Electoral Reform Referendum

How will you vote?

  • I am in favour

    Votes: 30 34.5%
  • I am against it

    Votes: 56 64.4%
  • I don't plan to vote

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • Total voters
    87
I actually believe there are some advantages to a PR system, and this result was more a reflection of a fatally flawed process that left all the details to a biased partisan process. It was solidly rejected and rightly so. If this comes back again, in 6 or 8 years it should be with a fully fleshed out proposal and transparent process. Maybe the result will be different.

I dunno - the last electoral reform referendum had a fully fleshed out proposal and a transparent process and it was rejected by a similar vote split.

Looking at the riding results, it's clear that for the most part the only areas that supported PR were the Victoria area and some urban Vancouver ridings while the vast majority of suburban metro Vancouver and rural BC ridings supported FPTP.

In terms of Casper's comment regarding the stupidity of people who did not vote, I might suggest that people who chose not to vote (as we have the right to do in a democracy) did not do so because they lack intelligence, but rather because they were prepared to live with whatever the result of the referendum. In other words, they're politically ambivalent in terms of the governance of the Province.

Finally, 71 of 87 ridings voted to retain FPTP which is a pretty good indication that both NDP and BC Liberal supporters are quite happy with the existing system. It is obvious to me, at least, that while there may well be some advantages to a PR system. BC'ers who care about such things still favour the advantages of the current system.
 
I never said people that did not vote were stupid, I was referring to the people that did vote and did not fill out the form properly. I fully support people that did or did not vote for what ever reason. But if you did and couldn't follow simple instructions that doesn't say much about your mental ability.
 
I never said people that did not vote were stupid, I was referring to the people that did vote and did not fill out the form properly. I fully support people that did or did not vote for what ever reason. But if you did and couldn't follow simple instructions that doesn't say much about your mental ability.

"Yes it proves that 1.9 million British Columbians are stupid and can't follow simple instructions in filling out a important ballot."

Sorry, Casper, I don't see any interpretation other than 1.9 million BC'ers (presumably those who didn't vote) are stupid when 1.4 (+/-) million actually voted with only 2400 rejected ballots.
 
"Yes it proves that 1.9 million British Columbians are stupid and can't follow simple instructions in filling out a important ballot."

Sorry, Casper, I don't see any interpretation other than 1.9 million BC'ers (presumably those who didn't vote) are stupid when 1.4 (+/-) million actually voted with only 2400 rejected ballots.
You are correct Bigbruce my bad. I miss read foxsea's post and went from there. You are correct that there was 2400 rejected votes by stupid people. Lol. Makes me feel better that we have a smarter BC population. Again my apologies
 
I voted for PR but at the time it was pretty clear to me that the referendum would fail. People are rightly wary about changes to fundamental rules like how we vote. The PR campaign didn't provide a clearly better model than what we have now. I was willing to give it a chance for two election cycles but I respect that the majority of people were not.

The aspect for which I have little respect is those who just viewed this as a way to hurt the current government and throw support behind their preferred party. This was a non partisan issue and yet you chose to make it partisan. Careful consideration of the single issue at question was asked of you, but you chose to carry on with party politics. The same thinking got the HST thrown out despite it being a simpler and fairer tax system, and then the liberals - who introduced said tax in a most underhanded way - were rewarded with another term.

Not every vote is a general election.
 
This was a non partisan issue and yet you chose to make it partisan. Careful consideration of the single issue at question was asked of you, but you chose to carry on with party politics.

Not every vote is a general election.
Are you kidding? Non partisan? A big reason this failed was because the process was so partisan. Once a general system was approved all the details of how it worked would be decided by the NDP/Greens. "Trust us, it will be good", was all Horgan/Weaver would say.
 
Are you kidding? Non partisan? A big reason this failed was because the process was so partisan. Once a general system was approved all the details of how it worked would be decided by the NDP/Greens. "Trust us, it will be good", was all Horgan/Weaver would say.

I absolutely agree with this. I agree it failed not because the issue at hand but the bottom line, the fine print was as california points out, the NDP/Greens could make up the rules. Nobody knew enough about what they were actually voting for. This is very telling of these two partys IMHO. Total garbage.
A huge problem that we have now as out door sports enthusiasts is that urban centres are already steering political decisions that effect rural communities and activities. I dont see much of a change to this in the future and PR certainly wasn't going to move voting power on rural issues to members of rural areas.
 
Are you kidding? Non partisan? A big reason this failed was because the process was so partisan. Once a general system was approved all the details of how it worked would be decided by the NDP/Greens. "Trust us, it will be good", was all Horgan/Weaver would say.
Thanks California, your statement was THE reason my vote was FPTP. Only because the same Gov who have lied over and over asked me to "trust" them for details after I voted. If done correct and NON Partisan maybe the outcome would have been better.

HM
 
B.C. did all of Canada a favour with its vote on electoral reform
It was the latest in a losing streak that includes failed efforts in Ontario, Ottawa and Prince Edward Island

British Columbia’s government hasn’t exactly acted as a bulwark of Canadian national interests of late. It’s too busy blocking Alberta’s ability to ship its oil via a new pipeline, while at the same time eagerly consuming said oil, building numerous pipelines to ship B.C. natural gas and enjoying the benefits of Vancouver’s massive coal shipping terminal.

But it did recently do the rest of us a service, largely by accident. In calling a referendum on its electoral system, consummately bungling the job and thus producing a ringing victory for good old first-past-the-post. This is the third time B.C. has tried to sneak “reform” past its population, and the third time it’s failed. In the latest vote, opposition actually increased: 61 per cent rejected the proposal; only 39 per cent favoured it. Fewer than 43 per cent of voters bothered to cast a ballot. It’s the latest in a losing streak that includes failed efforts in Ontario, Ottawa and Prince Edward Island. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Liberals abandoned a national reform plan when it became obvious Canadians weren’t enthused, and didn’t favour Trudeau’s personal choice in any case.

With any luck, this latest failure will put to rest the notion that Canadians are mad keen on changing the way we elect governments, especially among politicians who then decry the system that got them their job and launch some convoluted effort to change it all to a system no one understands.

Electoral reform is one of those ideas, like socialism and the NHL shootout, that may sound good in theory but doesn’t work well in practice. It belongs in that grab bag of brainstorms that spills open every once in a while when some bright political spark decides he/she needs a “vision” to sell to an electorate that is presumably distracted enough not to notice the details don’t add up. It lives out there with that other ageless bad idea, “Hey, let’s build a high-speed train from Quebec to Windsor,” which overlooks the fact both terminal points are pleasant enough places that remain outside the main growth corridor precisely because of distance and the fact not enough people feel a compelling reason to go there, especially by a high-speed train that would cost billions more to build than politicians will admit or would ever be recouped.

Electoral reform might not be as pricey as pointless train projects, but shares a critical similarity in that it seeks to remedy a problem that doesn’t exist. “If it ain’t broke,” goes the aphorism, “don’t fix it.” Canada ain’t broken, in any way, shape or form. One of our biggest ongoing issues relates to the need to operate a fair and efficient method of handling the enormous worldwide demand from people who would rather live here than where they live now. If Canada operates a grossly unfair and inefficient means of choosing governments, all those would-be immigrants don’t appear to have noticed. They just see a country that works far better than almost anywhere else.

Electoral reformists argue that the existing system isn’t fair because it doesn’t closely reflect the breakdown in votes; a party can get less than one vote in four and capture a majority, good for four years of power. This is definitely an oddity, but it doesn’t seem to have hurt much, judging by 150+ years of results, or by the notable absence of evidence that countries with convoluted voting systems are better run.

Denmark claims to have one of the world’s “fairest” electoral systems, in that its Parliament closely reflects the breakdown in party support. That may be so, but I defy anyone to explain the system to the average Canadian voter without the help of flashcards and a Sesame Street-level simplification process. Here’s a very small sample from the official Danish parliamentary web site, which runs to 34 pages.
“Of the nationwide 175 seats, 135 are constituency seats which are distributed among the ten multi-member constituencies, while the remaining 40 seats are compensatory seats, which are distributed among the three electoral provinces as part of the higher tier (i.e. national) seat allocation.
“Thus, before an election takes place it is clearly established how many of the 135 constituency seats each of the ten multi-member constituencies shall return. It is also known how many of the 40 compensatory seats each of the three electoral provinces shall return. Depending on the actual outcome of the election, the 40 compensatory seats will eventually be further allocated to individual multi-member constituencies within the provinces to which they were first allocated.”

No doubt Danes have a basic understanding of how this works, and it all turns out OK in the end, but is it seriously any more desirable than FPTP, which can be explained on a cocktail napkin? (The candidate with the most votes wins, the party with the most winning candidates gets to form a government. Once in a while they may have to team up with another party, but it never lasts long.) And is Denmark any better run?

Electoral reform is popular mainly among parties that see it as a way of getting more power, or consolidating what they have. Canada’s Greens and New Democrats think it would garner them more seats, and a bigger voice in government. Liberals think it would let them dominate the majority of future governments, by favouring leftwing groups that could then be given small, unimportant roles in a Liberal-led coalition. When Justin Trudeau declared his devotion to electoral reform, it was because his people reckoned it would be immensely beneficial to Liberal fortunes, and bad for Conservatives, whatever other impact it might have on the country. It wasn’t about you, folks, it was about them.

B.C. Premier John Horgan’s New Democrats got 39.7 per cent of the vote in the last provincial election, more than four points behind the Liberals. His government is propped up by three Green members. If voters were eager for more of such arrangements they would presumably have supported a change to make such coalitions more frequent. They didn’t — for the third time. Quebec only lost two referendums before watching the independence notion fade; voting reformists have held four across Canada and lost them all.

“I think electoral reform is finished,” said deputy premier Carole James. “The public has clearly spoken. As elected officials you always know the public is right.”

Hah! Not always, but maybe this time, if we’re lucky.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/ke...da-a-favour-with-its-vote-on-electoral-reform

And with that I concur...

Cheers,
Nog
 
Thanks California, your statement was THE reason my vote was FPTP. Only because the same Gov who have lied over and over asked me to "trust" them for details after I voted. If done correct and NON Partisan maybe the outcome would have been better.

HM
For sure part of the downfall was that unlike the previous attempt, there was never a non partisan committee chosen to select a system, iron out the details and present a finished product as an option to the voters. Instead this referendum was thrown together behind closed doors by the government in power, the questions designed by the Attorney General, and the Government MLA’s ordered by Cabinet to hit the bricks in support of PR. Both the Government and the Green Party rallied their supporters to pass the PR on the promise they, the Greens and NDP,would sort out the details at a later date! I can’t imagine how this could have been more partisan!
 
I think if the NDP really wanted pro rep to pass, they would have done it differently and made the referendum question simple. They and the Liberals both stood to lose market share under pro rep, the real gains to be had would go to the Greens. My take is the referendum was done to retain Green support and the questions and options were deliberately made confusing so as to let it fail. I still viewed it as a chance to test a potential improvement to the electoral system.
 
I think if the NDP really wanted pro rep to pass, they would have done it differently and made the referendum question simple. They and the Liberals both stood to lose market share under pro rep, the real gains to be had would go to the Greens. My take is the referendum was done to retain Green support and the questions and options were deliberately made confusing so as to let it fail....
Codswallop.
 
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