Ethanol in Gas

Peahead

Well-Known Member
Warning about using vehicle gas in your boat if you have an outboard motor older than 5 years. As far as I have found almost all gas you buy at the gas stations for vehicles states having up to 10% ethanol. I have found Chevron's 94 octane super premium to have no ethanol but on the flip side that octane level is too high for older outboards from my understanding.
Beware of using gas with ethanol for your older outboard motors - see thread titled "Husky/ Mohawk boat gas".
 
Higher octane levels will not hurt an engine. If the engine is a low combustion setup it just won't make any use of the higher octane and is like flushing the extra money down the toilet.
 
I have to admit I am a bit confused about this topic, so hopefully somebody can help me out.

If you buy regular gas on Vancouver Island at a Shell, Esso, Chevron or PetroCan does it have any ethanol in it? If not when, by 2015?

Is all marine/marked fuel in Canada free of ethanol?

Long live wild salmon!!!
><))))>
 
I live on the mainland, so I can't say about the stations on the island. I believe the province has mandated that gas sold in the province is to contain at least 5% bio fuel as of the beginning of this year. Not sure if some Marine stations are selling ethanol free gas, or if some marine stations contain ethanol as well.

Anyone who can clarify the marine ethanol content issue please chime in.
 
I am not a marine mechanic but I did ask this question Americans, who have 15% ethanol in all their gas. I don't think it is such a performance issue. They said the problem is more to due with the rubbers and gaskets in the fuel system. The ethanol can make these components rot over time. As stated newer engines have different fuel components.
There is a fuel conditioner that they use in the USA that I believe takes care of this. Other here may have more knowledge.

Eastpoint
 
I believe most of the western states are running 10% ethanol. The most widely recommended fuel additive is Marine Stabil, which is designed to prevent degradation of older marine fuel components.
 
Yeah I have discussed this with a few people in the last few days and this is what I have found out and heard: Not necessarily fact but what I have heard.

- Ethanol desroys gas lines, gaskets in older outboards( pre 2005 ?) and some gas tanks (older ones made of fiberglass and some plastics)

- Marine ( mid grade) gas at Sewells Marina has no ethanol ( possibly many more marine gas establishments have no ethanol in gas ....I am still unsure if marine gas has to follow same regs as cars in Canada (has to have at least 5 % ethanol -rule starting in Jan 2010) and if it doesn't, will the oil comapies produce and provide gas with no ethanol to marine gas floats in Canada? and if so, for how long ???

- 94 octane car gas at Chevron and Esso station is advertized to have no ethanol in it right now. All other grades of gas advertise "contains up to 10 % ethanol)

- If you use marine grade stabilizer in your gas you protect your motor from the problems ethanol can cause.

Changing your water sep filter very regularily will help.
 
Thank you Don, that should cover most questions, it has in my case.:D:D

IMG_1445.jpg
 
I recently joined the co-op stations so that I can buy their marked and get their year end rebate. I asked about ethanol and they assure me that the Victoria bought marked has none added. Duncan and Mill Bay do have it added to theirs. I was buying from Shell but the Sooke Rd stations dropped marked gas this winter. So I dropped them after about 20 + years.
 
I guess if you're in doubt about more than 10% ethanol in the fuel you need to use fuel stabilizer to every tank - kinda expensive and a hassle, but what else can you do?

Long live wild salmon!!!
><))))>
 
There is a fuel additive/conditioner called Seafoam. It keeps your carbs nice and clean and your rubbers from rotting. Available at NAPA.
 
I live in Campbell River and get most my gas from Petrocan card lock, ( mid grade) I asked the attendant,and he said there fuel has no ethanol in it.
 
Bump/update

FYI : Just talked to a gas attendant at Esso vehicle gas station in Lynn Valley, NVan. Even though all their gas pumps state having gas with up to 10% Ethanol, the fellow there insisted to me that their 91 octane supreme gas contains NO ethanol. He stated their 87 octane regular and 89 octane mid grade gas both contain "up to 10 percent Ethanol" but their 91 is free of Ethanol. At $1.23 per liter, the Esso 91 octane supreme, with no ethanol , is a good choice but still more cost than Sewells Marina's lower octane marine mid grade ( I assume 89 octane) with no ethanol. Right now is $1.20/liter.
At Chevron vehicle gas stations the only gas with no Ethanol is their 94 Octane (which is obviously more expensive due to higher octane level - at approx $1.27) Since paying for higher Octane for my outboard is a waste of my money, I'll stick to Esso's 91 octane car gas or Sewells Marina's marine mid grade ( or other marine stations mid grade )to get my Ethanol-free gas.
 
The coal harbour barge sells gas with "no" ethanol. Their diesel contains 5% biofuel.

If you have an older aluminum fuel tank, the ethanol will eat away at the aluminum and eventually rot out the tank.
 
I heard a lot that ethanol eats plastic and fiberglass. This is the first that I heard it eats aluminum tanks. How does it do this?

Long live wild salmon!!!
><))))>
 
I found this paper on the web. Gives a pretty good explanation of the problems with ethanol. FYI


The Negative Affects of Ethanol on Recreational Boat Fuel Systems

The National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) opposes the use of marine fuels that contain greater than 10% ethanol content by volume. This position is based on safety and durability concerns and supported by many well documented studies.

According to state boating registrations, there are over 12 million recreational boats in the United States. Boat builders utilize five types of materials to fabricate fuel tanks. These are aluminum, steel, cross-link polyethylene, high density polyethylene and fiberglass. For a rough estimate of today’s numbers, there are approximately four million boats that have aluminum fuel tanks; approximately seven million have steel or polyethylene tanks, and less than one million have fiberglass tanks. The data clearly indicates that the increased use of ethanol in gasoline has raised safety and durability issues for aluminum and fiberglass fuel tanks.

Aluminum Fuel Tanks

In the case of aluminum tanks, aluminum is a highly conductive metal that relies on an oxide layer for its corrosion protection properties. Low levels of ethanol, such as E10 (10%), are usually not a problem in aluminum tanks because the oxide layer provides a good measure of protection. The problem occurs when the ethanol content is increased.

There are two mechanisms that occur with ethanol. Both mechanisms are a result of the hydroscopic property of ethanol, meaning it absorbs water. The more ethanol in the fuel, the more water there will be in the fuel tank. Water not only causes the tank to corrode, it also causes the corrosion particles to clog fuel filters, fuel systems, and damage engine components. The corrosion rate can be accelerated under a number of conditions if other contaminating metals are present such as copper which may be picked up from brass fittings or as a low level contaminant in the aluminum alloy. Chloride, which is a chemical found in salt water, will also accelerate corrosion. In the long term, corrosion can perforate the aluminum to produce leaks that would cause fuel to spill into the bilge and end up in the environment. In the worse case it could cause a fire and/or explosion hazard. Boat fuel tanks are often located under the deck next to the engine where the operator might not be aware of a leak until it was too late. .

The second mechanism that can occurs with the increased use of ethanol based fuel in aluminum tanks is galvanic corrosion. Gasoline fuel is not conductive, but the presence of ethanol or ethanol and water will conduct electricity. The galvanic process that occurs to aluminum trim tabs, stern drives, shaft couplings, etc. will occur within the aluminum fuel tank. Boat builders are able to protect exterior aluminum boat equipment with sacrificial anodes known as zincs. Sacrificial anodes are not a feasible option for the interior of a fuel tank.



Fiberglass Fuel Tanks

NMMA is in the early stage of evaluating the effects that ethanol in gasoline has on fiberglass tanks. Boat U.S., the boater advocacy association, recently issue a consumer alert reporting that owners of older yachts have experienced leaking fiberglass fuel tanks. There have also been reports of heavy black deposits on the intake valves of marine engines resulting in bent push rods, pistons and valves. Some of the preliminary analysis conducted by an independent lab found the deposits to be di-iso octyl phalate, a chemical found in the resin, gel coat and filler used to make fiberglass fuel tanks.

An initial theory is that when ethanol is introduced to the fuel tank the very small ethanol molecules diffuse into pores between the resin where they dissolve the unreacted phalates. Since the phalates are in solution they are able to pass through the fuel line filters. These phalates have exceptionally high temperature stability and remain intact when the fuel evaporates in the carburetor or undergo only partial decomposition in the combustion chamber thus creating the heavy black deposits on the engine’s intake valves.

Unlike aluminum, NMMA has yet to identify the effect that ethanol in fuel has on the tanks integrity or even the root cause of dissolved phalates. The theory is that it is being caused by ethanol and we know that ethanol dissolves phalates, but more testing is currently being conducted.

Conclusion

As stated in the opening paragraph, the NMMA has serious safety and durability concerns with the incremental increase in ethanol content in gasoline motor fuel. The majority of marine engines in use today are open loop systems that are designed, engineered and calibrated at the factory to operate with fuel containing either 10% MTBE or ethanol. Changing the fuel that these engines were designed, engineered and calibrated for will negatively effect drivability, exhaust and evaporative emissions, and potentially damage the components.

While these issues are significant, the boaters have a far more serious issue. The available data indicates that aluminum and fiberglass fuel tanks and butyl rubber fuel hoses that are currently being used will fail if the ethanol content is increased to 20%. That is not an emissions issue; it is not a drivability or durability issue. It is an issue that needs to be taken far more seriously. It is a threat to the health and safety of the boaters in your state.
 
Ethenol in gasoline is a real issue with older equipment. If you must use it be sure to carry extra fuel filters with you. The ethonol is a very powerful solvent that with clean any build up of garbage in your tanks or fuel lines. In addition it is much more sensitive to water in that it will cause "faze seperation" of the fuel.This causes all sorts of issues around fuel quality. Currently ethonol will be only in on-road gasoline blends with the exception of premium grades. It will not be in fuels on Vancouver island at this time. All marine grade marked gasoline in the lower mainland is currently ethenol free . As stated previously all marine diesel will be B-5 by the end of May. Avoid ethenol in marine equipment whenever possible
 
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