BC Provincial Election-I Voted Already
- Thread starter Dogbreath
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trendsetter
Active Member
Donations don't necessarily translate into policy. All that shows is the company donated to the party in power and those numbers are over 8 years. You will notice they also started donating to the NDP 2011 onwards.
Edit: Infact in 2012 Enbridge donated more to the BC NDP than the Liberals.
2012 BC NDP: $6300.00
2012 BC Liberals: $5020.00
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I wonder how many taxpayers jobs are created by putting in the infrastructure for the mining, forestry and oil and gas, exploration, development and ultimately extracting of the resources is, all of who pay taxes which offset those costs you speak of.
If you think the NDP will do a better job please feel free to vote for them, but keep in mind your kids will be paying for it.
BC can not afford to keep funding all the social programs we already have never mind more without continued revenue from royalties from natural resources
GLG
Well-Known Member
Well that's my whole point.... We stopped getting royalties from resource extraction and are now paying them to extract our resources for the sake of jobs. Both federal and provincial we have moved from royalties to subsides and the true cost is being picked up by us taxpayers. Will it stop? We have committed to doing so but there is a lot of push back from the resource extraction sector.... can't blame them as it would hurt their bottom line.
http://www.oecd.org/site/tadffss/CAN.pdf
Add the dollar amounts with this excel link
http://www.oecd.org/site/tadffss/CANdata.xls
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trendsetter
Active Member
There is a lot of information in those links but they're describe taxation, credits and incentives for the most part. When you read the 2013 BC Budget natural gas royalty payments alone are expected to be $652,000,000 in 2013/2014.
What the actual value of royalty payments and economic output minus government incentives is I'm not sure. I'm confident however that it is a big revenue source for the province.
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triplenickel
Well-Known Member
This is so full of error you can't be serious, powerlines? The vast majority, I'd guess and it's just a guess from seeing things first hand is that 90% of the O&G sector is off the grid and generates it's own power. The flow of royalties is vastly in favor of the province forget about the hundreds of millions they generate in land sales every year, plus the obvious jobs and the tax they generate. The province does not build the roads the O&G companies do and maintain them with the exception of a few P3's out there. Guess what, that's even more jobs created. If the flow is as you say back to the big bad oil companies what do you suppose is driving the economic engine of this province? It's not kayak guides from Quadra, every single family in this province benefits from industry and resource extraction you are in no way holding the short end of anything. The benefits even trickle all the way down to the people who work for CMA at our airports.
PS; drilling and exploration in North Eastern BC is a tiny fraction of past years due to a prolonged slump in gas prices the government is having little if any effect on exploration rates. I know nothing of the mining situation though.
Dennis.t
Active Member
Get your head out of your arse! Those ships aint gettin built! Lol
GLG
Well-Known Member
Well I guess this confirms that the oil and gas players are the good guy's here in BC then....
Some of us have a different opinion as perhaps some of us have watched and worked in this industry for a spell.
We have seen how the answer to our petro problems seems always to be more subsides to these companies.
How about giving these articles and read and come back with you thoughts.
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/pol...olly-using-resource-royalties-fund-public-ser
and this one....
http://thetyee.ca/News/2010/11/09/GasBillForOilSands/
Won't even go into the hidden price our planet is paying for extracting and burning all this "stuff".
Yea it's putting money into people pockets but the questions is who's pockets and a what price to others.
GLG
SVIAC contacted the candidates on southern Vancouver Island to find out where they stand on fisheries and environmental issues. Please find the results of this survey on SVIAC's website: http://anglerscoalition.com
GLG
Well-Known Member
2013 Infrastructure Royalty Credit Program
http://www.empr.gov.bc.ca/OG/oilandgas/royalties/infdevcredit/Pages/default.aspx
cost to taxpayers this year .... 120 million off any royalties they have to pay this year.
The government has no problem tell us how much they are going to collect this year....
As for electricity why is it we need that site c dam again? something to do about LNG?
We all know when industry is a customer of BC Hydro they get one sweet deal.
Problem is, us taxpayers pay for those deals.....
http://www.empr.gov.bc.ca/OG/oilandgas/royalties/infdevcredit/Pages/default.aspx
cost to taxpayers this year .... 120 million off any royalties they have to pay this year.
The government has no problem tell us how much they are going to collect this year....
problem is they don't seem to take into account what they give back.
As for electricity why is it we need that site c dam again? something to do about LNG?
We all know when industry is a customer of BC Hydro they get one sweet deal.
Problem is, us taxpayers pay for those deals.....
GLG
Well-Known Member
Here is what we are looking at with a new coal mine in the Comox Valley.
That's why I'm voting NDP this go around.
I sure would not mind voting green but to split the vote and get the liberal elected is insane.
Be sure you read the comments at the end of the article....
http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/05/10/Comox-Raven-Mine/
That's why I'm voting NDP this go around.
I sure would not mind voting green but to split the vote and get the liberal elected is insane.
Be sure you read the comments at the end of the article....
http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/05/10/Comox-Raven-Mine/
My $40 membership at work. Thanks for posting that up.
fish stalker
Active Member
Interesting thank you!!
(Is it my comp?I cant see anything when trying to open the pdf responses)
A better way to run the election?
I hate that I need to worry about splitting the vote and having another party win because I don't vote for one of the two. I know it's hard enough to get everyone to vote but I wish the system was changed so that in any riding where the winner does not have the majority of the overall votes cast then the bottom candidates would be eliminated and everyone who voted for them would have one or two days to re vote then see who the winner is.
So in a riding of 1,000 votes liberals get 400 votes, NDP 350, greens 150, conservative/independent 100.
The greens etc. would then be eliminated this year and there would be 250 people who could re vote for either liberals or NDP. It could be without the split vote the people actually choose NDP even though liberals won the first poll due to the splitting of the vote.
Isn't democracy about getting who the majority of people want in? Currently it's just a big game and it is a little sickening to see liberals saying yes if you won't vote liberal please vote green. I'm voting for who I think will do the best job for me but instead I feel I should vote against who I don't want in vrs. Who I do want because if the person I do want doesn't get enough initial support somebody I don't want could slip in the back door.
They call us a democracy but the way everything is set up politically in Canada (and the USA) getting away from 1 of 2 choices is almost impossible. Then when there is a reasonable 3rd choice people are encouraged not to vote for them because you split the vote and somebody the majority does not want can get in anyways.
This is probably why a lot of people don't bother voting.
I hate that I need to worry about splitting the vote and having another party win because I don't vote for one of the two. I know it's hard enough to get everyone to vote but I wish the system was changed so that in any riding where the winner does not have the majority of the overall votes cast then the bottom candidates would be eliminated and everyone who voted for them would have one or two days to re vote then see who the winner is.
So in a riding of 1,000 votes liberals get 400 votes, NDP 350, greens 150, conservative/independent 100.
The greens etc. would then be eliminated this year and there would be 250 people who could re vote for either liberals or NDP. It could be without the split vote the people actually choose NDP even though liberals won the first poll due to the splitting of the vote.
Isn't democracy about getting who the majority of people want in? Currently it's just a big game and it is a little sickening to see liberals saying yes if you won't vote liberal please vote green. I'm voting for who I think will do the best job for me but instead I feel I should vote against who I don't want in vrs. Who I do want because if the person I do want doesn't get enough initial support somebody I don't want could slip in the back door.
They call us a democracy but the way everything is set up politically in Canada (and the USA) getting away from 1 of 2 choices is almost impossible. Then when there is a reasonable 3rd choice people are encouraged not to vote for them because you split the vote and somebody the majority does not want can get in anyways.
This is probably why a lot of people don't bother voting.
triplenickel
Well-Known Member
Those are interesting articles for sure, I read them both. However the point of your post was about how the Province is paying gas companies to do business with taxpayers money, neither article supports it. The first is clearly contradictory to your stance even listing dollar values and the second is about Alberta's Oil Sands. Our conversation was about royalty flow in BC you're clouding it up with the comments about the obvious environmental impacts, it would be wonderful if the world ran on puppies and rainbows but that's not reality nor is it the subject of our conversation.
You never did answer my question about what's driving this province if it's not resource extraction, I'd also like to know your thoughts on what you suggest as a viable alternative. I'm curious to know where you're coming from to better understand your stance so how long did you work in the industry, what did you do, and where? What do you currently do for a living? In the interest of full disclosure I've been at it in Ft. Nelson for the last 10 years as a plant operator.
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tincan
Well-Known Member
I know I wasn't asked the question but I'll chime in my with 2 cents (which I am aware now rounds down to zero without the penny around).
Your ? is "what's driving BC if it's not resource extraction?"
Like many somewhat educated people/voters, I do see resource extraction as a vital part of our economy going forward... I just see it being done in a MUCH different way than it has in the past and is being done now. I see it being down in a more sustainable way while putting the health of our ecosystems first and foremost. I see it being done with a longer-term vision that involves creating industry and jobs for the LONG-term that will serve to add value to these resources (refining oil, gas, re-opening mills, green tech, manufacturing) as opposed to the all-too-often "Let's get this **** outta the ground as quickly as possible" mentality that is causing untold environmental consequences as well as limited/non-existent long-term economic benefits.
While we're talking about resource extraction, I feel the one resource that we on this forum all care about is the Pacific salmon. This is a BC resource that has the ability to continue to replenish itself year after year. This is a resource that contributes billions to our economy and asks nothing in return other than that we don't destroy it's habitat. This is a resource that provides tens of thousands of direct and indirect jobs in BC - jobs that are sustainable and meaningful. Why is it that we feel we can sacrifice such an important and sustainable resource of BC in order to appease the rapid, unsustainable resource extraction industry of a neighboring province?
Your ? is "what's driving BC if it's not resource extraction?"
Like many somewhat educated people/voters, I do see resource extraction as a vital part of our economy going forward... I just see it being done in a MUCH different way than it has in the past and is being done now. I see it being down in a more sustainable way while putting the health of our ecosystems first and foremost. I see it being done with a longer-term vision that involves creating industry and jobs for the LONG-term that will serve to add value to these resources (refining oil, gas, re-opening mills, green tech, manufacturing) as opposed to the all-too-often "Let's get this **** outta the ground as quickly as possible" mentality that is causing untold environmental consequences as well as limited/non-existent long-term economic benefits.
While we're talking about resource extraction, I feel the one resource that we on this forum all care about is the Pacific salmon. This is a BC resource that has the ability to continue to replenish itself year after year. This is a resource that contributes billions to our economy and asks nothing in return other than that we don't destroy it's habitat. This is a resource that provides tens of thousands of direct and indirect jobs in BC - jobs that are sustainable and meaningful. Why is it that we feel we can sacrifice such an important and sustainable resource of BC in order to appease the rapid, unsustainable resource extraction industry of a neighboring province?
What a wise statement! Why are YOU not on the ballots? You'd have my vote without a second thought.
triplenickel
Well-Known Member
I completley agree with you and wish it could be so. No business runs without the pressure for growth though, there's lots of easy examples. Maybe a restaurant in Tofino serving 90% tourists should sell a few less burgers or halibut and chips, think of the help it would give obesity not to mention the fossil fuels used in the production, processing, and delivery of the products. Tourism is killing the environment!! lol Never gonna happen, not reality. As far as fishing goes yup brings in billions no contest but follow the money one or two steps farther up the chain, how was it originally earned? In this province it probably started as a tree, a rock, methane, some crude etc... you get the idea. It gets so tiring to hear some of the narrow scoped views here (not you at all amigo) lets take some fishing guides since this is a fishing forum I see them on here regularly denouncing these industries and looking down their noses as if they're somehow above it yet have zero issues taking them as clients, taking their money, and filling up at the pump. They're absolutley no bettter or less reliant on the industries they rally against. Lets not even get started on government employees especially taxpayer paid politicians biting the hand that feeds. Off my soapbox now!
edit; I don't know why I let myself get dragged into political threads, I came here to talk fishing and besides all the choices suck! I find myself voting against a party not for one, it's like a choice between the clap and aids. I hope it works out for everyone.
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