Fisheries Minister Jonathan Wilkinson ignores the courts decision on the threat the PRV virus!

[wildmanyeah]

the rockfish comment from wmy is likely an honest mistake since it is broadcast so often by activists.

Thought I read it somewhere as factual information but guess was not.

Prv is not a disease causing agent. This is why it is called an orphan virus.

Did they not link it to causing jaundice in farmed chinook?

 

[patbay]

Diseased fish are not being put in the ocean. If a fish has prv it doesn’t mean it has a disease. Prv is not a disease causing agent. This is why it is called an orphan virus.

So PRV is no big deal? No one should care if you guys are transferring fish that carry the Norweigen strain of PRV into our waters?
Thanks for the heads up

 

[agentaqua]

Good "catch" WMY - excuse the pun. You are correct: https://www.facetsjournal.com/doi/10.1139/facets-2018-0008

PRv is definitely a disease-causing organism despite denials from FF pundits & PR firms. Like most FF introduced diseases and disease-causing organisms - we are in the beginning phases of figuring out how it all works - yet again - despite the secrecy and denials from the industry's proponents which unfortunately frequently includes some DFO departments.:
https://policyoptions.irpp.org/maga...he-dfos-science-advisory-process-in-question/
https://www.watershed-watch.org/BR_letter_re_SCA_review.pdf

One of the biggest impediments to developing that understanding of epidemiology & population-level effects is the absolute refusal by CFIA and DFO to release timely & geographic coordinates of disease outbreaks at FFs. I believe they know that will lead to understanding the role of FFs and the open net-cage technology in amplification & transfer of diseases-causing organisms to adjacent wild stocks. It's a real risk to wild salmon stocks:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0188793
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22959429
https://veterinaryresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1297-9716-45-35

For years the FF industry denied that PRv had a role in the development of HSMI. Some in that industry are still stuck in denial. It took a longitudinal study by Kristi Miller et al to show the progression of that disease over time - and when:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0171471

One of the confounding problems wrt PRv is that it can exist as a low-level infection for some time before it gets triggered and blossoms into HMSI. Ad hoc testing will miss this progression.

Coho can get it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27296722

Trout can get it: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jfd.12943

Steelhead can get it too: https://veterinaryresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13567-019-0632-4

Herring, Capelin mackerel, and smelt can get it: https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-10-230

In addition, PRv also exists as a PRV-1 precursor strain not associated with clinical HSMI: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31121920

Furthermore, PRv may facilitate co-infections with other vectors such as A. salmonicida, due presumably to the lowering of the fishes immune system: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30230250

Industry pundits appear reluctant to admit any of these facts, IMHO. They want business as usual wrt the open net-pen technology. Like many other posters and people who genuinely care about our wild salmon - I've stopped listening to their irresponsible and unsupported claims a very long time ago.

 

[Fishmyster]

Good on ya Birdnest for keeping at it here. I appreciate every post you make.

Yes the internet is not a fair playing field. It is the place where copy and paste wizards can solicit and their intentions while the whole hidden identity factor empowers them. Everyone is always looking for "accountability" in this world. Well that isn't what is happening here in this topic. I do hope everyone out there does understand this and knows not to trust people who don't stand behind their actions with their identity. It is a true sign of dishonest actions. I am feeling a strong vibe of paid ENGO presents here!!

Keep up the good fight Birdy of truth and accountability! I know It's an uphill battle in an unfair game!! Maybe one day this forum could require accountability from forum members buy making identities a required provision for posting?? I would participate more it that ever happens.

Ken

Sure I’m a fish farmer but I often find myself defending individual facts on these threads which bring to question what is the quality of the information being provided on these threads.
For example, in the above posts two things are absolutely false. First off rock fish can not have prv.
And again the agent is confusing the terms disease and virus. These are two different things which the agent still confuses on these threads and I would expect this individual to continue to do so.
This serves as a reminder that this forum is a social media platform where information provided is often misleading and incorrect. I don’t blame the @Admin for this for the subject matter is complex and they are limited to moderation for mud slinging and what seems to be inevitable name calling however when it comes to repeating misinformation as the agent does by replacing the term virus with disease I think it may be something the admin may address since this particular subject has pointed out repeatedly over the years yet the agent, who’s identity is top secret apparently, continues to broadcast this false information.

Diseased fish are not being put in the ocean. If a fish has prv it doesn’t mean it has a disease. Prv is not a disease causing agent. This is why it is called an orphan virus.

It’s interesting that when I post info I am usually posting opposition to individual comments or statement and the defence I see in return is that I am a defender of fish farms overall when really I rarely see defence addressing my individual comments. I should not have to be on here defending individual truths being put forth by the usual posters since they claim to be so highly informed yet seem more than willing to post plain lies and misinformation.
Note: the rockfish comment from wmy is likely an honest mistake since it is broadcast so often by activists.

I would ask the @Admin at the bare minimum to address this continuing effort by the agent to replace the term virus with disease for this individual has been corrected on this issue multiple times over the years on this basic use of these terms in this case by the agent is absolutely not true. It’s quite telling of this individual level of integrity on this topic.

 

[Birdsnest]

Im afraid that this prv issue is going to spill over into hatchery production. If fish farms have to test for PRV then so will hatcheries. If any group of fish is found to have PRV then they can not go into the ocean. All this because of one paper that stated "maybe". Like I've said before is maybe is enough shut down salmon farming in the ocean the "maybe" is enough to shut down sport fishing. Look at the week/maybe, and even false or unrelated arguments being used in some closures of sport caught springs.
Anyways, I know a lot of people think its so amazing to have agent here posting but I think this perspective being brodcast here is going to really hurt sport fishing in the very near future. I urge the mods to look closely at who is who uses this forum an why. Since its a private forum they can do whatever they like with it.

Agents last post is purely Gish Galop and does not address my previous post like a normal person in a normal conversation. Its like 3 days worth of reading of which I have already breaded through previously.

If I had to vote I would vote this AA guy out of this forum. Its presence is BAD for BC.

 

[terrin]

Must be getting close to the smoking gun. It's getting hot in the kitchen with all the free advise to the mods being thrown around. I always enjoy AA's enlightened posts and frequent this site just to educate myself.

 

[Fishmyster]

Must be getting close to the smoking gun. It's getting hot in the kitchen with all the free advise to the mods being thrown around. I always enjoy AA's enlightened posts and frequent this site just to educate myself.

I believe we are slowly getting to the smoking gun alright. It is the smoking fact of the social "green" viruses that are infecting the internet social media sites and promoting the demises of any Canadian industry.

Are you really a stand up guy who will respectfully back your internet actions with your name? How do we all know you and AA are not ENGO reps? No offense meant just wondering why it would be so important for anyone to keep their identity so secretive? What is there to hide??

 

[dradons]

Buddy you keep going on about people's identity. I have a feeling many people know who each other are on this site. I don't think people are hiding behind their screen name.

In true discussion and debate, you should be able to look at both sides and be critical of both sides arguments. Also, certain people keep blasting ENGOs with blanket statements. Not all "ENGOs" are looking to shut down fisheries. Some of this is just getting out of hand and hateful. Many of the hatcheries are operated by ENGOs. Are they the baddies too?

Also, what do you mean social "green" viruses? Sounds like an ad hominem attack. Heaven forbid we as a society encourage changing some of our practices to keep **** of the rivers and the oceans.......

 

[Fishmyster]

Buddy you keep going on about people's identity. I have a feeling many people know who each other are on this site. I don't think people are hiding behind their screen name.

In true discussion and debate, you should be able to look at both sides and be critical of both sides arguments. Also, certain people keep blasting ENGOs with blanket statements. Not all "ENGOs" are looking to shut down fisheries. Some of this is just getting out of hand and hateful. Many of the hatcheries are operated by ENGOs. Are they the baddies too?

Also, what do you mean social "green" viruses? Sounds like an ad hominem attack. Heaven forbid we as a society encourage changing some of our practices to keep **** of the rivers and the oceans.......

You, aa and terrin likely know each other and possible all hang together at times. I and probably Birdy are curious who you all are and why you must maintain your secret identities? It is obvious that you all have something to hide. People with honest intentions don't need to hide behind an alias. I am just making sure others who read this anti ff propaganda understand what it happening.

I do see both sides and I first look at the big picture before casting judgment. After assessing environmental chemistry, considering my extensive field observations it is easy to see that ffms are not what has been causing health problems within salmon populations. It is the environmental pH. I chose not to believe the continuous bs reiterated by anti ff promoters and believe the bio indicators out there beyond the computer being the real world which is conveniently ignored. Do you have the integrity to look into the field for supporting ecology in salmon streams first before blaming ff's for doing such damage? The social "green" or "snowflake" virus is one where people are trying to brainwash others that everything negative to the environment is caused by man fueled with greed and needs to change. I find it to be kind of a cult. These kind of people always melt and run from factual information refuting their beliefs. Kind of like when AA ranted on me stating pH has not effected B.C. salmon populations then aborts from the conversation. Not what I consider to be a stand up act.

I am curious to what you mean keep **** of the rivers and oceans? What **** and what is it doing and where? Lets talk science and proof of what you speak.

 

[fogged in]

[QUOTE="Birdsnest, post: 933210, member: 5446
Agents last post is purely Gish Galop and does not address my previous post like a normal person in a normal conversation. Its like 3 days worth of reading of which I have already breaded through previously.
If I had to vote I would vote this AA guy out of this forum. Its presence is BAD for BC.[/QUOTE]

Some of us are guilty of occasionally reacting to a post by attacking the poster when we strongly disagree with their opinion. (myself included)
I think we all need to keep in mind, it is not important if we do or do not know the personal id of the poster.
They have a right to post their opinions and we need to be more respectful of that right and not attack them !!
Now...GO RAPTORS GO

 

[Fishmyster]

[QUOTE="Birdsnest, post: 933210, member: 5446
Agents last post is purely Gish Galop and does not address my previous post like a normal person in a normal conversation. Its like 3 days worth of reading of which I have already breaded through previously.
If I had to vote I would vote this AA guy out of this forum. Its presence is BAD for BC.

Some of us are guilty of occasionally reacting to a post by attacking the poster when we strongly disagree with their opinion. (myself included)
I think we all need to keep in mind, it is not important if we do or do not know the personal id of the poster.
They have a right to post their opinions and we need to be more respectful of that right and not attack them !!
Now...GO RAPTORS GO[/QUOTE]
My involvement in this conversation is purely sincere and is by no means intending any disrespect to anyone.

Birdnest points out the reality of how the "green" prospective of "precautionary principal" used against ff's or other industry is now it is being used to take out sportfishing privileges. I see the connection!! The same "green" based attitude which has been applied to ff's has been applied to us and it is likely the same people doing it.

I feel my efforts of exposing the entities who have infiltrated this excellent forum to continue pushing the same green movement that is also removing fishing rights from all of us is constructive work. I just wish everyone to be honest and up front here.

 

[Capilano]

These types of threads that denigrate into personal attacks along with stunningly unwarranted and wildly unproven accusations of agent provocateur behaviour against other forum members is the reason I (and probable many others), stay silent in this forum.

The fishing community has far more bigger issues to address and fight, however this will never, ever happen if the infighting in this forum cannot be first addressed.

A couple years ago I posted this quote here and at the time, it described the mood and feeling of this forum. And perhaps now, it is more fitting then ever.

I think now, looking back, we did not fight the enemy, we fought ourselves. The enemy was in us...

 

[Fishmyster]

These types of threads that denigrate into personal attacks along with stunningly unwarranted and wildly unproven accusations of agent provocateur behaviour against other forum members is the reason I (and probable many others), stay silent in this forum.

The fishing community has far more bigger issues to address and fight, however this will never, ever happen if the infighting in this forum cannot be first addressed.

A couple years ago I posted this quote here and at the time, it described the mood and feeling of this forum. And perhaps now, it is more fitting then ever.

I think now, looking back, we did not fight the enemy, we fought ourselves. The enemy was in us...

I know exactly what you mean. Yes the enemy is among and within some of us. Especially those of us who promote any precautionary principal against ff's or other industries "like sport fishing" as an acceptable standard for restrictions. Good timing on that quote!

You are claiming "the fishing community has bigger issues to fight". How about not segregating Canadians into individual groups here. Part of our issues are that all of us who aren't retired need some kind of industry to survive off of. Ffers, commercial fishermen, loggers and anyone else who works in a resource based industry should all be sticking together to real challenge of the "green" movement. It is the snowflake love the environment fantasy mentality that is always attacking the resource based industries and attacking sportfishing. The green movement has created an industry out of putting other industries out of business via politics and precautionary science. Now it has all been spun to make many people believe sportfishing has an influence on the fish populations or SRKW whale survival. Yep it is all a sad social situation here in Canada where many Canadians have been turning citizens against each other by the green attitude brainwashing.

This whole anti ff cult may have a lot of marketed community support but it is all just optics and politics in action, The effects of ff's doesn't hold a candle to the natural and unfortunate chemistry hurtles that have been effecting ecology in the real world. Too bad none of the engo's will ever face up to this. Wonder why that is???

 

[GLG]

Some seem to want to hit the bottom as quick as possible and they wonder why others disengage with their arguments.

 

[The Jackel]

Hi my name is MIKE, i probably drink too much red wine and yes i have inhaled, man that feels good to get that off my chest!!

 

[dradons]

I know exactly what you mean. Yes the enemy is among and within some of us. Especially those of us who promote any precautionary principal against ff's or other industries "like sport fishing" as an acceptable standard for restrictions. Good timing on that quote!

You are claiming "the fishing community has bigger issues to fight". How about not segregating Canadians into individual groups here. Part of our issues are that all of us who aren't retired need some kind of industry to survive off of. Ffers, commercial fishermen, loggers and anyone else who works in a resource based industry should all be sticking together to real challenge of the "green" movement. It is the snowflake love the environment fantasy mentality that is always attacking the resource based industries and attacking sportfishing. The green movement has created an industry out of putting other industries out of business via politics and precautionary science. Now it has all been spun to make many people believe sportfishing has an influence on the fish populations or SRKW whale survival. Yep it is all a sad social situation here in Canada where many Canadians have been turning citizens against each other by the green attitude brainwashing.

This whole anti ff cult may have a lot of marketed community support but it is all just optics and politics in action, The effects of ff's doesn't hold a candle to the natural and unfortunate chemistry hurtles that have been effecting ecology in the real world. Too bad none of the engo's will ever face up to this. Wonder why that is???

Ken,

Have a read through your post. You speak to not grouping Canadians into individual groups and then you proceed to group the resource sectors together and all the people in the so-called green movement together.

I think you are not being genuine to imply that the resource sector hasn't had an impact on Salmon populations. One very simple example from the logging industry of this is the log booms that have historically been in estuaries along the coast. These have caused damage to eelgrass and other estuary habitats grasses etc. Smolts then have nowhere to hide/be protected and are either picked of easy by pinnipeds or birds etc. Similar things can be said about the mining industry.

Personally, I don't think these industries should be banned or shut down. That being said, they should be regulated in such a way that environmental protections are put ahead of economics. If this makes me a terrible green brainwashed whatever you want to call me then fine.

For the record, I know none of the posters you mentioned above and my username has my full name in it. Look me up, we can go for a beer. I am a fair conversationalist!

Cheers,

Darren

 

[agentaqua]

Thanks for all your great posts dradons, Jackel, GLG, Capilano, Terrin & FI.

I think this debate has highlighted for me the fact that we really need and environmental review process for the open net-cage industry - where data/science is vetted and the discussion is moderated w tracking tables - and the onus is on the proponent to prove that they are not having any effects - or that the effects can be successfully moderated. Every other industry has had an environmental assessment - EXCEPT the one in the water - the open net-pen industry.

I find it disingenuous & dishonest that FF proponents expect that industry critics develop the data to prove that the industry is having an impact - shifting the burden of proof. I further find it extremely dishonest and disingenuous & hypocritical that even once that data and science is presented those proponents wish it to disappear by initiating Ad hominem attacks and minimizing the implications of data as instead being too much to read or absorb.

If - after many years of trying - I failed to get interest or acknowledgement of any pet theory I might wish support from experienced and informed researchers in the field - I think I would consider revising my theory or my approach. - or both. Silence is yet another answer and thanks for that informative graphic GLG.

 

[Birdsnest]

Agent. Can you address just 2 simple issues that I brought up earlier.

1. Rockfish can not carry prv.
2 After years of being corrected by myself and others are you going to continue to be dishonest ect.and purposefully misuse the the term disease in place of the term virus?

 

[wildmanyeah]

This is akin to the pipeline debate. Now amount of science will show the people that don't want them that they are okay. There is also enough science on both sides to equally muddy the discussions.

I find it disingenuous & dishonest that FF proponents expect that industry critics develop the data to prove that the industry is having an impact - shifting the burden of proof

I think the industry has produced a lot of its own reports but you just don't agree with them. When they hire a third party to produce the reports you make claims that they are paid off. When they hire their own scientists you make claims that they are paid FF shills. When left to the regulators, you make claims that DFO and CFIA are in bed with FF companies.

 

[agentaqua]

Not sure how far back your memory goes, WMY. Remember how the sea lice debate started?