Blue Seas SI ACR-Battery Switch

[pescador]

When I had my ACR installed (auto charge relay), SG Power left my original battery switch in the boat connected to the new ACR. It's a typical; "off", "Battery 1", "Battery 2" and "Both" switch. I now see that Blue Seas sells a switch that should be paired with the ACR that simple shows "off", "on" and "combined" to match the ACR system. It's called an E Series Dual Circuit Plus Battery Switch. I am still confused on when using the old switch whether I should leave it on battery 1, 2 or combined. I get mixed responses from people when I ask. Does anyone know the response to this question, and, would it make sense to just swap out the old switch and install the new E Series which seems to simplify things?

 

[Fishin'Zinn]

It would make it more simple. But necessary? Maybe not, are you the only one that uses the boat? It makes it easy/safer when someone else doesn't know how to use the standard 1/2/emerg switches.

I was recently wondering the same thing, if I should/can just add an ACR to my 3-switch control setup for battery power or just get the Battery switch with it... Probably the latter if it's going to make things that easy and actually better!

 

[Wyrguy]

To give you a simple answer, yes, swap out the switch as it does 'cure' any potential confusion. The 'old skool' switches (1, 2, 1+2, off) was the original way to run dual batteries with a single charging source and also allowing you to parallel the two batteries (usually only to Emerg start or to charge both at the same time) What has happened over the past years as our electrical loads have increased and also the sensitivity of the electronics to voltage surges & spikes, that system leaves a lot to be desired. The Blue Sea ACR and their Dual Circuit Plus battery switch (Add-a-Battery or Mini Add-a-Battery combos) are, IMO, the best invention since sliced bread and toilet paper!
It's able to keep your starting battery and electronic/electrical load battery (deep cycle) completely separate but the ACR allows the charging circuit of the motor (O/B main, kicker, etc) to maintain the batteries charged. It also allows an Emerg combine (parallel) function if for some reason the start battery needs help starting the motor. The way the switch is labeled also takes out any of the 'mystery' of where and how the switch should be set. Want to head out, turn it to 'on'. Come back home and park it, turn it to 'off'. Even if you have an onboard or portable 120 volt battery charger you want to use, the ACR will function to maintain both batteries.

PM if you want my cell number or email. I'm located in the Greater Victoria area and willing to help anyone that asks... I have the tools I'll lend as I'm helping you to understand, all for the cost of a Timmie (large, 2 cream!)

Rick


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[pescador]

Thanks guys. Great input. I am going to put in the new switch based on the comments. The old switch has 12 years use so its probably not a bad idea to replace any way. One question though for Wyrguy, the ACR has the feature of running a wire direct to the ignition switch on my Yamaha F225 to segregate house load on engine start up. I need to hook that wire up as I see it wasn't connected by the folks who installed it. Do you know how/where it will plug in to the ignition switch? Its clear where to plug it in on the ACR box, but, I looked at the ignition switch on the weekend and there is no obvious place to plug in the wire.

 

[CIVANO]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...2vDqOviHhGkxRsnNnI8-GRktrEwTbupYmDEQNjqcOYNMs The brown wire on the Yamaha ignition switch is the start wire. You need to connect there

 

[pescador]

Ok, brown wire, that helps. I guess when I pull out the ignition switch it's going to be clearer to see where that brown wire is so I can plug it in? I took a quick cursory look Saturday and I didn't see an obvious site to plug in wires.

 

[Califbill]

I have the old switch and just run it on 1. That way the ACR charges both and if something happens to a battery I can switch to the other battery for starting, etc. I had the battery cable on #2 battery break. So I could run it on both to get power to the electronics for the day.

 

[Wyrguy]

Pescador, you don't 'need' to connect the SI (start interlock) wire up on the Blue Sea ACR, it's an option. It's just a way to make sure that the ACR isn't in the combine mode when starting the motor which could then introduce spikes, surges, or a temporary voltage drop on the electronics that may be running, causing them to possibly drop out. That's also why the Dual Circuit Plus switch is used to allow complete isolation of the two different battery electrical systems.
Using the ACR and the 'Old Skool' switch as described by Califbill will work, but not provide any isolation of the systems. It defeats the real purpose of installing the ACR.

Rick


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[bigdogeh]

Pescador, you don't 'need' to connect the SI (start interlock) wire up on the Blue Sea ACR, it's an option. It's just a way to make sure that the ACR isn't in the combine mode when starting the motor which could then introduce spikes, surges, or a temporary voltage drop on the electronics that may be running, causing them to possibly drop out. That's also why the Dual Circuit Plus switch is used to allow complete isolation of the two different battery electrical systems.
Using the ACR and the 'Old Skool' switch as described by Califbill will work, but not provide any isolation of the systems. It defeats the real purpose of installing the ACR.



Rick


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some of the old school blueseas "off, one, two, both" switches also have ignition isolation (alternator field disconnect)... (think it's the 9002e) I have the acr's and still use the old school switches. basically the same as califbill has mentioned. as long as running on "1", both batteries are being charged with the acr. set it and forget it... the beauty of using acr's...

 

[bigdogeh]

Pescador, you don't 'need' to connect the SI (start interlock) wire up on the Blue Sea ACR, it's an option. It's just a way to make sure that the ACR isn't in the combine mode when starting the motor which could then introduce spikes, surges, or a temporary voltage drop on the electronics that may be running, causing them to possibly drop out. That's also why the Dual Circuit Plus switch is used to allow complete isolation of the two different battery electrical systems.
Using the ACR and the 'Old Skool' switch as described by Califbill will work, but not provide any isolation of the systems. It defeats the real purpose of installing the ACR.

Rick
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just to add, some of the old school blueseas "off, one, two, both" switches also have ignition isolation (alternator field disconnect) I believe it's the 9002e. I have the acr's and still use the old school switches. basically the same as califbill has mentioned. as long as running on "1", both batteries are being charged with the acr. set it and forget it... if for some reason you find yourself in trouble then you can still change to 2 or both, but theoretically you should only have to have the switch set to "1" if you are using one battery for start (crank) and one battery for house (electronics, etc..)... the beauty of using acr's...

 

[Wyrguy]

just to add, some of the old school blueseas "off, one, two, both" switches also have ignition isolation (alternator field disconnect) I believe it's the 9002e. I have the acr's and still use the old school switches. basically the same as califbill has mentioned. as long as running on "1", both batteries are being charged with the acr. set it and forget it... if for some reason you find yourself in trouble then you can still change to 2 or both, but theoretically you should only have to have the switch set to "1" if you are using one battery for start (crank) and one battery for house (electronics, etc..)... the beauty of using acr's...

The switches with the AFD on them are not for isolation between the house & start batteries. That is an extra switch built in to the main battery switch to disconnect the Alternator Field power to certain types of alternators that require a positive lead to them that allows them to generate electricity. If you turn the main battery switch to 'off' without first turning off the alternator field power, you blow the regulator on the alternator. The Start Isolation part of the BlueSea ACR is a completely different function. It's like comparing an apple and an orange.
Here's a good description of the AFD function from Blue Sea:

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/91/Alternator_Field_Disconnect


Nobody ever said that you have to have your start and house battery loads separate, it's just that a lot of problems being blamed on the electronics are actually caused by switching, starting, and low voltages when running everything together (motors and electronics)

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/63

https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles/Automatic_Charging_Relays/65/Start_Lockout_for_Two_Engines



For my own peace of mind, I'll always run both my systems completely separate but be able to combine them in an emergency (that means to get me back home, not to stay out and keep fishing)

Rick


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[pescador]

Last question. When I install the new ICR battery switch (E Series dual circuit plus), I plan to separate the house load on one side and the main engine on the other. Should the kicker be connected to the same side as the main engine? In my case its a Yam 8 HT with elec start power lift etc. I am assuming so. I want to get this right. Thanks for your insights Wguy...appreciate you sharing your obvious expertise.....

 

[Wyrguy]

Last question. When I install the new ICR battery switch (E Series dual circuit plus), I plan to separate the house load on one side and the main engine on the other. Should the kicker be connected to the same side as the main engine? In my case its a Yam 8 HT with elec start power lift etc. I am assuming so. I want to get this right. Thanks for your insights Wguy...appreciate you sharing your obviously expertise.....

The best way is to keep your motor and house loads completely separate. The easiest way I found to accomplish that with the least amount of space usually available is to use two of the larger bus bar terminal strips, one for the main & kicker positive cables complete with an insulating cover and another one for the negative cable connections from the batteries, main & kicker, as well as allowing for other negative wire connections too (ie: LED lighting, bilge pump, wash down pump, DR's, etc) The easiest way to be able to ever troubleshoot any potential problems is to have all the connections grouped together. I have 2 Group 27 batteries mounted beside each other (start & deep cycle) I have the two battery negative terminals connected together with a nice beefy chunk of #4/0 AWG then a single #4/0 AWG run to the common negative bus bar that the motors negative leads connect to. I use #2/0 for each of the positive leads from the batteries run to the Dual Cct Plus battery switch and I have a #2/0 from the start battery 'load' side of that switch to the common positive bus bar that feeds both motors. The other 'load' side of the battery switch for the house loads, feeds a BlueSea Safety Hub 100 fuse panel for my Feed to my helm panel, my two Scotty 2106's, some LED bilge area light strips, the bait well and wash down pumps. I also have a small 6 cct 24/7/365 panel that runs all three of my bilge pumps, a high water alarm and also several other LED's to light into the motor well area in case I 'need' to see anything on my motors at dark o'clock!
As an Electrical safety officer, I've been told that my install is overkill, but I'm kind of a belt AND suspender guy that has also been known to look both ways before crossing a one way street.
Hope that all makes sense and can help you get it done. Shoot me a PM if you want...

Rick

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[Sir Reel]

I have the Blue Sea ACR with off/on battery switch with one start and 2 house batteries. How does this work with both the main and kicker running. I think both my motors go to the start side.
However if I have both engines running my main alarm goes off. I have a diesel and I like to let it idle for 3 minutes before shutdown and then start the kicker while setting up.
The Yamaha charges both start and house once it is up and running. Question is can I damage something with both charge circuits going or are the internally protected? Or is there a different way of wiring?

 

[daddystoy]

Any chance of you posting a photo of that electrical set up Wyrguy? It would be interesting to see. I have been thinking about changing my 1,2,both switch to an add a battery set up with ACR from Blue Sea.

 

[bigdogeh]

The switches with the AFD on them are not for isolation between the house & start batteries. That is an extra switch built in to the main battery switch to disconnect the Alternator Field power to certain types of alternators that require a positive lead to them that allows them to generate electricity. If you turn the main battery switch to 'off' without first turning off the alternator field power, you blow the regulator on the alternator. The Start Isolation part of the BlueSea ACR is a completely different function. It's like comparing an apple and an orange.
Here's a good description of the AFD function from Blue Sea:

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/91/Alternator_Field_Disconnect


Nobody ever said that you have to have your start and house battery loads separate, it's just that a lot of problems being blamed on the electronics are actually caused by switching, starting, and low voltages when running everything together (motors and electronics)

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/63

https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles/Automatic_Charging_Relays/65/Start_Lockout_for_Two_Engines



For my own peace of mind, I'll always run both my systems completely separate but be able to combine them in an emergency (that means to get me back home, not to stay out and keep fishing)

Rick


Reluctantly sent from my iPhoney using this crappy Tapatalk app... ��

yes, all good info Wyrguy. I've read most of this info quite a few times over at the blueseas site and their is a wealth of info there. I haven't looked now but I remember that the switch is basically the same but you could set it basically two ways depending on how you wanted to use it. one was for start isolation, and the other for alternator field disconnect. correct me if i'm wrong... (I probably am haha) (edit, yes I am wrong after going back and having a better look) main thing is to ensure you wire it properly and their are many different diagrams over there to guide you in what you are trying to acomplish. pretty hard to beat blueseas products, and their support, literature, diagrams, etc are second to none... a bit more price-wise mind you, but well worth it in the long run, imo...
I also run both system separately for peace of mind. (well actually 3 systems...) I do admit the new combine switch does make things easier and is a bit simpler if starting a system from scratch...

edit, yes it seems as you've mentioned, start isolation pertains more to the acr and afd pertains to the switch in my case, the 9002e... been awhile since i've had a look but a good brush up for me anyways... not the most electrically challenged but i have a couple friends that are electricians and a few in instrumentation as well so that comes in handy..

 

[bigdogeh]

Any chance of you posting a photo of that electrical set up Wyrguy? It would be interesting to see. I have been thinking about changing my 1,2,both switch to an add a battery set up with ACR from Blue Sea.

this may not be Wyrguys setup but may be what similar to what your looking for. they have a lot of different wiring setups if you dig around in their website though....
the second link you can select more than 1 engine, etc...

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/990170140.pdf

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/170/Battery_Management_Wiring_Schematics_for_Typical_Applications

 

[bigbruce]

I have the Blue Sea ACR with off/on battery switch with one start and 2 house batteries. How does this work with both the main and kicker running. I think both my motors go to the start side.
However if I have both engines running my main alarm goes off. I have a diesel and I like to let it idle for 3 minutes before shutdown and then start the kicker while setting up.
The Yamaha charges both start and house once it is up and running. Question is can I damage something with both charge circuits going or are the internally protected? Or is there a different way of wiring?

Can't comment on your situation specifically because of the diesel, but I have a similar Blue Sea ACR set up andrun both my kicker and main engine (VP 5.0 GXi) at the same time. The charging systems on both engines have diodes that protect them from damage in these situations. With the Blue Seas system, it really doesn't matter where your engines are connected as the ACR simply recognizes that a charge is coming from somewhere and does it's thing, ensuring the starting motor is fully charged before "opening" and charging the house batteries as well. I have my kicker connected to the house side of the system simply because it was more convenient to do it that way. The system itself doesn't care. When my boat is in the driveway, I have a maintainer attached to the house side as well and again, the ACR simply distributes the charge as it sees fit.

 

[Sir Reel]

Thanks bigbruce.
That is the way I have mine connected too so not upsure why the alarm comes on.
It is not immediate. Maybe after a minute or so. If it's not doing any harm then it just serves as a reminder that both engines are running. I will have to investigate it further.
I have a Xantrex charging system as well and both work as designed charging both house and start when a charge is present and isolating when not.
One thing I did was install a Blue Sea green diode at both my cockpit helm and inside helm so that I can see the ACR is working properly. There is a diode out connection on the ACR. It is actually a ground so you hook the diode up to positive on one side via a 1amp fuse.