S
sockeye seeker
Guest
In regards to "What can we do about it?" I just sent an email to Dr. K Martin MP directing him to this site to see what the local sports fishers think about fish farms in the water vs. on land.
FISH FARMS HAVE TO GO!!!!!!!
- Thread starter totally tyee
- Start date
First of all apologies if my post came off as arrogant or anything other than concerned about our rapidly dwindling salmon stocks. I did not mean to offend or upset anyone with my post. I am simply trying to make sure that we keep our eye on the main issue. A bit of history. I live to fish. I spend most, if not all of my free time fishing (not unlike most of you I am sure). I have a boat and fish Sooke and Port Renfrew all summer. I also take my two kids with me all the time. Some of you Sooke and Renfrew regulars may recognize me as I am out there with small kids almost every week end fishing in a older 22ft Campion. I am extremely passionate about it and have noticed that fishing has been getting slower and slower every year. This year was no exception. For the first time ever I was skunked in Renfrew. Not only once but three weeks in a row. Previous to that I had never been skunked up there. So there is definately an issue. I agree with most of you that DFO is part of the problem and definately not part of the solution (unless you disolve them and start over). However to point at farms to me seems silly. I am of the oppinion (a small minority I will admit) that farms may actually be the answer to saving salmon. Same as cattle farming helped save most of our wild game herds. At one time the Gov't Canada used to have full time hunters on the payroll. Their job was simply to provide meat for settlers and logging camps. Of course the end result was that most wild game disapeared. Anyway again I did not mean to insult anyone and apologize to those that have taken offense to what I have written. I am simply stating an oppinion, nothing more. Regards.
Red Monster
Well-Known Member
Barbender, this topic is about fish farms. If you actually know something about them, I'd love to hear it. We all would. If you don't agree with the new research, tell us what's wrong with it.
Yes, salmon stocks are being harmed in other ways too, but that doesn't make the harm caused by fish farms acceptable. So don't change the subject.
There's no order for doing things as you say there is. Regardless of what else is a problem for salmon stocks, we don't need to start with other problems before we attend to the fish farm problem. It's a problem, and it should be delt with now, period.
If you're passionate about salmon fishing, that's great. Me too. But if folks can BS their way past the fish farming problems, they can BS there way past all the other issues affecting salmon stocks too, BS there way past anything. Be passionate, but be logicall too. It's not enough to just say that everyone else is wrong, that it's all silly, that the research is just a waste of time.
Yes, salmon stocks are being harmed in other ways too, but that doesn't make the harm caused by fish farms acceptable. So don't change the subject.
There's no order for doing things as you say there is. Regardless of what else is a problem for salmon stocks, we don't need to start with other problems before we attend to the fish farm problem. It's a problem, and it should be delt with now, period.
If you're passionate about salmon fishing, that's great. Me too. But if folks can BS their way past the fish farming problems, they can BS there way past all the other issues affecting salmon stocks too, BS there way past anything. Be passionate, but be logicall too. It's not enough to just say that everyone else is wrong, that it's all silly, that the research is just a waste of time.
Red Monster
Well-Known Member
PS
Fish and cattle are not the same thing ...although I've been known to eat both.
Fish and cattle are not the same thing ...although I've been known to eat both.
B
battaglino
Guest
. Barbender
You must have different look at the wild game issue up there down here the ranchers where worried about there land being over grazed by the wild animals and would kill them. They also took much of their natural grazing land and fenced it off. The domestic stock that was brought in spread disease to the wild game. I think it just had the opposite effect on the wild animals in the US and will probably cause the same problems with the Salmon with loss of habitat and spreading of disease.
You must have different look at the wild game issue up there down here the ranchers where worried about there land being over grazed by the wild animals and would kill them. They also took much of their natural grazing land and fenced it off. The domestic stock that was brought in spread disease to the wild game. I think it just had the opposite effect on the wild animals in the US and will probably cause the same problems with the Salmon with loss of habitat and spreading of disease.
VANCOUVER, Anti-fish farm activist Alexandra Morton has been caught in a flip-flop that has seriously undermined her credibility and makes her attacks on salmon farming all the more questionable, said Dr. Patrick Moore, Greenpeace co-founder and Chairman and Chief Scientist of Greenspirit Strategies Ltd.
'In 2003, before it became clear that salmon returns in the Broughton Archipelago were recovering, Ms. Morton publicly stated that young pink salmon were being infected by sea lice from salmon farms, in spite of the fact farms in the area had been fallowed. Now, with data confirming pink salmon returns in the Broughton are on the rise, Morton claims it's a direct result of the farms having been fallowed,' Moore said.
'Her current position, which totally contradicts her earlier statement - and was conveniently developed after salmon returns in the Broughton were shown to be rising in 2004 - is that the fallowing of farms in 2003 created a safe corridor that allowed young pinks to pass by unharmed by sea lice,' said Moore.
'The allegation that salmon farms are infecting wild salmon with sea lice is central to the anti-fish farm argument. Ms. Morton's flip-flop goes straight to the credibility of that argument and to the credibility of her research,' said Moore. 'Which is it, Ms. Morton?'
In a March 3, 2003 news release from Morton's Raincoast Research and the Living Oceans Society, Morton is quoted as saying, 'My initial research shows that young pink salmon are infected with lethal numbers of sea lice in the area now designated as 'safe' ... As long as there are fish farms here, there is no safe place in the Broughton Archipelago for wild salmon. I tried to warn them of this, but they would not listen, adopting a farm-friendly plan instead.'
'Ms. Morton repeats this claim throughout 2003 in numerous media stories. The problem is the data show she's just plain wrong. When she's forced to recognize that pink 2004 returns are rising in the area, she apparently realizes her argument no longer holds water and does a complete turn-around,' said Moore.
Morton now claims on her website that because a corridor in the Broughton was fallowed of salmon farms, the 'affect was inescapable' and 'lice disappeared in the spring of 2003.'
'Ms. Morton has criticized Order of Canada recipient Dr. Dick Beamish for a recent peer reviewed study that demonstrated convincingly that salmon farms were having no negative impact on wild fish, suggesting Dr. Beamish discounted the impact of the fallowing,' Moore said.
'In criticizing Dr. Beamish, Ms. Morton appears to have forgotten that she herself discounted the fallowing in 2003,' said Moore.
'When rising salmon returns disprove Ms. Morton's theory, she simply changes her argument so that she can continue to attack sustainable salmon farming, irrespective of what the numbers say,' said Moore.
Here is a article thatI thought some of you might want to read. Just gives you a different take on a very sensitive issue.
'In 2003, before it became clear that salmon returns in the Broughton Archipelago were recovering, Ms. Morton publicly stated that young pink salmon were being infected by sea lice from salmon farms, in spite of the fact farms in the area had been fallowed. Now, with data confirming pink salmon returns in the Broughton are on the rise, Morton claims it's a direct result of the farms having been fallowed,' Moore said.
'Her current position, which totally contradicts her earlier statement - and was conveniently developed after salmon returns in the Broughton were shown to be rising in 2004 - is that the fallowing of farms in 2003 created a safe corridor that allowed young pinks to pass by unharmed by sea lice,' said Moore.
'The allegation that salmon farms are infecting wild salmon with sea lice is central to the anti-fish farm argument. Ms. Morton's flip-flop goes straight to the credibility of that argument and to the credibility of her research,' said Moore. 'Which is it, Ms. Morton?'
In a March 3, 2003 news release from Morton's Raincoast Research and the Living Oceans Society, Morton is quoted as saying, 'My initial research shows that young pink salmon are infected with lethal numbers of sea lice in the area now designated as 'safe' ... As long as there are fish farms here, there is no safe place in the Broughton Archipelago for wild salmon. I tried to warn them of this, but they would not listen, adopting a farm-friendly plan instead.'
'Ms. Morton repeats this claim throughout 2003 in numerous media stories. The problem is the data show she's just plain wrong. When she's forced to recognize that pink 2004 returns are rising in the area, she apparently realizes her argument no longer holds water and does a complete turn-around,' said Moore.
Morton now claims on her website that because a corridor in the Broughton was fallowed of salmon farms, the 'affect was inescapable' and 'lice disappeared in the spring of 2003.'
'Ms. Morton has criticized Order of Canada recipient Dr. Dick Beamish for a recent peer reviewed study that demonstrated convincingly that salmon farms were having no negative impact on wild fish, suggesting Dr. Beamish discounted the impact of the fallowing,' Moore said.
'In criticizing Dr. Beamish, Ms. Morton appears to have forgotten that she herself discounted the fallowing in 2003,' said Moore.
'When rising salmon returns disprove Ms. Morton's theory, she simply changes her argument so that she can continue to attack sustainable salmon farming, irrespective of what the numbers say,' said Moore.
Here is a article thatI thought some of you might want to read. Just gives you a different take on a very sensitive issue.
Red Monster
Well-Known Member
http://www.greenspiritstrategies.com/index.cfm
Thanks for the info, Bender. It's quite confusing, long on accusations, and short on support, but thanks for taking the time to share it.
The source of your piece (see the above link to Greenspirit Stratagies Ltd) has lots of well-written bafflegab funded by fish farmers and other industries who harm the environment.
I guess folks can justify most things, especially if they have lots of money and support. So light up a cigarette, buy a machine gun, and let loose a pack of pit bulls in your backyard: It's all good. Did I fail to offend anyone?
Thanks for the info, Bender. It's quite confusing, long on accusations, and short on support, but thanks for taking the time to share it.
The source of your piece (see the above link to Greenspirit Stratagies Ltd) has lots of well-written bafflegab funded by fish farmers and other industries who harm the environment.
I guess folks can justify most things, especially if they have lots of money and support. So light up a cigarette, buy a machine gun, and let loose a pack of pit bulls in your backyard: It's all good. Did I fail to offend anyone?
fishman69er
Member
is that not typical, you ask for more info, you get it then you find a way to shoot it down, now for a lttle back ground i worked on farms for 10 years, 5 years under the carefull watch of miss morton,and the next ten years on the west coast, wow what a difference total support out of tofino (of all places), you know why because most of the people that would normally be protestin where now givin jobs, hmm theres the almighty doller at work, as for fish farms killin wild stocks its just not true, has anybody noticed how that thing called gobal warming is affectting everything or how about all you old timers out there that killed every fish you ever caught(no disrespect), and well, how about the natives well, its not in the odds for the fish when they have to run a guantlet of nets in the rivers after they make it though the hoords of boats out on the chuck, have ya ever drove the logging roads during the derby weekend its ridiculus that there are that many boats out there,there are so many factors involved that i dont have the time to go into them all, but to say thats its just farmin thats killin the wild stocks would just be pigheaded and narrow minded but dont get me wrong i am not all for salmon farms, but not totally against them,things could be done better but the fact is as long as theres a demand there will be farms just as there is for beef,pig, chicken,etc. back to the support of information, well how many of these reports that are bad for fishfarms are done by people that dont want fishfarms(morton), it works both ways guys its all propaganda on both sides of the coin , so if you think what your readin is right and what the other guy is readin is B.S., then your fallin right into what THEY want, well, have fun with that
ensure the future , stop killin
practice c&r
ensure the future , stop killin
practice c&r
D
Dirtdog67
Guest
So glad to see you have not forgotten your upbringing on the rock.. Hope to hell your startin to freeze out there.lol. Sorry I never got back to ya the other night. Seems the shock has affected my short-term.
Just finished an evening over at Slick's.. A little late for that neck of the woods these day's.. AHH so good to finally see that b&^*$@d putting up with the upchuck and colic.. HAHAHAHAHA
I will be in touch over the next few 69'er.
As for that post, well put, in the sense that yes the harvest of ocean caught salmon is not nearly, how should I say reported and recorded, as to what the public sector is lead to believe.. If it is sought after by the disease we call humanity, then there is no hope in hell that any biological form has a chance of survival.. Just wait till overpopulation has to act on each other... Natures way of dealing with greed..
In closing, I too worked for a period of time under the eye of A. Morton, and yes given the area in question, the Broughton Group and it's pink returns are in trouble due to the abundance of sea-lice.. Look at the topography of the area in question, farms do cut all outside waters influence to Kingcome and Tribune channel streams..
-cheers THE DOG
p.s. kev, slick and I are geared up for a couple of days on the last weekend of the season, camper and all, we will call you when we head through P.A.later
Just finished an evening over at Slick's.. A little late for that neck of the woods these day's.. AHH so good to finally see that b&^*$@d putting up with the upchuck and colic.. HAHAHAHAHA
I will be in touch over the next few 69'er.
As for that post, well put, in the sense that yes the harvest of ocean caught salmon is not nearly, how should I say reported and recorded, as to what the public sector is lead to believe.. If it is sought after by the disease we call humanity, then there is no hope in hell that any biological form has a chance of survival.. Just wait till overpopulation has to act on each other... Natures way of dealing with greed..
In closing, I too worked for a period of time under the eye of A. Morton, and yes given the area in question, the Broughton Group and it's pink returns are in trouble due to the abundance of sea-lice.. Look at the topography of the area in question, farms do cut all outside waters influence to Kingcome and Tribune channel streams..
-cheers THE DOG
p.s. kev, slick and I are geared up for a couple of days on the last weekend of the season, camper and all, we will call you when we head through P.A.later
I am not sure what the answer is to be honest. There seems to be so much politics on both sides of the fence with regards to this subject. Seems as soon as one report comes out saying one thing another comes out saying the opposite. However there is one thing I know for sure. These low water levels will do more damage to salmon stocks than anything else. Salmon get highly stressed when they can't spawn and you can see them milling around trying to get up river. It is so sad. I took my son down on Sunday to the river mouth and all we could do was watch the fish swim around trying to get upriver. Pretty grim.
Dave H
Well-Known Member
Notwithstanding all of the above, if one looks only at the facts it's extremely easy to see what happens and how it happens.
Fact:
There are now anywhere from 20 to 30 million salmon living year round in an area where that never was the case before. They live in net-pens in roughly 80 different sites.
Fact: Sea lice occur naturally in this area.
Question: If 20 to 30 million new hosts for sea-lice suddenly appear in a relatively small area, and in most of the known migration avenues used by juvenile wild salmon, is it a really far reach to think that maybe, just maybe, those very same sea-lice will latch on to them?
Answer: Oh gee, I dunno Dave, what's the science say?
All the real science says the lice seen infecting wild juvenile salmon come from the many host sites for sea-lice that exist in the area.
All the BS artists hired by the industry or working for the government to try to counter the facts, (Moore, Beamish et al) try to confuse the issue by bringing up side issues, non-issues, creating strawman scenarios and the like but fortunately are so bad at it that only the very weak minded amongst the population could possibly be fooled.
It's not as if the industry wants this to happen but they have little control over it. In fact, a recent decision on whether to pursue a charge against a fish farm for introducing a deleterious substance to the waters (sea-lice) was based hugely on the one point that the industry has no control over sea-lice, they being endemic, so therefore couldn't be held responsible for them coming from their farms and infesting wild salmon. The science was examined by experts and found to be exemplary in all regards, giving a true and clear picture of what happens when migrations of juvenile wild salmon encounter coincidental hatches of sea-lice from the farms, but it couldn't be used in court to prove anything because the case wasn't pursued.
It seems strange then that other industry spokespeople claim that the industry DOES control sea-lice on their sites, so there's no problem.
One would think you can't have it both ways.
And another thing, comparing the fishing at Sooke, Renfrew or Ukee or Kyuquot and trying to relate it to the sea-lice problem in the Broughton is just dumb. Nothing to do with each other.
Think about where the farms are sited (Muchalat Inlet and area on west side and Broughton mostly this side) and look at the problem there. Anything else is just a distraction.
You might also want to remove the numbers of returning Pink salmon that return to the artificial spawning channels on the Glendale River and look at the returns in the other and unenhanced rivers before you start believing the industry crap that the Pink runs are as good as ever in the Broughton etc etc too.
And finally, what is the problem with the industry that they cannot just sit down with government and say, "Look, we know we have a problem with sea-lice. Let's use our combined knowledge and skills and work toward siting farms away from known migration routes and away from known salmon rivers."?
Why do they continually deny any problems and why does the government aid and abet them?
I dunno, but it's the sad truth that they do.
And you don't even want to start looking at whether the industry is sustainable over the long run as currently practised. The conversion rate for dead fish to fish meal and fish oil that is used to feed these farmed salmon is pretty bad.
And don't get caught up in the feed conversion rate game with the industry as they have been doing well at that lately, and given that feed is their highest cost it's no wonder.
But it's the ratio of dead fish to meal and oil that's important, not how many pounds of farmed salmon you can get from a pound of feed.
Use common sense and ask just the fundamental questions and it's all too apparent what is happening.
Work towards solving the problem and stop the campaign of denial, distraction and BS.
That's all I'm asking for.
Gotta go.
Take care.
Fact:
There are now anywhere from 20 to 30 million salmon living year round in an area where that never was the case before. They live in net-pens in roughly 80 different sites.
Fact: Sea lice occur naturally in this area.
Question: If 20 to 30 million new hosts for sea-lice suddenly appear in a relatively small area, and in most of the known migration avenues used by juvenile wild salmon, is it a really far reach to think that maybe, just maybe, those very same sea-lice will latch on to them?
Answer: Oh gee, I dunno Dave, what's the science say?
All the real science says the lice seen infecting wild juvenile salmon come from the many host sites for sea-lice that exist in the area.
All the BS artists hired by the industry or working for the government to try to counter the facts, (Moore, Beamish et al) try to confuse the issue by bringing up side issues, non-issues, creating strawman scenarios and the like but fortunately are so bad at it that only the very weak minded amongst the population could possibly be fooled.
It's not as if the industry wants this to happen but they have little control over it. In fact, a recent decision on whether to pursue a charge against a fish farm for introducing a deleterious substance to the waters (sea-lice) was based hugely on the one point that the industry has no control over sea-lice, they being endemic, so therefore couldn't be held responsible for them coming from their farms and infesting wild salmon. The science was examined by experts and found to be exemplary in all regards, giving a true and clear picture of what happens when migrations of juvenile wild salmon encounter coincidental hatches of sea-lice from the farms, but it couldn't be used in court to prove anything because the case wasn't pursued.
It seems strange then that other industry spokespeople claim that the industry DOES control sea-lice on their sites, so there's no problem.
One would think you can't have it both ways.
And another thing, comparing the fishing at Sooke, Renfrew or Ukee or Kyuquot and trying to relate it to the sea-lice problem in the Broughton is just dumb. Nothing to do with each other.
Think about where the farms are sited (Muchalat Inlet and area on west side and Broughton mostly this side) and look at the problem there. Anything else is just a distraction.
You might also want to remove the numbers of returning Pink salmon that return to the artificial spawning channels on the Glendale River and look at the returns in the other and unenhanced rivers before you start believing the industry crap that the Pink runs are as good as ever in the Broughton etc etc too.
And finally, what is the problem with the industry that they cannot just sit down with government and say, "Look, we know we have a problem with sea-lice. Let's use our combined knowledge and skills and work toward siting farms away from known migration routes and away from known salmon rivers."?
Why do they continually deny any problems and why does the government aid and abet them?
I dunno, but it's the sad truth that they do.
And you don't even want to start looking at whether the industry is sustainable over the long run as currently practised. The conversion rate for dead fish to fish meal and fish oil that is used to feed these farmed salmon is pretty bad.
And don't get caught up in the feed conversion rate game with the industry as they have been doing well at that lately, and given that feed is their highest cost it's no wonder.
But it's the ratio of dead fish to meal and oil that's important, not how many pounds of farmed salmon you can get from a pound of feed.
Use common sense and ask just the fundamental questions and it's all too apparent what is happening.
Work towards solving the problem and stop the campaign of denial, distraction and BS.
That's all I'm asking for.
Gotta go.
Take care.
wolf
Well-Known Member
I agree totally we DO have a problem now with this "sea Lice" thing how come now it has happend mmmmmmm because there were no fish farms at these places before maybe the farms caused it nah that could'nt be all that toxic waste sitting on the bottom killing every thing under a pen last time I checked something that has hosts parasite,lice, maggots etc you try and get rid of the problem. The only thing I hope for it is done soon not later so we still have a fishery.We do have to work to get it resolved thats all!!!!
Wolf
Wolf
fishman69er
Member
dirty, whats up, didnt think you still visited this site , looked back a few posts and didnt see ya, ya missed your call the other night, so give me a ring this weekend if ya get the chance, where ya headin , oh never mind i know already, i was lookin forward to hearin about the last trip, oh well fill me in later,well its off to pumpkin carvin at the boys school, hey do you remember that other site you know the one i used to post on i can remmeber, try to recall for me anywho to to fly
ensure the future C&R
you killer you
ensure the future C&R
you killer you
Red Monster
Well-Known Member
Did anybody see the article in the sun a while ago about the marine biologist who is raising freshwater salmon on land? Interesting idea; hope it works. The guy pointed out that because there's alway a disease risk when mixing domesic and wild animals (diseases like bovine flu for cattle and avion flu with birds), farming salmon in the ocean will inevitably cause diseases to spread among wild and farmed salmon with potentially disasterous effects.
Farming salmon in the ocean is always a risk for wild salmon, and especially near critical migration routes.
Should we be surprised or confused when a fox claims that foxes pose no risk to hen houses? Before it's too late we need to release the hounds!
Farming salmon in the ocean is always a risk for wild salmon, and especially near critical migration routes.
Should we be surprised or confused when a fox claims that foxes pose no risk to hen houses? Before it's too late we need to release the hounds!
fishman69er
Member
first off let me start by wolfs comment, thats ridiculous, what have you ever caght a fish before, well i guess not one with sealice on it, what do you think that the farm salmon are inventing these sealice, dont get me wrong i know that the presence of the farms is increasing the sea lice problems but you make it sound like there were NO sealice before fishfarms, funny, and have you ever even been under a fishfarm, or is that just what you have read? i am guessin the ladder, do you know that most farms are under a couple hundred feet of water or more, hard to see whats goin on down there, again dont get me wrong, there are farms that are in shallower water and if there is no tide you do get build up, and this is one of the problems, but hey i am not here to change your thoughts, just shed some knowledgeable light on a very dark subject.
as for what red had to say, well yes i agree it would be good to farm on land and it has been tryed many times over many years but this always seem to go wrong, there is a on land site just south of nanaimo that has been around for about 20 years but no one can never make it work , costs to much money to run and maintain,there was another system they were testin years ago, its called the bag system, it was tested in departure bay and i thought it was doin well, it just replaces the net pen with a selfcontained bag but again the cost to run these is very high, i dont know if they are still with this or not, well thats all, in conclusion its not that i am for fishfarms but we as people need to do things right and you dont find out the right way with out doin it the wrong way first example logging, comercial fishing, and look where those industries are now,, well most people that worked in them are now you guessd it FISHFARMERS
ensure the future, catch and release
as for what red had to say, well yes i agree it would be good to farm on land and it has been tryed many times over many years but this always seem to go wrong, there is a on land site just south of nanaimo that has been around for about 20 years but no one can never make it work , costs to much money to run and maintain,there was another system they were testin years ago, its called the bag system, it was tested in departure bay and i thought it was doin well, it just replaces the net pen with a selfcontained bag but again the cost to run these is very high, i dont know if they are still with this or not, well thats all, in conclusion its not that i am for fishfarms but we as people need to do things right and you dont find out the right way with out doin it the wrong way first example logging, comercial fishing, and look where those industries are now,, well most people that worked in them are now you guessd it FISHFARMERS
ensure the future, catch and release
R
rainbow one
Guest
If there is any doubt with anyone that fish farming is not the right thing to do then Don't eat these fish and pass this point on to everyone that you know. I would never support such an unatural way of raising wildlife and then eat that stuff. Until there is no doubt that this type of farming is not damaging the wild stocks, environment etc then it is up for everyones personal take on it. If you don't agree with it then DON'T EAT IT.
wolf
Well-Known Member
HEY 69er I have seen enough with my own eyes and if you read this whole post i was refering to a spot up in knight inlet please look back as to what I said.All i am saying and stating that yes there is sea lice always but when you got some place putting that much food and fish **** poop in the water dont you think an outbreak of sea lice is going to be there???? it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out if theres a food source it going to populate more and more when ever I run through sargaunts pass there is sometimes a real nice slick near it because the water doesnt move a whole lot in there and it seems they like to put them in little protected bays.
Now that you brought up the subjet of on land farming I personally dont give a rats butt if it is too expensive to run we have to go this route. if the wild run get wiped out our province is going to suffer more from the lost of tourisim, theres more money brought in from sport fishing then from fish farming and I know thats a fact dont have the figures but I am sure someone on here will find it.I am not against it at all I think we have to but put it in a controlled environment so we can regulate whats going on and not destroy our waters macant you see that.
Wolf
Now that you brought up the subjet of on land farming I personally dont give a rats butt if it is too expensive to run we have to go this route. if the wild run get wiped out our province is going to suffer more from the lost of tourisim, theres more money brought in from sport fishing then from fish farming and I know thats a fact dont have the figures but I am sure someone on here will find it.I am not against it at all I think we have to but put it in a controlled environment so we can regulate whats going on and not destroy our waters macant you see that.
Wolf
fishman69er
Member
well, well, well, the one comment that i was waitin for has finally come up, hey rainbow, do you not eat any meat, or veggies, or anything that is farmed, because if you dont well then your statment about how "you would never support a unnatural way of raisin wildlife and then eat it", has some merit, if you do eat these things then , well ,do you think that cattle, pig, chicken farms are so called natural, do you not think that they dont use chemicals and things to make all raised food grow faster ,bigger, better,egg to chicken in less than 24 hours, NATURAL,hmmm, think about it.
as for wolfs comments, well, if youve been on the bottem of a fish farm and seen with your own two eyes then well i guess i am sorry to have doubted you,and i am sure glad that you dont give a rats butt if it cost to much money, it has to be done, well theres that site in nanaimo, why dont you fire it up, but in reallity i guess the people that have tryed to do it and have failed dont know anything , and as for the fact that sportfishing bring in more than fish farms , well thats kind of a kick in the butt as well is it not, think about it , shut down all the farms , put theses coastal communities at risk of, possiable extinction,bring in more SPORT fishermen and let all those guys catch and kill all the fish they can now therees no fish left, so i guess you will be bitchin about the sportfishermen 20 years down the road, but hey the farms are gone, now the coastal towns have gone under and nobody has any jobs because theres no loggin, no fishin,no fishfarms, now theres no tourisam, because the sporties have wiped out the entire wild stock, so what now???
pretty grim future eh,
this is all because we jumped on the bandwagon to shut down fishfarms instead of makein them better, just like we did with the loggin and the comercial fishing, well not so much the fishing, but the loggin,well thats about all i have for now so have fun with that. oh and remember ensure the future practice C&R
as for wolfs comments, well, if youve been on the bottem of a fish farm and seen with your own two eyes then well i guess i am sorry to have doubted you,and i am sure glad that you dont give a rats butt if it cost to much money, it has to be done, well theres that site in nanaimo, why dont you fire it up, but in reallity i guess the people that have tryed to do it and have failed dont know anything , and as for the fact that sportfishing bring in more than fish farms , well thats kind of a kick in the butt as well is it not, think about it , shut down all the farms , put theses coastal communities at risk of, possiable extinction,bring in more SPORT fishermen and let all those guys catch and kill all the fish they can now therees no fish left, so i guess you will be bitchin about the sportfishermen 20 years down the road, but hey the farms are gone, now the coastal towns have gone under and nobody has any jobs because theres no loggin, no fishin,no fishfarms, now theres no tourisam, because the sporties have wiped out the entire wild stock, so what now???
pretty grim future eh,
this is all because we jumped on the bandwagon to shut down fishfarms instead of makein them better, just like we did with the loggin and the comercial fishing, well not so much the fishing, but the loggin,well thats about all i have for now so have fun with that. oh and remember ensure the future practice C&R
scott craven
Well-Known Member
hey 69'er. if we all listened to your pessimistic outlook
on the state of the saltwater fishery, we might as well
go put our heads in the oven.
If we ever get some proper management by DFO both on land and
on water, the fishery will survive.
on the state of the saltwater fishery, we might as well
go put our heads in the oven.
If we ever get some proper management by DFO both on land and
on water, the fishery will survive.
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