compass deveiation gremlin
- Thread starter Fish Camp
- Start date
Gear'n'beer!
Well-Known Member
Man I love your posts
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
I generally like to have a dash mounted and spare compass on board for any trips offshore. I'm old school and a compass is your best friend in the fog. That being said, I don't have a deviant gremlin living inside my boats compass. If I did, I would seriously consider removing the compass housing such a vile creature from my boat ASAP. If the gremlin living in your compass has already reproduced and spread to your ancillary systems more drastic measures may be required. If removing the compass where the gremlin resides does not rid your boat of these destructive little bastards you have few alternatives. I would consider contacting a practicing exorcist or licensed exterminator before the gremlins multiply beyond the point of possible extirpation. If the exorcist or exterminator routes fail you are probably only left with the insurance write off option to rid yourself of the foul little beasts. Do not consider a fire on your home premises as they will often jump ship, only resulting in them taking up residence in your home. Burial at sea is the only method to truly ensure that the gremlins have gone down with the ship. Make sure you study your marine charts carefully to make sure the boat goes down in at least 2000 feet of water. You wouldn't want the insurance company to be able to salvage the vessel, as the gremlins would then only return with a terrifying vengeance.
As with any advice given over the Internet your mileage may vary. Do not follow any advice given over the Internet without first consulting a good accountant, lawyer, or mental health practitioner. Good luck with the gremlins.
As with any advice given over the Internet your mileage may vary. Do not follow any advice given over the Internet without first consulting a good accountant, lawyer, or mental health practitioner. Good luck with the gremlins.
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TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
That's an awesome scientific explanation of magnetic declination AA, thanks for posting. Of course, it will not remedy issues caused by a deviant gremlin. If the boat has become infested with those nasty critters a simple calibration will not resolve the issue. In that situation more drastic measures must be taken (see above post). Or possibly follow the tips on dealing with gremlins below:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090820065939AAFQ74p
http://encyclopedia.creepyhollows.com/article_darkarts_gremlin.html
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33644156
As I already suggested, please don't follow any internet advice without a competent professional consultation. Gremlins can be vicious if provoked, especially the deviant gremlins. Proceed with caution, and under no circumstances give them any advance warning of what you are planning. From your prior posts I can tell you are a master at obfuscation, so you should have no problem concealing your true plans from the unsuspecting gremlins. Good luck, and you may perhaps want to increase your boat insurance and medical/drug plan coverage before proceeding.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090820065939AAFQ74p
http://encyclopedia.creepyhollows.com/article_darkarts_gremlin.html
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33644156
As I already suggested, please don't follow any internet advice without a competent professional consultation. Gremlins can be vicious if provoked, especially the deviant gremlins. Proceed with caution, and under no circumstances give them any advance warning of what you are planning. From your prior posts I can tell you are a master at obfuscation, so you should have no problem concealing your true plans from the unsuspecting gremlins. Good luck, and you may perhaps want to increase your boat insurance and medical/drug plan coverage before proceeding.
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finaddict
Well-Known Member
might also want to check out: http://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/Clear,_Concise,_and_Direct_Sentences.pdf
trophywife
Crew Member
awesome,, my old trophy would spin the compass non stop when the key was in the on position... never could figure out why... i have a better understanding now.
Fish Camp
Well-Known Member
bg thanks for the new word ,i will try to improve.I am under sanctions on the forum for years and often do not have enough time to proof read and think and think again without getting the boot.so i wip somthing together and hope for the best.tack is for the ones that lack the wit to be sarcastic.
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
My apologies Fish camp. My sense of humor is definitely not to most peoples taste. I was trying to be humorous. Please accept my apologies if I offended you. Your posts have often left me with the impression you were just jerking around. I understand now that you are merely having issues with writing your thoughts in a cohesive manner. That was very rude of me to poke fun at you if you have issues writing. I sincerely apologize for my very impolite attempt at humor.
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Fish Camp
Well-Known Member
bg and others you help make learning fun.I was not offended ever .Ignorance is a bliss and I may be the happiest person on earth.Declination i thaught was deviation in my compass ,I now have learned declination and variation in compass makes the deviatation and more devation could be from magnetic disturbance in proximity to compass.thanks again.
Excellent question - Fish Camp!
yes, sort -of - the answer. We won't live long enough to see it - and every few hundreds of thousands of years - the North and South pole switch positions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal) - and in the lead-up to that switch - fields become weak and variable - and the poles wander faster and faster.
And it's been doing that recently....
That's given rise to the odd sci fi book/movie/web article (https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...-sent-us-back-to-a-post-apocalyptic-stone-age ) where the Earth and it's atmosphere are "unguarded" to CMEs (coronal mass ejections from the sun http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/phenomena/coronal-mass-ejections ) since there isn't a magnetic field protecting the Earth during this switch - and the atmosphere is blown away into space.
As cheery as this scenario is - the poles have switched enough over millions of years - and the planet, it's atmosphere - and it's biota remain today - albeit substantially changed.
Interestingly, that switch of poles back'n'forth has been used to age rocks and widening at fault lines - as for certain magnetic rock types - the magnetic crystals align themselves with whatever the field was when the rock was molten and laid (Dark areas denote periods where the polarity matches today's polarity, while light areas denote periods where that polarity is reversed.).
On a practical basis - if one still uses a magnetic compass - correct for the current year's magnetic declination/variation found in the compass rose on nautical charts.
LOVE your gremlins - by-the-way!
yes, sort -of - the answer. We won't live long enough to see it - and every few hundreds of thousands of years - the North and South pole switch positions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal) - and in the lead-up to that switch - fields become weak and variable - and the poles wander faster and faster.
And it's been doing that recently....
That's given rise to the odd sci fi book/movie/web article (https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...-sent-us-back-to-a-post-apocalyptic-stone-age ) where the Earth and it's atmosphere are "unguarded" to CMEs (coronal mass ejections from the sun http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/phenomena/coronal-mass-ejections ) since there isn't a magnetic field protecting the Earth during this switch - and the atmosphere is blown away into space.
As cheery as this scenario is - the poles have switched enough over millions of years - and the planet, it's atmosphere - and it's biota remain today - albeit substantially changed.
Interestingly, that switch of poles back'n'forth has been used to age rocks and widening at fault lines - as for certain magnetic rock types - the magnetic crystals align themselves with whatever the field was when the rock was molten and laid (Dark areas denote periods where the polarity matches today's polarity, while light areas denote periods where that polarity is reversed.).
On a practical basis - if one still uses a magnetic compass - correct for the current year's magnetic declination/variation found in the compass rose on nautical charts.
LOVE your gremlins - by-the-way!
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Compass Declination is not really something I spend a lot of time thinking about on the boat anymore. It is not like years back wilderness backpacking without GPS where it was a consideration if you wanted to get where you were going, then get back and not get lost.
I run two physical compasses at the helm station set up so as not to cause mutual interference. It is reassuring when they both show the same heading. I can bring up the GPS electronic compass rose which shows true north and compare it to the two physical compasses and there is very little practical difference between the three.
Practically if the multiple GPS systems and the radar (Coast profile) were to all fail in thick fog where I fish off Sooke, we would just go back to the old school semi dead reckoning method we used decades back when all you had was a physical compass and if you were lucky one of those new high tech sounders. Head north (true or magnetic, it does not matter) till you hit the coast, if you are not sure if you are west or east of the harbour, look for a land mark for direction of travel along the coast ( we know that coastline like the back of our hands) and then follow the coast back to the harbour and always keep a large fuel reserve for emergencies. Having a working sounder can help keep you off the reefs.
Back in the 70's I was taught how to use a paper chart, compass, stop watch and parallel rulers etc. but have not practiced those skills in decades, forgotten most of it and don't carry paper charts anymore. Reliance on technology makes us lazy I guess but then most people use calculators now, not slide rulers.
I run two physical compasses at the helm station set up so as not to cause mutual interference. It is reassuring when they both show the same heading. I can bring up the GPS electronic compass rose which shows true north and compare it to the two physical compasses and there is very little practical difference between the three.
Practically if the multiple GPS systems and the radar (Coast profile) were to all fail in thick fog where I fish off Sooke, we would just go back to the old school semi dead reckoning method we used decades back when all you had was a physical compass and if you were lucky one of those new high tech sounders. Head north (true or magnetic, it does not matter) till you hit the coast, if you are not sure if you are west or east of the harbour, look for a land mark for direction of travel along the coast ( we know that coastline like the back of our hands) and then follow the coast back to the harbour and always keep a large fuel reserve for emergencies. Having a working sounder can help keep you off the reefs.
Back in the 70's I was taught how to use a paper chart, compass, stop watch and parallel rulers etc. but have not practiced those skills in decades, forgotten most of it and don't carry paper charts anymore. Reliance on technology makes us lazy I guess but then most people use calculators now, not slide rulers.
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TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
Fish camp not to be dismissive, but I think your getting all worked up about minutiae. As long as your compass is fairly accurate minor discrepancies will really not be a major problem. In the situation Rockfish outlined about navigating back to shore by compass a minor inaccuracy of the compass would have little effect. If your GPS did fail while offshore you might be navigating 7-15 miles to get back to shore. If you were talking about hundreds or a thousand mile journey then your compass would need to be accurate to the nth degree. Small deviations won't make a big impact on a relatively short trip. The important part is that it is accurate enough to get you back to shore. As Rockfish stated, once back at shore you should be able to follow the coast back to your home port.
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It kinda depends on how "hot" your boat is wrt magnetic disturbances - and whether or not you need to correct for deviation - as the Big Guy pointed-out- what your needs are. If you run long distances - it never hurts to know - just in case you have to use your compass.
The easiest way to correct - is to get yourself in the middle of a larger harbour (and staying out of the way of larger traffic) - point your bow at a recognizable object that is on your chart (e.g. rocks, points, bridge pilings/abutments, steeples, radio towers, etc). Stay on your course for 30-60 seconds - long enough your GPS to give you a good fix and use your GPS/plotter to give an accurate bearing to that object - and then see what your magnetic compass says. Turn around and aim for a few objects - do the same. Won't be more than 5-10 minutes - and you will know how far off your compass is. It's kinda fun doing that. You could even write it down and construct your own compass card - finding your deviation (and those pesky gremlins) after correcting for variation.
As TBG says - a few degrees here or there is minor - and expected. Occasionally - for some compass sectors - the deviation can be upwards of some 20-30 degrees off (including the natural magnetic variation) - especially if you have machinery or lots of nav equipment mounted near the compass.
The easiest way to correct - is to get yourself in the middle of a larger harbour (and staying out of the way of larger traffic) - point your bow at a recognizable object that is on your chart (e.g. rocks, points, bridge pilings/abutments, steeples, radio towers, etc). Stay on your course for 30-60 seconds - long enough your GPS to give you a good fix and use your GPS/plotter to give an accurate bearing to that object - and then see what your magnetic compass says. Turn around and aim for a few objects - do the same. Won't be more than 5-10 minutes - and you will know how far off your compass is. It's kinda fun doing that. You could even write it down and construct your own compass card - finding your deviation (and those pesky gremlins) after correcting for variation.
As TBG says - a few degrees here or there is minor - and expected. Occasionally - for some compass sectors - the deviation can be upwards of some 20-30 degrees off (including the natural magnetic variation) - especially if you have machinery or lots of nav equipment mounted near the compass.
Tugcapitan
Well-Known Member
You are right to want your compass working properly fishcamp.
Good advice on here to check how close it is to other stuff on your dash, like metal objects, electronics, and speakers are probably one of the worst offenders. If you've checked all that and still can't settle it down, maybe you need a new one?
In my opinion, most people on this forum running on a compass course will be doing so in fog with a failed gps or chart plotter. If they were running back into Barkley Sound and came across a breaking rock, would they really know Miller rock from Hornby rock? If it was thick would you recognize sea pool rocks? Maybe, maybe not. You might be fine, or maybe you're running up onto a reef!
Making your own deviation card is a great idea, and like agent aqua I think it would make a fun afternoon. I think taking known transits of two objects in line is better than looking at your gps heading for a correction, but the gps method will be easier with less preparation, and probably be close enough for your needs.
Like others have said above, understanding variation is most likely way more important than a small compass deviation for most people. Check your chart for your area, it's usually between 17.5 - 19.5 degrees depending where you are on our coast. If one wants to head north, you'd be steering 342 instead of 000 (360 same thing) For an 18 degree variation. Now add or subtract the deviation from on the card you made and you now only have to contend with how far the current or wind put you off course. Take a trip from point Atkinson to Thrasher rock for example, if you are running on your compass heading and your compass is 3 degrees out, and you've correctly allowed for variation, you'll be a mile off course due to deviation on the other side. No big deal for some I guess. Rule of thumb is for every 1 degree off, you are one mile off course for every 60 miles.
Now though let's say you are tuna fishing out of quatsino and you are running back with your compass, and you forgot about variation.... you might end up off of Cape Scott! Definitely something anyone on the water should be aware of and think about.
Good luck figuring it all out, love your posts.
Good advice on here to check how close it is to other stuff on your dash, like metal objects, electronics, and speakers are probably one of the worst offenders. If you've checked all that and still can't settle it down, maybe you need a new one?
In my opinion, most people on this forum running on a compass course will be doing so in fog with a failed gps or chart plotter. If they were running back into Barkley Sound and came across a breaking rock, would they really know Miller rock from Hornby rock? If it was thick would you recognize sea pool rocks? Maybe, maybe not. You might be fine, or maybe you're running up onto a reef!
Making your own deviation card is a great idea, and like agent aqua I think it would make a fun afternoon. I think taking known transits of two objects in line is better than looking at your gps heading for a correction, but the gps method will be easier with less preparation, and probably be close enough for your needs.
Like others have said above, understanding variation is most likely way more important than a small compass deviation for most people. Check your chart for your area, it's usually between 17.5 - 19.5 degrees depending where you are on our coast. If one wants to head north, you'd be steering 342 instead of 000 (360 same thing) For an 18 degree variation. Now add or subtract the deviation from on the card you made and you now only have to contend with how far the current or wind put you off course. Take a trip from point Atkinson to Thrasher rock for example, if you are running on your compass heading and your compass is 3 degrees out, and you've correctly allowed for variation, you'll be a mile off course due to deviation on the other side. No big deal for some I guess. Rule of thumb is for every 1 degree off, you are one mile off course for every 60 miles.
Now though let's say you are tuna fishing out of quatsino and you are running back with your compass, and you forgot about variation.... you might end up off of Cape Scott! Definitely something anyone on the water should be aware of and think about.
Good luck figuring it all out, love your posts.
Fish Camp
Well-Known Member
Found some interesting information on magnetic declination.https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...LgoaDQ5BIq1VAITpQ&sig2=mhtejrOsdgBA7ZA3IwZvUQ and NOAA has this prediction chart for year 2020https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...ctm4OTy8vqeFJnkNg&sig2=Rx5jT2E_KA5K95svPDr4UA
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
Thanks to everyone for all the informative links. It's all very good information. It would seem to me that creating a custom deviation conversion chart is far more effort than is necessary to navigate short distances safely as long as you take a few precautions. If you are fishing offshore it would seem to me to be far more important to simply record your course and travel times on you first trip out and back. As long as your compass isn't seriously out of whack because of nearby magnetic disturbances on your dash it should be giving a consistent reading. So, the variations and any deviations should at least be consistent when recording your course readings from your compass. As long as you have recorded your course out and back from any area you are fishing, you should safely be able to navigate back without doing complicated conversions while in transit in the fog. That would seem to be more of a stressor than giving you a feeling of security if your GPS goes out in the fog. I certainly would not want to have to do conversions in that situation. I would rather simply want to know the bearing that my compass read to get me back to Port when traveling that route in the past. This requires that you must have made the trip at least once, but you would have to be extremely unlucky to have your GPS go out on your first trip offshore at a new location. Maybe it's just me, but I would rather retrace my course by a known compass reading than have to do any conversions in a high stress situation. Comments.
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