B.C. Premier Clark, Alberta Premier Redford reach deal on pipelines

Andrew P said:
This won't happen though; the way that the industry works now is so bothersome to me because it is international oil companies and the baby boomers in Alberta that are profiting the most from this, and Canada and BC will be picking up the tab long term.
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Most of the manpower building the Tarsands are from outside the province of Alberta. From all over Canada and to a lesser degree, the United States. And the economic spinoffs are mind boggling, providing jobs to thousands and thousands of Canadians. The Tarsands is what drives the Canadian economy.
 
can someone explain to me why we have this bounty of oil in canada yet we ship it to everywhere else to be refined and sold back to us for a higher price? please explain why we are not refining, and then using and selling?

simple question - not so simple answer?

by the way, well said earlier chris73.
 
[*]Down in the States again they are doing a lot with solar and wind power in Arizona and Nevada. The equivalent of 6 gallons of gasoline energy falls on an area the size of a tennis court every hour down there. I saw a TV documentary which said 10% of the Federal lands in Nevada covered with solar generation capability could supply the entire energy needs of the U.S. So away with the hand wringing and sobs of despair that we can do nothing against the almighty market god. We can do anything we want.
[/LIST][/QUOTE]

interesting and so true - few months ago when we were on Oahu, reading the local paper about the wind farms on the West coast of the island... large majority of folks disputed and generally distaste the farms yet it is a HUGE and green generation of energy that sits literally in the trade winds and produces an ungodly amount of energy for the isolated islands...

I understand the price of getting these farms up and running, maintained, etc - high bill to pay for it now, or really pay for it later it seems!
 
banger17 said:
can someone explain to me why we have this bounty of oil in canada yet we ship it to everywhere else to be refined and sold back to us for a higher price? please explain why we are not refining, and then using and selling?
simple question - not so simple answer?
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The problem of refining all the oil here in Alberta and Canada is a logistical one. Refining creates specific blends of gasoline's, fuels and additives. All of these products are meant to meet specific needs for certain regions. Once separated from the base crude oil. They need to be stored and transported separately. Under a model that refines all oil here, we would need hundreds more pipelines transporting each individual petroleum product across North America. Then hundreds more ships to carry each individual refined fuel overseas. The other issue is many refined fuels are much more volatile/explosive because they are lighter. Analogy: compare diesel to gasoline. It is more economical/cheaper to send the crude closer to its end-use market, where it can be refined/customized to meet the needs of that local economy (i.e. our purchasing clients). What is economical for them is also economical for us. Screw that equation up, and suddenly our products are too expensive and uneconomical and will not be purchased/imported from Canada. Countries we export to will turn to other cheaper exporting countries. Then all of Canada would lose in a major way from lost taxes and royalties collected from the petroleum industry. Not to mention all the unemployed. And unemployed people don't pay income taxes which means our country would be royally screwed in a hurry.
 
Dennis.t said:
The Tarsands is what drives the Canadian economy.
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If this is true we are going down a path that will gamble our future on 60 dollar a barrel oil.
What happens if OPEC decides to turn on the taps and bring the price down to 55.
How many jobs will be lost when that happens?
There are a few of us on here that have been down that road in the past and remember that well.
Reminds me of a bumper sticker we use to have on the company truck.
"Please lord let there be another boom and I promise not to **** all my money away next time."
The old men that are driving this agenda have lost there marbles and are teaching only the boom lesson.
The young men are drinking their kool-aid and have no experience with the bust cycle.
The tarsands are driving the Alberta economy not the Canadian economy.
Years ago Alberta saw the folly in basing there economy on only oil and diversified.
Sad really that the gamblers took over and have made it dependent on the price of oil.
Dennis.t said:
The Tarsands is what drives the Canadian economy.
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Perhaps you should have a look at these two links about the Canadian economy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada

Perhaps because I don't gamble makes me see the folly in the tarsands or BC pipe dreams.
GLG
 
GLG, Englishman and other - GREAT! responses. I am so friggen tired of hearing the speaking notes generated by the politicians and the corporate banking PR industry.

The roulette wheel and distraction called the "stock market" is NOT what makes this spaceship called Earth - tick. The stock market is an invention designed to increase the profits and control of the banks, while the costs of this smoke and mirrors have been born by the taxpayer. They preach that the stock market encourages competition and innovation (survival of the fittest); meanwhile they pump $700 BILLION into those poor US banks and bankers; the taxpayers pay the bankers $MILLIONS in "bonuses" for doing...a good job???.

The stock market has failed before, and will again. It would have done so just a few years ago w/o the taxpayer injection. It's way beyond time to recognize that the "stock market" is an inappropriate model for good governance and successful continuation of human civilization - the same civilization that also depends upon the processes on spaceship Earth to provide food, space and health for all humans and other organisms on this planet. The Earth will function very well (even better) w/o the stock market. W/o Earth; we have a pile of bankers in suits floating around in empty space. The priority is to survive for the next 2-3 Billion years when the Andromeda galaxy will fly through the Milky Way throwing apart solar systems; and also the same time when the sun will reach the red giant phase and expand and swallow Earth. Not sure what the plan is next after that. The plan sure should never be to steal as much money from everyone else, live 70 years so you can die from cancer, or a heart attack at 45 when you are lugging that heavy big-screen TV in the door of your mansion at the top of the hill.

What's the point of all this? Why are we here? What will we do with our very short lives? What should we do? THOSE are the important questions that the stock market pushers never seem to slow down enough to ask. Our corporate society - as it currently stands - never seems to want those questions to be asked or thought about. We are distracted until we loose sight of what is really important.

The history of all FAILED civilizations have show this pattern. The history of the few successful civilizations recognized the importance of planning for long time frames, using more consensus-based governance structures. Even the Constitution of the US states: citizens have the right to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness". No mention of the stock market, Wall Street, or derivatives.

I think we have needed to refocus on what is really important for a while now...
 
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Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere yet but this is a very well done video re: the what's at stake with the Northern Gateway Pipeline proposal. Grab a coffee and sit back for 30 minutes and take it in.

[video=vimeo;78876102]http://vimeo.com/78876102
 
I read about gas wars on the island, everyone wants cheap gasoline for their cars, boats atvs, etc. You are all supporting the process in one way or the other.
I will rename that, lets call fossil fuels and all by products a "Turd" every one thinks or would like to believe that there is a clean end of the "Turd" and that is how they are picking it up. In short, the bad news is, there is no clean end of the "Turd" and your fingers are going to stink!
 
Yup she is a turd but it's not so simple. We all have a part to play and according to the latest report on climate change here in BC most of us are playing our part. There is only one sector of our economy that are laggards. You guessed it the O&G sector.
As required every two years under the Greenhouse Gas Reductions Target Act, the 2012 Progress to Targets Report, Making Progress on B.C.'s Climate Action Plan, <small>(PDF/6MB)</small> has been released.
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Have a look how everyone here in BC is pulling it's weight and shouldering their responsibility to this pressing problem.
Everyone except those who believe in the pipe dream that is.....
Will we make it? It all depends on those two oil and gas girls....
If it looks like our girl wants to take us off track... well, we have the tools to get back on track.
 
What I would really like to see proof is that the money from the carbon tax you are paying is going towards developing better energy sources. That my good man right now is not happening. It is all going into general coffers, which is then pissed up against a wall by your and my politicians.I have a very hard time digesting that fact and when you compare that to the promise the are making about Gateway I have this distinct feeling our butts are going to be sore again.
English is correct in a way but the whole game is just smoke and mirrors and they will have their way somehow.
 
...um sorry they been having their way forever...as long as oil holds out ...they will be filling their banks with our gas money!
 
Gunsmith said:
I read about gas wars on the island, everyone wants cheap gasoline for their cars, boats atvs, etc. You are all supporting the process in one way or the other.
I will rename that, lets call fossil fuels and all by products a "Turd" every one thinks or would like to believe that there is a clean end of the "Turd" and that is how they are picking it up. In short, the bad news is, there is no clean end of the "Turd" and your fingers are going to stink!
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LOL!!

Best post in a while!

I don't have a solar powered outboard unfortunately... and don't know anyone that does.

Still hate the pipeline, but you summed it up perfectly!!
 
The pipeline goes against common sense on how we should be using our resources. :)
Osama Bin Hopper said:
LOL!!

Best post in a while!

I don't have a solar powered outboard unfortunately... and don't know anyone that does.

Still hate the pipeline, but you summed it up perfectly!!
Click to expand...
 
Osama Bin Hopper said:
LOL!!

Best post in a while!

I don't have a solar powered outboard unfortunately... and don't know anyone that does.

Still hate the pipeline, but you summed it up perfectly!!
Click to expand...

Osama, you are attempting to be clever with that remark about solar. Unfortunately it is anything but.
No-one seriously believes you can drive a boat with solar power so why trot that one out?

However, If you think you cannot drive a boat with fuel derived synthetically from solar power you do not know your physics and chemistry.

And before you fall back on the old economics/cost argument that is because costs we pay now do not currently cover the externalities. The economic and health costs of climate change to the world and to Canadians are going to be beyond comprehension. (We have already lost the Interior forest industry to Mountain pine beetle and that is just a tiny start.)

So Gunsmith did not sum it up perfectly. He only summed up what we all do now if we do not change anything. The reason many of us do not want the pipeline has to do with the devastating effects on BC environment, yes. But is is much bigger than that. It is a symbol of the status quo, of business as usual, of "carry on and don't mind the heat". It is a continuation of the folly which has to be slowed and turned around somehow. Halting the pipeline will be the citizens saying we have to start changing - not that we are "purer" than the oil maniacs and somehow untouched by the mess we have all contributed to. But that we want the political, social and economic might of Canada directed to starting to clean up the mess, not to making it worse!!
 
Englishman said:
Osama, you are attempting to be clever with that remark about solar. Unfortunately it is anything but.
No-one seriously believes you can drive a boat with solar power so why trot that one out?

However, If you think you cannot drive a boat with fuel derived synthetically from solar power you do not know your physics and chemistry.

And before you fall back on the old economics/cost argument that is because costs we pay now do not currently cover the externalities. The economic and health costs of climate change to the world and to Canadians are going to be beyond comprehension. (We have already lost the Interior forest industry to Mountain pine beetle and that is just a tiny start.)
Click to expand...

If only I were as clever as you!

I don't know my chemistry and physics! What a douche I am!! Just a fisherman, sure am envious of those that know everything... Let me know when and where I can buy the fuel of which you speak ! Hope you have patented it and are selling soon, as I would be the first in line.

However... currently I'm fueling with marked gas as is everyone else.

And will be for the foreseeable future.... I'm not really sorry for trying to make light of it either! Gets a bit depressing around here often - but you sure do your part to keep it fun!!! lol

Anyhow, have atter, let me know when I can get the alternative fuel for my boat.
 
Osama Bin Hopper said:
If only I were as clever as you!

I don't know my chemistry and physics! What a douche I am!! Just a fisherman, sure am envious of those that know everything... Let me know when and where I can buy the fuel of which you speak ! Hope you have patented it and are selling soon, as I would be the first in line.

However... currently I'm fueling with marked gas as is everyone else.

And will be for the foreseeable future.... I'm not really sorry for trying to make light of it either! Gets a bit depressing around here often - but you sure do your part to keep it fun!!! lol

Anyhow, have atter, let me know when I can get the alternative fuel for my boat.
Click to expand...

All I was doing was defending the folks who are working against the pipeline whom you were implying were simple douches by your remarks.
It is a complete non sequitur to say because we currently use petroleum products, we must be for the pipeline and for the tar sands.

And Northern Gateway is nothing to do with providing fuel to Canadians for our boats and cars either.

As I said in my earlier post this pipeline is a symbol of the things that need to start changing. Yes it will take money, sacrifice and hard work (and time!) but the "do nothing" alternative does not look too bright does it!

So we can either be part of the push for political and monetary change so that resources are brought to bear on creating alternatives, or we can jeer from the sidelines with "let me know when I can get the alternative fuel for my boat".
 
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