CBC tonight at 9PM

Friends of Science hold the position that the sun is the main driver of climate change. Current unusual solar patterns and the long-term decline of some 30% since 1990 in the sun's magnetic field are more likely to significantly affect climate than human-made CO2 emissions.

Friends of Science have spent a decade reviewing a broad spectrum of literature on climate change and have concluded the sun is the main driver of climate change, not carbon dioxide (CO2). The core group of the Friends of Science is made up of retired earth and atmospheric scientists.

SOURCE Friends of Science Society

soxy your friends don't seem to be friends at all... perhaps friends of oil?
Didn't they become UN-friended by UofC for well let's just say misdeeds.....
They sure have had a long "time-out" and thought the had melted away....
http://deepclimate.org/2009/12/02/i...-talisman-energy-and-the-de-freitas-brothers/
 
Let's have a look at that "sun is the main driver of climate change claim" by your so-called friends

[video] http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp-XnMGTOdMbLGfVOKuCv0Wx2B8zLbomy
 
Very clever d.T...
Perhaps you could watch this youtube and give us some pearl of wisdom.

[OJ6Z04VJDco] http://youtu.be/OJ6Z04VJDco
And waste 16 minutes of my life? Lol, Think I will spend my free time tying up some roe bags, for tomorrow is another day fishing for Steelhead! Woot,woot,woot, life is good!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
CO2 Not a Control Knob that Can Fine Tune Climate says Judith Curry to US Senate
Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/1696748#ixzz2rFNso88v

CALGARY, Jan. 23, 2014 /CNW/ - "Attempts to modify the climate through reducing CO2 emissions may turn out to be futile," said top climate expert Judith Curry in her testimony to the US Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works on Jan. 16, 2014. ...
Judith Curry, Chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology, a 30 year climate science veteran gave (debunked) testimony that "The stagnation in greenhouse warming observed over the past 15+ years demonstrates that CO2 is not a control knob that can fine tune climate variability on decadal and multi-decadal time scales."

This statement is in sharp contrast to demands from groups like the Pembina Institute whose energy policy papers call for a low-carbon future. Most recently Pembina claim that British Columbia's LNG developments will put that province on near par with Alberta's oil sands emissions, saying 'carbon pollution' will cause sea level rise and warming.

Climate change a "clear and present danger"
Curry discredited in Senate testimony
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...an/20/climate-change-clear-and-present-danger

Last Thursday, the US Senate committee on environment & public works held a four-hour hearing to review President Obama's Climate Action Plan. The hearing began with statements from the committee members, and then proceeded with two expert panels. The first was comprised of administrators of government agencies that are key to implementing President Obama's Climate Action Plan, like EPA administrator Gina McCarthy. The second panel was comprised of climate science and policy experts.

Andrew Dessler, a climate scientist from Texas A&M University, was one of the expert climate science witnesses invited to testify. In his testimony, Dessler simply and clearly articulated what we know about climate change, and why he personally views it as "a clear and present danger." Dessler's main points were:

1. The climate is warming - not just the atmosphere, but also the oceans, which are rising as a result, and ice is melting.

2. Most of the recent warming is extremely likely due to emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases by human activities. This is supported by overwhelming evidence and hence was a conclusion of the 2014 IPCC report.

3. Future warming could be large. Over the 21st century, if we continue with business-as-usual, the IPCC projects 2.6–4.8°C average global surface warming.

4. The impacts of this are profound. The virtually certain impacts include increasing temperatures, more frequent extreme heat events, changes in
the distribution of rainfall, rising seas, and the oceans becoming more acidic. There are numerous additional possible impacts as well.

Strangely, in her testimony, Georgia Tech climate scientist Judith Curry directly contradicted Dessler's second point, arguing that the 2014 IPCC report actually weakens scientists' confidence in human-caused global warming. Curry's evidence to support that assertion boiled down to arguing of a supposed 'lack of warming since 1998', discrepancies between models and observations during that time, a lower climate sensitivity range in the 2014 than the 2007 IPCC report, and the fact that Antarctic sea ice extent has increased.

However, Dessler was correct that the IPCC increased its confidence in human-caused global warming between 2007 and 2014. It did so because the scientific evidence that humans are the dominant cause of global warming over the past century grew significantly stronger in recent years.

Attribution50-65_450.jpg
Net human and natural percent contributions to the observed global surface warming over the past 50-65 years according to Tett et al. 2000 (T00, dark blue), Meehl et al. 2004 (M04, red), Stone et al. 2007 (S07, light green), Lean and Rind 2008 (LR08, purple), Huber and Knutti 2011 (HK11, light blue), Gillett et al. 2012 (G12, orange), Wigley and Santer 2012 (WS12, dark green), and Jones et al. 2013 (J12, pink). Net human and natural percent contributions to the observed global surface warming over the past 50-65 years according to Tett et al. 2000 (T00, dark blue), Meehl et al. 2004 (M04, red), Stone et al. 2007 (S07, light green), Lean and Rind 2008 (LR08, purple), Huber and Knutti 2011 (HK11, light blue), Gillett et al. 2012 (G12, orange), Wigley and Santer 2012 (WS12, dark green), and Jones et al. 2013 (J13, pink).


This conclusion has also been supported by research published after the 2014 IPCC report, showing that the natural internal variability of the climate can't account for recent global warming, and that the IPCC confidence in human-caused global warming is robust. And contrary to Curry's second point, the observed global warming has been consistent with the projections of the range of models used in the IPCC report.

ProjvsObs450.jpg

IPCC AR5 Figure 1.4. Solid lines and squares represent measured average global surface temperature changes by NASA (blue), NOAA (yellow), and the UK Hadley Centre (green). The colored shading shows the projected range of surface warming in the IPCC First Assessment Report (FAR; yellow), Second (SAR; green), Third (TAR; blue), and Fourth (AR4; red). IPCC AR5 Figure 1.4. Solid lines and squares represent measured average global surface temperature changes by NASA (blue), NOAA (yellow), and the UK Hadley Centre (green). The colored shading shows the projected range of surface warming in the IPCC First Assessment Report (FAR; yellow), Second (SAR; green), Third (TAR; blue), and Fourth (AR4; red).


In his testimony, Dessler also addressed the myth (promoted by Curry) of the 'lack of warming.' In addition to being a result of cherry picking and largely an artifact of a lack of Arctic temperature station coverage, Dessler pointed to:
"...the continued accumulation of heat in the bulk of the ocean, which is a clear marker of continued warming. And because heat can be stored in places other than at the surface, a lack of surface warming for a decade tells you almost nothing about the underlying long-term warming trends ... I judge that there is virtually no merit to suggestions that the "hiatus" poses a serious challenge to the standard model [of human-caused global warming]."

Regarding the sensitivity of the climate to the increased greenhouse effect, Dessler pointed out that the 2014 IPCC report matched the 2001, 1995, and 1990 reports, estimating an eventual global surface warming of 1.5–4.5°C in response to a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide. Only the 2007 IPCC report slightly changed the estimated range to 2–4.5°C. Additionally, recent research has suggested that the true climate sensitivity lies on the high end of that range.

Regarding Antarctic sea ice, it's a complex issue, influenced by factors like ozone depletion and recovery and associated changes in wind patterns. However, the rapid loss of Arctic sea ice has been much larger than the small increase in Antarctic sea ice. Moreover, the Southern Ocean around Antarctica has warmed. Thus changes in Antarctic sea ice tell us very little about global warming.

Overall, Dessler was correct that the evidence for human-caused global warming is now stronger than ever. His testimony presented a compelling case for the threat of human-caused global warming, which he considers "a clear and present danger." Dessler and Curry agreed on one key point: that our actions can't alter the path of climate change over the next several decades (though Curry sounded like the Borg, calling emissions reductions efforts "futile"). It's true that we're locked in for significant additional global warming from the greenhouse gases we've already emitted.

However, Dessler pointed out that our actions today will determine whether we proceed on a dangerous path of continued rapid climate change over the second half of the 21st century, or stabilise global temperatures and minimize the threat posed by climate change. Dessler concluded:


"The scientific community has been working on understanding the climate system for nearly 200 years. In that time, a robust understanding of it has emerged. We know the climate is warming. We know that humans are now in the driver's seat of the climate system. We know that, over the next century, if nothing is done to rein in emissions, temperatures will likely increase enough to profoundly change the planet. I wish this weren't true, but it is what the science tells us."
 
And waste 16 minutes of my life? Lol, Think I will spend my free time tying up some roe bags, for tomorrow is another day fishing for Steelhead! Woot,woot,woot, life is good!

Well that's fine but perhaps go over to the fresh water section and talk about it over there.
This thread is more about science, not fishing for steelhead......

Unless how the growing temps in the river are starting to effect those fish.

Temperature is one of the most important environmental influences on salmonid biology. Most aquatic organisms, including salmon and steelhead, are poikilotherms, meaning their temperature and metabolism is determined by the ambient temperature of water. Temperature therefore influences growth and feeding rates, metabolism, development of embryos and alevins, timing of life history events such as upstream migration, spawning, freshwater rearing, and seaward migration, and the availability of food. Temperature changes can also cause stress and lethality (Ligon et al. 1999). Temperatures at sub-lethal levels can effectively block migration, lead to reduced growth, stress fish, affect reproduction, inhibit smoltification, create disease problems, and alter competitive dominance (Elliott 1981, USEPA 1999). Further, the stressful impacts of water temperatures on salmonids are cumulative and positively correlated to the duration and severity of exposure. The longer the salmonid is exposed to thermal stress, the less chance it has for long-term survival (Ligon et al. 1999).
http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/northcoast/...osalmonandchinooksalmonbiologyandfunction.pdf

But hey whatever continue down your road of......
Woot,woot,woot, life is good!
While the rest of us do something to fix the problems.
Go ahead I'm use to pulling my share plus some.

But like I said take it to the freshwater section maybe you will be more comfortable there. Heck there are other forums and you might want go to.
Who knows you may find other that share your views.
Perhaps do a google search and include....
Stealhead fishing BC walking on thin ice
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well that's fine but perhaps go over to the fresh water section and talk about it over there.
This thread is more about science, not fishing for steelhead......

Unless how the growing temps in the river are starting to effect those fish.



But hey whatever continue down your road of......

While the rest of us do something to fix the problems.
Go ahead I'm use to pulling my share plus some.

But like I said take it to the freshwater section maybe you will be more comfortable there. Heck there are other forums and you might want go to.
Who knows you may find other that share your views.
Perhaps do a google search and include....
Stealhead fishing BC walking on thin ice
What are you accomplishing? LMAO. Get out and fish before we all burn up!
 
I don't think these guys will ever see it soxy,, never. They don't want the truth,, there's no catastrophe in it,, no cause to get behind,, nothing to blame on anybody.. Things can't be the way they are just because,, there has to be some horrible reason behind it..
I don’t think these guys will ever see it GLG, El,pereh, Dave H., Foxsea, Sharp Hooks (and many others), because they don’t want the truth. They deliberately refuse to see the problems right in front of their eyes because they believe their paycheck depends on it and by denying any issue they can conduct business as usual. They have a childlike belief that everything in the world is perfect, there are no consequences to any actions, and that their illusory world must not be threatened in any way.

We have posted up as many if not more science and information against this fraud as you guys have for it,, why are the scientist against it kooks ?? I don't call the ones for it kooks,, they are just frauds. People that sold their integrity for a buck. Look these people were hired to go out there and prove that global warming is happening,, do you all not see the irony in this..
You have posted some chosen links and articles from a few contrarian scientists and speakers and then try and pretend those views are in equal numbers and are more correct than those of the rest of the scientific community.
Your fraud accusations against the entire scientific community are ludicrous, simple minded and foolish. You expose your ignorance of how the peer reviewed process of research and publication works. The fact that you believe there is some giant conspiracy corrupting the entire scientific community across many countries is so ludicrous and insulting to all the academics and researchers working in the field as to be beyond belief.

Your ridiculous rant is nothing more than an attempt to deny the credibility of the overwhelming evidence by attacking the entire community. It is an “ad hominem” attack on the body or professionals instead of an individual, which is your usual tactic.

El.pereh posted this.
SOXY:

Here is a list of organizations that accept anthropogenic global warming as real and scientifically well-supported:

NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS): http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA): http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC): http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm
National Academy of Sciences (NAS): http://books.nap.edu/collections/global_warming/index.html
State of the Canadian Cryosphere (SOCC) – http://www.socc.ca/permafrost/permafrost_future_e.cfm
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): http://epa.gov/climatechange/index.html
The Royal Society of the UK (RS) – http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/page.asp?id=3135
American Geophysical Union (AGU): http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/policy/climate_change_position.html
American Meteorological Society (AMS): http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/climatechangeresearch_2003.html
American Institute of Physics (AIP): http://www.aip.org/gov/policy12.html
National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR): http://eo.ucar.edu/basics/cc_1.html
American Meteorological Society (AMS): http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/jointacademies.html
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS): http://www.cmos.ca/climatechangepole.html
Yet all you can do is claim all the scientists and professionals in these bodies are corrupt. What an incredibly silly and naïve position. You even include the American Geophysical Union in your ludicrous conspiracy. These are the guys who work in your field studying the rocks understanding the geophysical structures that contain oil and gas. I’m sure you can prove these geologists all wrong about the age of these sedimentary rocks though, by posting a link to a creationist site that “proves” the world is only 6000 years old! That is how denialist you are. A complete reality illusion perpetrated by anti-science, anti-intellectual and ignorant people.
The people that are denying it are simply saying,, the proof isn't there and it's not,, it's made up,, their information is twisted or out and out false about what is happening.. They were "payed" and "told" what to come up with before they started the studies,,, What !!! How can anyone possibly take this as science,, it's coercion !!
No these people are saying the evidence is insufficient, and they are in a tiny minority. They do not say the evidence is “made up and twisted and false”. That is YOU making things up and creating a huge conspiracy theory about corruption and kick backs. All the professionals in el.pereh’s post above understand the science. You are again showing how gullible you are and ignorant of the scientific peer reviewed publishing process. Do you seriously believe humanity would have advance to this point in science and knowledge if the scientific community could be corrupted in the way you imply?

How anyone can possibly take your weird theories seriously is utterly beyond me. But then if some people believe the world is only 6000 years old, the Americans never landed on the moon and the CIA organised 9/11 these same people with low intellectual capabilities will believe even your theories.

My God people,, get something else to do with your lives.. Save lives, feed the homeless,, cure cancer,, get a real job what ever. If all these politicians and celebrities put this much effort into real world issues someone might respect them,, they might actually accomplish something useful other than just destroying the economy of nations, other than joining in with these socialist dictators trying to break the free enterprise of free nations into welfare government fed robots..

WAKE UP !!! It's a farce and your falling for it,, they are stealing your hard earned money supporting a lie...
My god, you deniers should just open your minds a little and do some research. If the few deniers and their supporter put as much effort into actually finding solutions and conducting research into technologies that might actually transition us from fossil fuels, they might actually accomplish something other than cheering the destruction of the climate and the environment under the guise of jobs and economics which you perversely call “free enterprise”. I am not permitted to conduct “free enterprise” which poisons you water supply or pollutes the air you breathe. Why are you a special case?

WAKE UP!! It is a farce calling all climate researchers and the scientific community socialist conspirators and you are falling for it. You are being duped and led by self-serving propaganda and all the while acting like drones stealing the heritage of the next generation and ability for people in some countries to actually live there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What are you accomplishing? LMAO. Get out and fish before we all burn up!

A few things....
I'm part of a group that raised 50K that we spent last summer on stream rehabilitation.
We cleaned up the river of evasive plants, stabilized banks, put bolder and tree complexes in.
We also planted native plants and trees along the river bank to shade the water.

Next year we will take another 50K, that we have raised, to move up the river and do the same thing.
Year after that we will create new side channels for over wintering fry and spawning beds.

We have a budget and a plan to plant many trees to help cool the stream in summer.
We have a five year plan to fixing things that the likes of you wish to destroy.

The question is... what are you doing besides
Woot,woot,woot, life is good!



So your question was, what am i doing....
Exposing guy's like you for what you really are....

What's wrong Neil got you down?
Getting a little hot out there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A few things....
I'm part of a group that raised 50K that we spent last summer on stream rehabilitation.
We cleaned up the river of evasive plants, stabilized banks, put bolder and tree complexes in.
We also planted native plants and trees along the river bank to shade the water.

Next year we will take another 50K, that we have raised, to move up the river and do the same thing.
Year after that we will create new side channels for over wintering fry and spawning beds.

We have a budget and a plan to plant many trees to help cool the stream in summer.
We have a five year plan to fixing things that the likes of you wish to destroy.
Sorry, I didn't respond to you right away. Was out fishing. Don't spend all my time in front of the keyboard spreading Propaganda. I commend you on your stream rehabilitation, nice job! Between my time working in the Oil patch,raising a family and fishing,does not leave much time for volunteer work.I do however donate monies to the Steelhead Society. Im done with these environmental threads for now...over and out.
 
Sorry, I didn't respond to you right away. Was out fishing. Don't spend all my time in front of the keyboard spreading Propaganda. I commend you on your stream rehabilitation, nice job! Between my time working in the Oil patch,raising a family and fishing,does not leave much time for volunteer work.I do however donate monies to the Steelhead Society. Im done with these environmental threads for now...over and out.

Nice dig....
Glad your done... as you really are on thin ice.
 
Another article in the NY Times picking up the Canadian library closures.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/world/americas/librarians-protest-canada-cutbacks.html?_r=0

Librarians Protest Canada Cutbacks

CHARLOTTETOWN, Prince Edward Island — A move by the Canadian government to shrink the number of its departmental research libraries is drawing fire from some academics, who fear a loss of data and trained personnel and damage to the country’s ability to carry out research.

The closing of seven regional libraries in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the quiet elimination of more than two dozen libraries in other departments, might otherwise have passed largely unnoticed, given the modest cost savings.

According to government documents, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans estimates that the consolidation will save 443,000 Canadian dollars, or about $405,000, in 2014-15.

But government scientists, university researchers, and librarians say the manner of the downsizing, which they charge was conducted with little consultation, contradicts government reassurances that taxpayer-funded reports and research documents would be preserved and digitized for online access.
 
Just one example but a telling one:

http://visual.ly/comparing-science-communication-canada-and-usa

Comparing Science Communication in Canada and the USA

Around early 2012 Tom Spears, a reporter with the Ottawa Citizen, was working on a piece about a cooperative research project that involved the National Research Council (NRC), a Canadian governmental science organization and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), a United States’ governmental science organization. In one case he went through a communication department, in the other he spoke directly to a scientist. This is a comparison of these two interactions.
 
The old guy... telling like it is...

[h=1]Prince Charles finds climate-change denial most unbecoming
[/h]Doubters of man-made global warming a 'headless chicken brigade,' Charles says

The Associated Press Posted: Jan 31, 2014 12:59 PM ET
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/p...imate-change-denial-most-unbecoming-1.2518727

Prince Charles has called people who deny human-made climate change a "headless chicken brigade" who are ignoring overwhelming scientific evidence. The heir to the British throne, a dedicated environmentalist, accused "powerful groups of deniers" of mounting "a barrage of sheer intimidation" against opponents.

He made the comments at a Buckingham Palace awards ceremony on Thursday. Charles said it was "baffling ... that in our modern world we have such blind trust in science and technology that we all accept what science tells us about everything — until, that is, it comes to climate science." He praised finalists for the Prince of Wales Young Sustainability Entrepreneur Prize for having "the far-sightedness and confidence in what they know is happening to ignore the headless chicken brigade and do something practical to help."
 
Back
Top