Did I just invent a new super strong knot?

[TheBigGuy]

I was playing around today to come up with a new knot with the tag end coming out from the bottom end of the knot. I usually use the San Diego Jam knot as it is extremely strong and easy to tie. The San Diego Jam knot is a great knot, but I don't like that the tag end comes out at the top. The tag end pointing upwards can catch weeds easily, and it puts the hook off kilter if rigging a hoochy with beads.

I was looking for something stronger than an improved clinch knot that has the tag end coming out the bottom. The trilene knot has the tag coming out the bottom, but it's only marginally stronger than the improved clinch knot. So I started playing around combining the Trilene knot with the improved clinch knot, and I was shocked to find the knot I came up with would break the San Diego Jam Knot.

The SDJK tests out as one of the strongest knots around, so I was kind of stunned it broke first. I used 25 lb line tied to two similar hooks or swivels and was doing a simple unscientific pull test to see which knot would break first.

I next tested this new knot against the Uni, Palomar, and the Trilene knots. As those are some of the most widely used and respected knots around. In my simple break tests the new knot bested all the others when tying a fresh knot. It even broke the other knots when I hadn't retied it and had stressed it with several prior break tests.

This kind of blew my mind as this new knot was kicking all the best knots buts in a simple break off contest. Maybe this knot I came up with has been around for awhile and I just haven't noticed it anywhere online. Please test it out and let me know what you think. If you've seen this knot before please post the name it has. If it hasn't been developed by anyone else I guess I've got dibs on naming it.

It is a very simple and easy knot to tie that combines the best aspects of both the trilene and the improved clinch knot. I settled on only three turns as that seemed the most reliable version that I tested.

I hope my home drawn picture is able to get the tying instructions across adequately. The first step is to form a loop around the eye of the hook or swivel by passing the tag end though twice. Hold the line around the eye, pinching the loop so it is exposed. Take the tag end and wrap it over and around the mainline three turns. Take the tag end and put it through the loop at the eye (from behind). Then take the tag end coming out of the loop and put it through the gap between the top of the turns. Go through the gap from the front, and exit from the rear.


Wet the knot with some spit, and tighten up the knot snugly. I hope my directions are clear enough with my diagram to try this knot out. It seems like a great knot in the limited testing I have done. Please let me know what you think.

 

[TheBigGuy]

BTW if you are tying it on a hook with a bent eye, start the knot by passing the line through from the backside of the hook. It seems to tie better on an octopus hook that way.

 

[bigdogeh]

I think that's one of the knots I usually use... isn't that an improved clinch knot? except with an extra loop through the eye? I usually tie mine just like you've shown I believe. I like the extra loop through the eye. i think it takes a bit of strain off the single loop to double it.

 

[TheBigGuy]

Yes that's basically what it is. It just like the improved clinch knot, but with an extra loop around the eye. It's obviously a huge improvement over that knot because an improved clinch won't beat all those other knots in a break test. The improved clinch knot is always pretty low in comparison to those other knots in break strength.

I don't understand how if this knot is known and it is superior to those other knots how is it not getting exposure for its great strength. I was shocked how strong this knot is.

 

[fogged in]

Strongest knot I have found is the Palomar
Good for all lines including braided (spiderwire)
http://www.berkley-fishing.com/Berkley-ae-how-to-tie-a-palomar-knot.html

 

[TheBigGuy]

I actually just found a link to this knot with tie diagrams. It identifies this knot as the trilene knot. It is wrong this is definitely not a trilene knot.

http://www.bassfishingandcatching.com/trilene-knot.html

 

[TheBigGuy]

This knot snapped the Palomar in all my tests. In a couple of tests against the Palomar neither knot broke, but the line snapped in the middle. A pretty good indication it is at least as good as the Palomar, if not better.

The Palomar is not easy to use in some situations. It's awkward when tying some lures on because you must pass it all the way around them. Better for a single hook or swivel.

 

[wildthing]

strangulation just use a needle knot or plamor

 

[TheBigGuy]

This knot was stronger than the Palomar in my tests. I just tested it out against the Tuna Knot which is a very strong doubled line deep sea fishing knot. To my surprise, it broke the Tuna Knot off.

A needle knot isn't exactly the easiest to tie on a rocking boat either.

 

[gungadin]

Is this it, or at least a close imitation?

http://www.tackletactics.co.nz/double-loop-clinch.html

 

[bigdogeh]

Is this it, or at least a close imitation?

http://www.tackletactics.co.nz/double-loop-clinch.html

close, but the tag end needs to come back through the loop at the twist.

 

[TheBigGuy]

what bigdog said. except I was only using 3 turns.

 

[bones]

but why.....

 

[TheBigGuy]

Why was I only using three turns? I started with all sorts of different types of variations of different knots. When I first hit on this one, I was only using three turns. It was breaking all the other knots with three turns. I upped it to 4 turns and the first knot I tested it against it snapped. The extra loop through the eye makes it a little harder to snug up and seat the turns compared to an improved Clinch knot. So when it broke on a test with 4 turns, I just took it as an indication that more wraps weren't necessarily better. Maybe I just tied a poor knot with 4 turns and that's why it broke. It just seemed easier to tie and seat correctly with only 3 turns, so I stayed with three wraps for all my testing.

Maybe more wraps when tied correctly would increase the strength, but if it makes the knot harder to get just right, then you will have more failures. That's why I just stayed at 3 wraps. Seemed to seat the knot easier and better.

 

[TheBigGuy]

These are better diagrams of how to tie the knot I'm talking about. The diagrams are mistakenly labeled as a Trilene Knot. This variation is not a Trilene Knot as stated in the pictures. This is exactly how I have been tying this knot, except I have been using only 3 wraps.




REVISED: This knot is apperently called the Improved Trilene Knot.

 

[gungadin]

Inproved trilene, but with fewer wraps
http://streamtime.blogspot.ca/2009/03/double-improved-clinch-step-by-step.html

 

[TheBigGuy]

Well there you go. It Is not an unknown knot, but there is next to no info on this knot on the internet. My Google searches turned up nothing on any knot sites. Not sure how you found that info cause I sure couldn't.

This knot realy deserves more exposure because It's extremely stong and has no learning curve for anyone who already knows the improved clinch knot.

 

[bigdogeh]

but why.....

to keep from having a 40-50 #'er cause a pigtail in the end of your leader. and the profanities that go with it...
don't ask me how I know... lesson learned many years ago on a river up north.

 

[TheBigGuy]

I just tested this knot against the Palomar in 60 lb test fluorocarban. The Improved Trilene Knot broke off the Palomar knot with no problem. I wasn't sure if I could even easily break 60 lb test, that's why I was testing it with 25 lb line prior to this.

The Palomar just didn't seem to tie easily with the heavy fluorocarban line. From what I've read the Palomar is a poor choice for tying fluorocarban line as it breaks easily on flouro (like a lot of other knots). The Improved Trilene Knot seemed to tie exceptionally well in fluorocarban. From what I've read the clinch or improved clinch, or double improved clinch are some of the best choices for flouro knots. This knot is from the same family of clinch knots, so I was expecting it would do well on flouro. I was actually surprised how well it tied with 3 wraps on the heavy test flouro. I think I'm about to start using flouro again more often now with this knot. I'd kind of stopped using it because it was often hard to tie a good knot with it. This knot tied up very easily and seated with no trouble at all. I think this knot is something guys should try if your using flouro, and having issues with your knots.

 

[gungadin]

I like to tie a fast and easy knot in all my salmon gear, the fastest and simplest for me are the palomar and cinch knots. All of my monofiliment mainlines are 25lb test. The drags are all set light, and the rods are rather limber. I think knot strength is overrated when sportfishing for salmon , many a tyee has been caught on 20lb test. I do replace all my mono leaders, and change up my 100 ft mono mainline often though.
With the rods and reels we use today imo it is near to impossible to approach the breaking strength of the 25lb line I am using, unless you are horsing the fish, the line is damaged, or it has deteriorated.