Do Salmon Hatcheries Work?

[John_Reynolds]

With all this pessimism from reelfast, I guess they will be selling all their fishing gear and making a sizable tax deductible donation to the Sooke Salmon Enhancement Society to put the fish ladders in so the wild stocks can get up the Sooke River.

 

[searun]

Guys, the real issue here is over exploitation led to a spiraling cycle of overfishing during cycles of poor ocean survival. We are all to blame, and the poor management systems in place have not helped control exploitation rates because the science never over-rides the political manipulation of the fish managers. Hatcheries were one technical fix to that problem. We got to produce fish in an artificial environment to make up for the short-comings of our poor allocation management policies. Until we can find permanent repairs to the allocation problem, I do think we are stuck with utilizing technical fixes to off set poor management practice. Having said all that, I also maintain that part of the problem has been we tend to fail to understand that to be successful at improving fish production we need to use a balanced approach to augmentation programs. I would advocate we need hatcheries combined with habitat improvement and stream fertilization that target enhancement of all natural fish species. In other words, we have to move away from single fixes to problems and become more diversified in our attempts to improve fish production.

 

[chris73]

Very true, searun! Mind you, most Enhancement Societies conduct a variety of projects from shoreline cleaning to spawning bed restoration, spawning channel construction, riparian zone replanting etc etc etc

 

[fisher69]

quote:what we have here are quotas set by the commerical fishing lobbys which translate to overfished stocks, everywhere. of course these folks are interested in making bucks and will fish in the most cost efficient manner possible to maximize ROI, gill nets. all that does is excaberate the problems because they are the one killing the last remaining wild fish, they call it 'by catch'.

Sorry Reelfast got to disagree with you. The sooner the different sectors start working together the better the chances to turn this around. Sports, commercial and native should be shoulder to shoulder screaming at DFO about total mismanagement.

We can whine and complain all we want but it appears the Alaskan's have found away around this so why are we so slow?

One other quick point. While I was talking with the manager of the hatchery in Alaska he did make the statement that "If hatchery fish are inferior, then why are the hatchery fisheries thriving and the wild stocks still declining?"

build them and fill them

 

[cammer]

Reel fast, you just commented on bus loads of foreigners coming into the hood and taking over,(without knowing what to do in the environment!). Well if their so unknowing and dumb , then how do they survive and grow to normal sizes, evade predators, find their way back and become "specimens" of their species. You cant tell me these fish aren't as FIT as their wild brethern in the end, i agree they started like the replacement soldiers in world war 2, but after a few battles these fish become willy vets and deserve respect for surviving enormous odds in the wild

 

[Charlie]

If you want to save salmon from extinction... you best be supporting the enhancement programs, in particularly hatcheries! In years to come it may be their only chance for survival! There are some things we can and do control, but some are beyond us! One of these is the climate. Everyone needs to do their part to help, but it is changing.

"Climate Change"

In general, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC, 2007) concludes that climate change will strain many of North America’s water resources, increasing the competition for water. A warmer climate will affect the seasonable availability of water by increasing evaporation and reducing snowpacks. The Columbia River and other heavily used water systems of western North America are expected to be particularly vulnerable. Groundwater-based systems in the Southwest are also likely to be stressed by climate change. Heavier precipitation will very likely increase waterborne diseases and affect water quality, and higher variability of precipitation will make water management more difficult.

Potential water resource impacts for North America are listed below by region. (IPCC, 2001 and IPCC, 2007)

Alaska
The state is lightly settled and abundant in water resources. Potential ecological, hydropower, and flood impacts include:
• Increased spring flood risks
• Glacial retreat/disappearance in south, advance in north; impacts on flows, stream ecology
• Increased stress on salmon, other fish species
• Flooding of coastal wetlands
• Changes in estuary salinity/ecology
• Increased frequency of intense precipitation events - increased risk of flash floods

Northwest
The Pacific Northwest has a large and rapidly growing population, particularly along the coast; with lightly populated rural areas. Water abundance decreases from north to south. The region relies heavily on irrigation for agriculture and on hydropower for electricity production. These uses, along with endangered species issues, are increasing competition for water in the region.• Rise in snow line in winter-spring, possible increases in snowfall, earlier snowmelt, more frequent rain on snow, changes in seasonal streamflow, possible reductions in summer streamflow, reduced summer soil moisture
• Possible increases in annual runoff in Cascades
• Changes in lake and stream ecology - warmwater species benefiting; damage to coldwater species (e.g. trout and salmon)

Has anyone seen a "sunfish" or "mackerel" lately? Or has anyone noticed an increase in the water temp? Or, how about the upcoming "tuna" fishery due to warmer currents coming up from the south? This all has to do with the climate changing which is affecting our salmon escapements. I think they refer to this as "evolution" and it is happening!

We all need to do our part!
Just my 2 cents!

 

[wolf]

After the SFABmeeting you can see why we need hatcheries when it was brought forward about cowichan chinooks!!!!! the last decade it is dwindled down to the point that it may go on the endangered list and why because they know where they swim past alaska,charlottes etc. then down to here and from what I heard they are getting intercepted by commercial and FN then sporties.

so what will happen we as fisherman on both sides of the coast will be getting limited on our fishery for springs just because of it!!!!!!!!!!

Remeber the saying lonely at the top well thats big business and we as fisherman are on the bottom which is very quite apperent after coming out of that meeting and you know when the **** hits up top it flows all the way down hill and guess who wears it!!!!!!

Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

 

[Little Hawk]

Howdy,

Good stuff here!

Yes we need to ramp-up the hatcheries. Yes we all need to say "#uck the DFO!" and join in to help the hatchery people and 'git'er-done!'

But we should never (NEVER) forsake the Wild Pacific Salmon. Each run is genetically distinct and took several millennia to get that way and is an indicator species for the overall health of any particular ecosystem.

When 'Wild' fish are done, we got big-problems... like more fishfarms.

And for those of you who haven't read this yet, please take a few minutes and do so, and like me, you won't be so quick to jump on the latest 'Climate-change' bandwagon...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/an_open_letter_from_the_viscou_1.html

Cheers,
Terry

Wild Salmon Alliance

 

[fisher69]

quote:
Remeber the saying lonely at the top well thats big business and we as fisherman are on the bottom which is very quite apperent after coming out of that meeting and you know when the **** hits up top it flows all the way down hill and guess who wears it!!!!!!

I thought lodge and charter operators were big business???

 

[wolf]

No we are not and when will you figure that out we help in the econmy big time, if you have any doubts look at the TAC fo haiblut 88/12 is that big business 12 % uuuuum No.

Dont you think every thing about fishing is political for instance our halibut fishery the commercial boys from what i heard at that meeting were short 880,000 lbs our cut of the pie is 1.2 mil. and they are worried about our quota?????????WTF

Who owns a major stake in Can packers?????? Oh thats right muti trillionare Jimmy patterson if you dont think for one moment that he didnt phone or chat to a politician to get more privalages for his companies and commercial fleet you are in the dark. look at what he personally did to alot of his workers with save on foods closing the business laying them all off for a bit then rehiring at a drastically lower pay very nice!!!!!!!!

Now that is big business!!!!!!!!


Wolf

 

[reelfast]

let me say that i really appreciate this disucssion and the points many of you are making, good to share notions openly.

yes, i am pessimistic. that comes from watching fish runs go extinct. the politicians don't give a damn and are unwilling to lift a finger to take on commercial interests. the various fish commissions who are supposed to examine the science before setting allocations have come down on over harvest for decades. now we factor in climate change, perhaps a 1 degree of water temperature change and a stressed fishery goes belly up.

hatcheries were put in place to pump out more clones for the commercial folks to harvest. that was their one and only purpose for coming into existence. and why was that? simply because the commerical interests were overharvesting wild fishes and needed a replacement.

sorry, but the science is very clear regarding survival rates of hatchery fishes. and yes the are 'inferior' in terms of their abiilty to deal with a hostile environment. if left to themselves, most of these fish apparently won't even spawn. its good to read some of the more 'put you to sleep' science before making statements that hatchery fishes are equivalent to wild fishes.

the trend along the coast seems to be moving toward harvest 'shares'. that might be a way to mitigate some of the overharvest but i am doubtfull as human beings greedy for a buck are going to find a way around any regulation. nope, i am coming to the conclusion that ocean harvest needs to be shut down for everyone while some solutions are thought through. california and oregon did that this past year and i am waiting to see what sorts of returns they may realize from their actions.

if you think things are so rosy and the hatcheries are filling the gaps, then explain what happened to the southern orcas. speculation right now is they starved to death even with hatcheries pumping out millions of smolts. that suggests that a hatchery solution is not working, has never worked and simply masks the basic problems we all see every time we head out to fish.

 

[scott craven]

I understand your position on this Reelfast, but without the hatcheries
we will likely have no salmon within the next few years.
In my opinion, a hatchery salmon is better than none at all.

 

[Last Chance]

A lot of the literature surrounding hatcheries is quite grim, but the Victoria winter fishery is so productive (As in amazingly so, comprable to the offshore banks in the summer), and the bulk of those fish (As in around 7 our of 10 for me), are 8-16lb hatchery fish. They have lived well beyond the smolt stage, and are entering adulthood. If they don't return as well spawn, that may be one issue, but the establishment of a large scale put and take fishery may be the only way to really take the stress off of the wild stocks while still allowing sport/commercial/FN fishing, which, not matter what happens, is not likeley to go away.

As explained at the SFAB meeting, the hatchery program was given 40 million in the early 70's to bring the stocks back after being decimated, which they did. They now get by on around 27 million per year, so taking into account inflation, they work with %10 of the budget they had back when they were working well. They need more money, plain and simple.

I'm probably setting myslef up to be crucified for the following suggestions here, but increased license costs (Provided the costs STAY in enhancement), would be a good way to go about it. When you look at the potential, a sport fishing license is so cheap but allows the potential for so much.

I'm working with numbers I've heard in passing, but out of the 300,000 salt water anglers in BC, 100,000 of them buy a salmon stamp. Make a salt license cost around $80-$100, put some serious legislation in place to keep that money for sport fishing enhancement and quota, and you will NEVER ever see sporties struggling again to buy quota or fund a hatchery.


Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

 

[fish4all]

quote:Originally posted by wolf

No we are not and when will you figure that out we help in the econmy big time, if you have any doubts look at the TAC fo haiblut 88/12 is that big business 12 % uuuuum No.

so langara lodge and Bob are not big business... give your head a shake man. There is a 1/2 mile ribbon boundry around the entire Queen Charlotte Island that is sports only.

The commercial fleet has been reduced by 2/3 yet you still point the fingers. The 1200+ charter vessels that fish 7 days a week are having a huge impact on fish stocks.

So now that the springs (that have pretty much been given to the sports fleet) are gone, you want to target something else.



I

 

[chris73]

Why does your text read the same as your name?

 

[scott craven]

quote:

I'm working with numbers I've heard in passing, but out of the 300,000 salt water anglers in BC, 100,000 of them buy a salmon stamp. Make a salt license cost around $80-$100, put some serious legislation in place to keep that money for sport fishing enhancement and quota, and you will NEVER ever see sporties struggling again to buy quota or fund a hatchery.

quote:

Good suggestion, i would be prepared to pay double my annual fee if
i knew the money was going into enhancement and not into general
revenue, however it is a federal Gov't dept.
How in the world would the $$$ ever get back here into the right hands ??

 

[wolf]

RS i asked the same question the other day at the meeting for every 6 dollers that go into habitat conservation fund we on the west coast get 1 buck just wondering how many salmon,halibut,prawn are in alberta,sask,and manitoba (besides in someones freezer)

What a joke 1 measly buck i would really like to see the break down of where and what that money goes to beside b.c. which i bet contibutes the most to it???????.

Anyways I tired of all this I am going on vac to relax

"GONE HUNTING"


WOLF

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

 

[fish4all]

28 million last year went to "consultations" with natives about aquiring commercial quota in land claims.

I have no problem with Gov't spending money and doing the consulting but why did the money come out of fisheries when it should have come from indian affairs.

28 mill would go a long way to get our hatcheries up to speed.

 

[richmake]

quote:Originally posted by bullcrap


28 million last year went to "consultations" with natives about aquiring commercial quota in land claims.

I have no problem with Gov't spending money and doing the consulting but why did the money come out of fisheries when it should have come from indian affairs.

28 mill would go a long way to get our hatcheries up to speed.

I agree

www.coastwidesportsfishing.com

 

[Last Chance]

quote:Originally posted by bullcrap


28 million last year went to "consultations" with natives about aquiring commercial quota in land claims.

I have no problem with Gov't spending money and doing the consulting but why did the money come out of fisheries when it should have come from indian affairs.

28 mill would go a long way to get our hatcheries up to speed.

Well put. It's amazing how many of these ventures never see the light of day. How did you come across this?

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com