rearing.

Ocean growth and survival of all species of Pacific salmon can be affected by periodic warm water events (El Niño) in local waters, and by cyclic changes in ocean conditions in the North Pacific Ocean. Returning sockeye will have spent 2-4 years at sea upon returning to their natal spawning grounds, with the majority returning in June and July as 4-year-old fish at an average weight of about 5 pounds.

As salmon migrate through the cool, pristine waters of the west coast, they receive nourishment from their natural surroundings. During their time in the ocean, sockeye, pink, and chum salmon feed primarily on plankton and crustaceans such as tiny shrimp, while Chinook and Coho salmon eat smaller fish.
Sockeye juveniles overwinter in coastal watersheds and remain in lakes 1-3 years, migrating from streams in the spring; a few go directly to sea. Their primary diet is Plankton, krill, and small crustaceans.”
quote:
“Krill are actually small shrimp, but capable of purposeful swimming. Plankton, by definition, is all the little things in the water, some plants, and some animals that are not capable of purposeful swimming. That is, even if they swim a little, it is not enough to move them significantly from place to place relative to ocean currents. Larval krill would be part of the plank tonic community, as would the larvae of many marine creatures. However, adult krill are not plankton. Crustaceans? They include various familiar animals, such as crabs, lobsters, crayfish, shrim, krill, and barnacles.

So, their natural food, plankton, krill, and shrimp, NOT other baitfish; explains why I have never caught one on plug cut or anchovy! The predominate color of Krill and Crustaceans= RED?

#1
quote:please explain why SOCKEYE are so responsive to RED?

It appears their natural food is red. That would more than explain it. Remember, if you but a red lure and a grey lure in the water at 60 feet you will find there is a difference NOT in the color, but in the contrast! So, one needs to best, “Match the hatch!” Since Krill and shrimp are small little creatures, I would think a very small red hootchie or even a small trout “diamond ring” would produce. Possibly even red salmon egg? And I would use a red flasher, might switch that from an 11” to an 8” flasher?

#2
quote:In effect then, we should be able to put down "grey" squirts and other colours where the "appearance of colour" has long since filtered out and still catch sockeye or our selected species of fish?
That is possible, with the correct presentation, but again, even though they “might” appear the same color to us, they will put out a different contrast to the fish and that gets back to both “match the hatch” and “presentation”!

Please remember I am not a sockeye fisherman!

#3
quote: Also, I can think of many fishing experiences where a particular color combo is the only producer at that time.

Absolutely! The colors might fade at different depths, but that is depending on water clarity, light, etc! To blanket say fish cannot see the contrast a particular color is putting out at a specific depth is asinine and it does make a big difference. Again, notice I said ‘contrast’ they might not see the color, but they will for sure see the contrast that particular color is putting out. And, that could make all the difference in the world and does affect your presentation.

Good points and very good on the research..you are correct...and this us Sockeye lovers in BC know... however, when it comes to "contrast", you can replicate the contrast with the darkness of the shade. Colour become irrelevant---if the colour is gone at that depth...then all you need to do is replicate the contrast...no such luck though I'm afraid...match the hatch all you want!!!

It's interesting to note that you can go out there and experience the switch and change in preference from shades over the course of the bite....despite very similar tide, light and other conditions.

I'm not entirely convinced that colour becomes irrelevant at the depths....but either way...it's interesting to experience and master!!

Call it one of the little mysteries which keeps us fishing.

There are some interesting points though..you can fish Cop Car Spoons on WCVI/ECVI and catch plenty of fish. Fish the Cop Car in Vancouver and your washing a lure and dragging around a lure which won't catch you diddley more often than not...no matter what time of year it it. Likewise for the purple haze...there's a few times and few places for the purple haze in Vancouver area waters...otherwise...it has a spot in one of the many gear boxes and it doesn't come out. Funny how certain lures work at certain places on the coast and I don't think there are substantial water temperature differences in many of the cases, let alone water colour, weather, etc etc. It's hard to explain. Likewise blue lures...they don't catch diddley around Vancouver relative to other ones.

Anyways, some people say don't give fish so much credit..and I don't...however...when you notice one blasted colour producing a lot better than another at a certain depth...there's compelling reason to have a multiples of that lure in the box for that "bite" time when that is the ticket.

I agree with what you're saying...however...there are exceptions to the rule! That's because rules are meant to be broken?! lol.
 
Back in the old days, we trolled only with strip and we caught sockeye.
 
from what i hear up in winter harbour we are mainly going to be fishing the top 60 feet so the colour spectrum is not going to be such an issue!
 
Interesting reading...

In our efforts commercial trolling, we constantly test flasher color and manufacturer to determine just what will work the best in any given situation. Of course this testing then spills over to the sporting season, with a great many findings of the commercial application coming directly into play when runnin' rods. In fact, we do this often enough that several of the manufacturers have encouraged us to come up with new patterns, which they then make in a limited production run for us to test. While many fall by the wayside, there are a few real Winners we've happened upon.

One such example would be Oki's Blue Green Mist with the mirror finish. This finish is set over a UV blade, and the combo has proven Deadly</u>! Thoughts go something like this: Leading side (towards the boat when spinning) flashes the same color exhibited by many salmonids out in the chuck, and we believe this to be identified as a feeding salmon by other salmon. The side that faces back towards the terminal is a mirror finish. We think this not only increases the flash, but when a fish approaches from the rear quadrant, displays a mirror image (several in fact) of the terminal trailing behind - in effect presenting a small school of terminals, with of the course the one attached to your hook trailing behind. Couple these with the attracting qualities of the UV blade itself, and it very much seems to do the job on springs, coho and often sockeye. This particular flasher has become my main Go-To for those species in both commercial and sport trolling.

Varying schools of thought with sockeye. The old standard red-base silver foil still works, and likely always will given their food source. Usually followed by a red or pink mini-plankton (MP) hootchie. We have however noted that the blue-green leading edge on either a green or UV blade also works well, perhaps mimicking others of their kind to the sox. Just a side-bar: Krill/plankton is very much NOT the only food source for sockeye. We have caught literally hundreds on small spoons designed specifically to imitate small herring etc. Several years ago, the sockeye entering the Alberni Canal encountered a massive wall of immature herring when entering the Sound. While many folks were having a bit of a tough time taking them on traditional red gear, we literally stomped all over them running small Gypsies, McKnights and KK's colored to imitate those herring. And many of the sox landed actually had partially digested herring in their stomachs.
As a general rule though, you can't go wrong with red gear for these delicious beasties! And although as a retired biologist I do understand the characteristics of light in the water as WE perceive that, I have always believed there is something more to the way fish see things than we do. Why else would sockeye ignore everything else but a certain shade of pink/red at depth?

Most flashers will work. Just some tend to work a little better than others. In the sporting aspect, that can spell the difference between a good day, and an excellent one. In commercial trolling, that spells the difference in a good paycheck, or an even better one. Methinks the experimenting will continue in both applications for the foreseeable future...

Cheers,
Nog
 
quote: displays a mirror image (several in fact) of the terminal trailing behind - in effect presenting a small school of terminals,

So maybe those great lakes guys are onto something with these:

3_flya.jpg
 
quote:Originally posted by IronNoggin

Interesting reading...

In our efforts commercial trolling, we constantly test flasher color and manufacturer to determine just what will work the best in any given situation. Of course this testing then spills over to the sporting season, with a great many findings of the commercial application coming directly into play when runnin' rods. In fact, we do this often enough that several of the manufacturers have encouraged us to come up with new patterns, which they then make in a limited production run for us to test. While many fall by the wayside, there are a few real Winners we've happened upon.

One such example would be Oki's Blue Green Mist with the mirror finish. This finish is set over a UV blade, and the combo has proven Deadly</u>! Thoughts go something like this: Leading side (towards the boat when spinning) flashes the same color exhibited by many salmonids out in the chuck, and we believe this to be identified as a feeding salmon by other salmon. The side that faces back towards the terminal is a mirror finish. We think this not only increases the flash, but when a fish approaches from the rear quadrant, displays a mirror image (several in fact) of the terminal trailing behind - in effect presenting a small school of terminals, with of the course the one attached to your hook trailing behind. Couple these with the attracting qualities of the UV blade itself, and it very much seems to do the job on springs, coho and often sockeye. This particular flasher has become my main Go-To for those species in both commercial and sport trolling.

Varying schools of thought with sockeye. The old standard red-base silver foil still works, and likely always will given their food source. Usually followed by a red or pink mini-plankton (MP) hootchie. We have however noted that the blue-green leading edge on either a green or UV blade also works well, perhaps mimicking others of their kind to the sox. Just a side-bar: Krill/plankton is very much NOT the only food source for sockeye. We have caught literally hundreds on small spoons designed specifically to imitate small herring etc. Several years ago, the sockeye entering the Alberni Canal encountered a massive wall of immature herring when entering the Sound. While many folks were having a bit of a tough time taking them on traditional red gear, we literally stomped all over them running small Gypsies, McKnights and KK's colored to imitate those herring. And many of the sox landed actually had partially digested herring in their stomachs.
As a general rule though, you can't go wrong with red gear for these delicious beasties! And although as a retired biologist I do understand the characteristics of light in the water as WE perceive that, I have always believed there is something more to the way fish see things than we do. Why else would sockeye ignore everything else but a certain shade of pink/red at depth?

Most flashers will work. Just some tend to work a little better than others. In the sporting aspect, that can spell the difference between a good day, and an excellent one. In commercial trolling, that spells the difference in a good paycheck, or an even better one. Methinks the experimenting will continue in both applications for the foreseeable future...

Cheers,
Nog


Agreed Noggin'..I can't beat a good flasher or the "right" coloured lure!!

Good post.
 
I have found I catch more fish when the lure, hootchie or teaser head matches the flasher. Is there truth to this or not?
 
Very interesting theories, but how about same gear, same depth and all day long only one side of the boat catches the fish?
 
Oh one of my favorite topics.

Flasher colour does make a difference SOMETIMES and if think it doesn't you have lots to still learn..........but that's why it call fishing (and not catching).

Charlies makes a exellent point, the deeper you go, it all about 'shades of grey'. Also, don't just think depth, sunlight penetration, angle, water clarity and colour (suspended particles) are huge.

Here's my two bits in the short and sweet version:
-WHITE, best go to colour in low light situations
-GLOW, same comments as WHITE, watch GLOW though, it sometimes is TOO MUCH on sunny days or as light penetration improves
-SILVER, GOLD & CHROME - sunny days
-BLACK- think contrast (and very sunny days)

Final tip, look at the water, it if green, think green, if its brown think ???, if its deep blue......think???

If your not thinking, you might not be catching.
 
i hope you guys keep rambling on!:D im actually learning quite a bit from this![8D]
 
quote:Originally posted by jjmoffett

i hope you guys keep rambling on!:D im actually learning quite a bit from this![8D]

Carefull you don't learn too much or you'll spend more time changing up your gear than you will fishing. If a flasher is not working does it mean you have the wrong flasher? What if you think you have the right flasher and the boat next to you lands one with a flasher color that doesn't have rhyme or reason, do you change your gear? Maybe he was just lucky. Sure flasher color can make a difference but these 5 things need to be on your side to have success.
Location
Presentation
Depth
Speed
Luck
If you have these dialed in and still no action, relax the mood.
Have a sandwich, tell a joke or a good fishing story. Ignore the rods. That's usually when the sh*t hits the fan. Good things happen when everyone is enjoying themselves and having a good time.
 
the kicker side of my boat puts out a disproportionate amount of Springs... of the fish, in the surfline anyway..I think they like the bubbles, the +++ charge it puts down, even tho I use a blackbox, and the BUBBLES..

offshore - deep - there is no hot side.

Color of flasher is VERY important, but like many have said....a distant 3 or 4th behind: fish where the fish are, match hatch, fish, right presentation, right depth, right speed..then color of flasher..

RED is god, even DEEP where it is BLACK :)
 
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