Maxpri
Well-Known Member
All good man
Driving an EV pickup
- Thread starter sly_karma
- Start date
sly_karma
Crew Member
How many squares in the EV bingo card does this one mark off?Hi, I think we have the most EV’s in Canada because we have the warmest weather in Canada and I don’t believe the battery would hold a charge during winter time anywhere else.
The correct price for electricity is “user pay”. I would not count on freebies in the future. The plan right now is to get us out of our gas guzzlers and into vehicles which limit our freedom to travel as we choose.
I like to go to remote locations.
What I dont get is people who think they are saving the environment by going E-V.
The amount of mining thats involved and the method is immoral. And much of the electricity is at times generated from “dirty” sources. And the disposal of the batteries are a nightmare. I don’t know if they can be recycled.
Please keep this thread updated. Everything is all rosy now, being shiny and new, but I would be curious as to how safe from electrical malfunction E-V’s actually are. Also I would be interested in their eventual resale value.
Thanks
Haverodwilltravel
Member
What’s the traction like on slippery roads?
fish brain
Crew Member
Considering they have sensors that won't allow you to spin out on acceleration, and regenerative breaking. Traction is better than most ICE vehicles on the road.
sly_karma
Crew Member
Stock tires have been ok so far up at Apex, but today the winter's first real snowfall at valley bottom was at 0°C, so road surfaces were slippery and waxy. They weren't particularly impressive here, but not awful.
Regen, if used abruptly, is no different from braking too sharply for conditions. You get a series of tiny slip-and-grips as the deceleration exceeds traction, sort of a subdued version of ABS engagement. Once you have the vehicle slowed, though, descending steep grades is simple, just drive down at the desired speed. The truck won't go faster than your right foot tells it to, you don't have to brake or gear down. As usual in winter, looking ahead and being gentler on acceleration amd braking is the answer.
Regen, if used abruptly, is no different from braking too sharply for conditions. You get a series of tiny slip-and-grips as the deceleration exceeds traction, sort of a subdued version of ABS engagement. Once you have the vehicle slowed, though, descending steep grades is simple, just drive down at the desired speed. The truck won't go faster than your right foot tells it to, you don't have to brake or gear down. As usual in winter, looking ahead and being gentler on acceleration amd braking is the answer.
Haverodwilltravel
Member
sly_karma
Crew Member
I mentioned previously how quickly Lightning heats up cabin and defrosts the glass. But yesterday when it was snowing heavily, I found a downside to that. I was running a bunch of errands around town, lumber yard, different suppliers, etc, and the snow kept accumulating quickly. Every time I got back in, it went through the same rapid defrost. In a gas truck, this would be "free of cost" because the engine is warm now and waste heat gets everything clear. But EV has no waste heat, from an energy use point of view it's like starting from cold. I drove maybe 30 km all day but used 80 km of range! But whatever, plug in at home and all full in morning. On a longer trip you wouldn't have the snow accumulation etc so this wouldn't be an issue.
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Haverodwilltravel
Member
So if it’s winter and you are in and out of the cab when its pouring rain, I guess you would need to have the defrost and heat on constantly to keep the inside of the windows clear. Maybe just get an independent portable heater that can blow hot air.
sly_karma
Crew Member
1. I live in the Okanagan, not much rain any time of year. 10 mm in 24 hours is a big day for us!
2. I need to look up the owners manual to figure out defrost on low heat and fan settings. Using defrost button on the dash brings up screen menus, which I don't want to look at while driving. I suspect this is an F150 issue and not EV specific.
3. Some owners in the Lightning forum have indeed used a cube heater to save energy on a longer trip. The onboard heat system uses up to 5 kW when its heating element is on max, whereas the little plug in heaters top out at 1.5 kW. Personally, I wouldn't bother, it's gonna take the same energy to heat that cabin either way, you don't need to use all of that 5 kW all the time, it's just a matter of learning to control the damn thing! Also there will be some energy losses inverting DC power (main battery system) to AC for the power outlet.
Haverodwilltravel
Member
It’s gonna be a pretty cold spell for a few days. It will be interesting to see how the battery range holds out.
Do you park in a heated garage?
Do you park in a heated garage?
sly_karma
Crew Member
No, outside by house. So far it seems like the rough rule of 1% range loss for every degree below 20°C is about right.
Preconditioning the battery before departing on a long trip is a big help. At the moment, the only way to do this is to set a departure time in the Ford app. Not everyone commutes each day, and not all long trips start at a predictable time. Ford owners have been asking Ford to add a button in the app to start preconditioning now, nothing so far. Tesla and Hyundai both have it. Surely it can be done in an over the air software update.
Preconditioning the battery before departing on a long trip is a big help. At the moment, the only way to do this is to set a departure time in the Ford app. Not everyone commutes each day, and not all long trips start at a predictable time. Ford owners have been asking Ford to add a button in the app to start preconditioning now, nothing so far. Tesla and Hyundai both have it. Surely it can be done in an over the air software update.
sly_karma
Crew Member
The GOM is all over the place with the arrival of cold weather. Yesterday morning, preconditioned at the scheduled departure time, it showed range of 320 km (battery at 90% charge). Drive to job site in town, couple short trips for tools/materials then 6 hours parked at the job. Battery has cooled off, along with the air temp (-16), the GOM is showing 80% charge but only 200 km of range. The driving earlier in the day was with heat running of course, so energy use high for km driven. A history of cold starts and heater use in the days prior probably also contributed to the calculations.
I don't trust these numbers, but only a longer trip of at least an hour will show what's really happening with range in the cold. The truck knows what's happened recently so it uses that information to calculate range available, but that doesn't help with what is to come. Hence why Ford owners refer to the range indicator as the Guess-O-Meter.
From here on, I'm plugging in every night and setting departure time for the morning so the battery is preconditioned. Nice to see that the Chargepoint home charger cable remains flexible and easy to handle in -20 weather. Favorable reviews on this point were a part of my choice of this model.
I don't trust these numbers, but only a longer trip of at least an hour will show what's really happening with range in the cold. The truck knows what's happened recently so it uses that information to calculate range available, but that doesn't help with what is to come. Hence why Ford owners refer to the range indicator as the Guess-O-Meter.
From here on, I'm plugging in every night and setting departure time for the morning so the battery is preconditioned. Nice to see that the Chargepoint home charger cable remains flexible and easy to handle in -20 weather. Favorable reviews on this point were a part of my choice of this model.
Max123
Well-Known Member
I'm curious, is the cab heater just electric resistance or does it use a heat pump (or both)? Most heat pumps don't work well at all below about -20C.
Any report on a trip to Apex in current conditions? I just checked the mountain report: -32C plus windchill... Based on your previous calc of -1% for every degree below 20C, you are basically starting with half charge. I imagine coming back to the truck after its sat in the lot for 6 hours, the range must be low, but at least its all downhill home.
They have a charger in the parking lot, but I think that's only if you are staying in the lodge.
In fairness, skiing in -30C is a terrible idea anyway.
Any report on a trip to Apex in current conditions? I just checked the mountain report: -32C plus windchill... Based on your previous calc of -1% for every degree below 20C, you are basically starting with half charge. I imagine coming back to the truck after its sat in the lot for 6 hours, the range must be low, but at least its all downhill home.
They have a charger in the parking lot, but I think that's only if you are staying in the lodge.
In fairness, skiing in -30C is a terrible idea anyway.
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sly_karma
Crew Member
Moot point, Apex has all lifts closed today due to cold. Although I do need to go up there sometime this weekend to grab my skis and stuff for a trip to Sun Peaks the weekend after this.
The cabin heat and battery temp management systems are each powered by a 5 kW resistance coil; the battery management system can and will pull heat from the HVAC coil briefly if needed. Ford are introducing a heat pump for MY2024, which will provide a nice boost in efficiency. From what I've gleaned from online interviews with Ford CEO and product leads, the development team were short on time to hit the product launch date, so they went with mostly existing Ford parts in this area. I'm guessing they'll leave the coil heaters in place and have the controls pull them online for rapid warmup and extreme cold conditions.
Which ChargePoint charger do you have?
sly_karma
Crew Member
Chargepoint Flex Home. Set for 40 amps as that was the most my 100A service could handle. Derate 25% as per code, so it charges at 32A for a flow rate of 8 kW. The amp setting is via internal dip switches so it can't be inadvertently changed in the app. There are cheaper chargers out there, but I went looking for ratings and reviews that indicated a cable that stayed flexible in the cold, and a good reporting system so I can justify my energy use to CRA for tax purposes.
sly_karma
Crew Member
Cold weather is here. Range loss is real, but not as bad as led to believe. Last night we went to a hockey game, and I plugged in beforehand and set a departure time so cab and battery were both warm. Dash showed 90% and 306 km at -20°C, which is the same range I was seeing at 0°C.
3.5 hours later back home after 10 minute drive each way, cabin heater plus heated seats and wheel going strong. No precondition for the return trip: 86% and 230 km range.
The lesson here: a warm battery is a happy battery. Leaving with a cold battery means the BMS directs a big wad of energy into heating the battery, energy that is not available for propelling the vehicle forward. You'll get near-normal range by preconditioning, and on a longer trip, the heat discharged by driving the truck would mostly offset the cold weather without using battery energy.
The other item is range loss after a cold start isn't as bad as the 1% per degree below 20 rule of thumb would suggest. It's about right at 0, but -22 means predicted 42% range loss. Let's do some math...
Nominal range at 20°C: 385 km
90% range at 20: 346 km
90% range at 0: 306 km (88% of 20° range/12% loss)
88% range at -22°C: 230 km (68% of 20° range/32% loss)
So we are seeing about a third of range lost, whereas the 'rule' suggests almost half. Better than expected is always good!
The big lesson for me is precondition whenever possible, avoid most of the range loss altogether. Not always possible of course.
Another gratifying thing is the truck and the home charger haven't hesitated to combine amd start charging immediately when I plug in. Lithium tool batteries usually have to warm up a bit before they take a charge, but obviously the vehicle has a much more sophisticated set of management tools for this.
3.5 hours later back home after 10 minute drive each way, cabin heater plus heated seats and wheel going strong. No precondition for the return trip: 86% and 230 km range.
The lesson here: a warm battery is a happy battery. Leaving with a cold battery means the BMS directs a big wad of energy into heating the battery, energy that is not available for propelling the vehicle forward. You'll get near-normal range by preconditioning, and on a longer trip, the heat discharged by driving the truck would mostly offset the cold weather without using battery energy.
The other item is range loss after a cold start isn't as bad as the 1% per degree below 20 rule of thumb would suggest. It's about right at 0, but -22 means predicted 42% range loss. Let's do some math...
Nominal range at 20°C: 385 km
90% range at 20: 346 km
90% range at 0: 306 km (88% of 20° range/12% loss)
88% range at -22°C: 230 km (68% of 20° range/32% loss)
So we are seeing about a third of range lost, whereas the 'rule' suggests almost half. Better than expected is always good!
The big lesson for me is precondition whenever possible, avoid most of the range loss altogether. Not always possible of course.
Another gratifying thing is the truck and the home charger haven't hesitated to combine amd start charging immediately when I plug in. Lithium tool batteries usually have to warm up a bit before they take a charge, but obviously the vehicle has a much more sophisticated set of management tools for this.
I'm up here now. It's cold and everything is closed. Bummer. This was the annual ski trip. Cars are starting, but they are laboring. Not electric trucks.
sly_karma
Crew Member
My Aussie friends at Apex have rental Ford Explorer for Aussie friends that wouldn't start in the cold yesterday. I think there's a way to boost direct from Lightning, but I didn't feel like learning how at -30. Was planning to use the trusty Noco GB70 booster pack, but they received a boost from someone else before I had to leave. I lent them an extension cord last night and showed them how to plug in the block heater. Not something you do in Australia! I'm told it fired up fine this morning.
Going to Apex and back is fine, it just uses more battery than when it's warmer. Today, that 75 km round trip used 150 km of range, whereas normally it uses 100-120 km (big climbs are tough on energy and you don't get all of it back on the descent). I stayed for a few hours and had lunch amd coffee with my friends, so the truck was cold for the trip home. Instead of picking up 30+ km of range on the descent, it barely gained 10 km. Regen was working fine, but the BMS directed most of that power into reheating the battery.
I'm going to Sun Peaks to work a race next weekend and feeling fairly confident. Temps won't be as cold, but I can see that by leaving with a preconditioned battery and not making any long stops, I'll get close to 300 km. In theory that gets me to SP in one shot, but I'll charge in Kamloops anyway so I have plenty of cushion for the climb to the resort, and can just plug into 110V at my friend's place so I leave with a full charge.
Going to Apex and back is fine, it just uses more battery than when it's warmer. Today, that 75 km round trip used 150 km of range, whereas normally it uses 100-120 km (big climbs are tough on energy and you don't get all of it back on the descent). I stayed for a few hours and had lunch amd coffee with my friends, so the truck was cold for the trip home. Instead of picking up 30+ km of range on the descent, it barely gained 10 km. Regen was working fine, but the BMS directed most of that power into reheating the battery.
I'm going to Sun Peaks to work a race next weekend and feeling fairly confident. Temps won't be as cold, but I can see that by leaving with a preconditioned battery and not making any long stops, I'll get close to 300 km. In theory that gets me to SP in one shot, but I'll charge in Kamloops anyway so I have plenty of cushion for the climb to the resort, and can just plug into 110V at my friend's place so I leave with a full charge.
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