Are we losing what makes B.C. special?

[seascene]

With respect, OnTick - "trickle-down" doesn't work. It never has. It is a lie designed to placate those who wish to believe in a Reganomics view of economics. See:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/21/offshore-wealth-global-economy-tax-havens
http://www.faireconomy.org/trickle_down_economics_four_reasons

Right on. A Christy Clark type gal from recent history. "Let them eat cake". Damn if only the result of that statement could find CC and the trickle down spin juggernaut. Trickle down is a new twist on the old marching song of Marxists "useful idiots" being the recipients of trick down.

 

[OnTick]

What's the alternative to trickle down?

 

[agentaqua]

What's the alternative to trickle down?

Pay workers more - instead of the billionaires - tax rich more - poor less. Accountability for bankers - jail for some...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/...temptation-an-opaque-array-of-tax-breaks.html

 

[OnTick]

Pay workers more - instead of the billionaires - tax rich more - poor less. Accountability for bankers - jail for some...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/...temptation-an-opaque-array-of-tax-breaks.html

Who decides who isn't being paid enough? How much should they get paid? Am I being paid too much? I don't think I'm anywhere near being rich, but just under half my pay goes to tax. As far as I see, the labour market tends to narrow down the going rate in the fairest way.

Let's take Ireland and Apple for an example. Apple saw Ireland as an extremely low tax rate and decided to boost its workforce there from 400 to over 6000 people. You don't think that's trickle down working in the people's favor?

You know what happens when Trickle down deniers and the "rich" haters get their way? That business you work for moves somewhere more favorable.

 

[agentaqua]

Maybe looking at Iceland would be more informative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–2011_Icelandic_financial_crisis

 

[Birdsnest]

Who decides who isn't being paid enough? How much should they get paid? Am I being paid too much? I don't think I'm anywhere near being rich, but just under half my pay goes to tax. As far as I see, the labour market tends to narrow down the going rate in the fairest way.

Let's take Ireland and Apple for an example. Apple saw Ireland as an extremely low tax rate and decided to boost its workforce there from 400 to over 6000 people. You don't think that's trickle down working in the people's favor?


You know what happens when Trickle down deniers and the "rich" haters get their way? That business you work for moves somewhere more favorable.

I agree. things are right where they are for we have to compete with a global labour and tax market. Labour Cost to much or to much tax and the companies just leave the country. I wish it wasn't so.

 

[OnTick]

AA. The notion is pretty simple.

Make your country as good as you can get for business and the people win. It's not the other way around. Thats what gets wages up. Not regulations and taxes.

Even that dimwit Trudeau saw the writing on the wall and approved the pipeline.

If, and it turns out a big if, Trump does what he says in regards to less regulation and taxes then Canada better tread carefully.

 

[Wild Bill]

Who decides who isn't being paid enough? How much should they get paid? Am I being paid too much? I don't think I'm anywhere near being rich, but just under half my pay goes to tax. As far as I see, the labour market tends to narrow down the going rate in the fairest way.

Let's take Ireland and Apple for an example. Apple saw Ireland as an extremely low tax rate and decided to boost its workforce there from 400 to over 6000 people. You don't think that's trickle down working in the people's favor?

You know what happens when Trickle down deniers and the "rich" haters get their way? That business you work for moves somewhere more favorable.

I don't know if it's a fair way.. perhaps...
I just retired from the airlines, the company I worked for had some issues with heavy maintenance and eventually succeeded in separating the aircraft mechanics from the parent and dissolving the company they worked for. The people left have been commuting to different bases for years working line trying to get enough years in to retire or recall to the city they live in. Family's, marriages, stressful. So yes this may be good for China and South American company's however I see less and less decent paying jobs staying in Canada and it's not like airlines is lucrative unless your a pilot.

 

[OnTick]

Yep, unfortunately that happens and it's not exactly what the workers would like to see.

My point is, what's the alternative? Does the government step in and mandate a wage and location of work for those mechanics? Do you think many business' would stick around or open up shop if that were the case.

It's all fine for the gov to tell a business what I has to do, but if that business goes bust who hurts? The gov doesn't care. The owner who risked his capital on that enterprise loses and so do the people who rely on him to feed his family.

The other alternative is for those skilled workers to try and find another workplace or industry to work in. A mobile workforce helps wages and conditions.

 

[Wild Bill]

In this case I think it was probably millions of hours of unproductively. I herd stories that AC in for a check mechanics would dog f$&@ until AC was scheduled out and company would offer overtime to finish. Had an avionics friend hired on he would get his job card and finish the job two hours later and ask for another job and his boss told him about the book club and told him that was his job for the night. He quit and went to helicopters and did well.
Still don't understand why management couldn't implement change, yes the ethics were engrained in the staff and they certainly had power, I have noticed there is a new culture in the last few years and work ethics have improved. I think they could have kept the jobs in Canada.
Actually a company started up in Quebec, got an embrier contract. Bet they don't have the same productivity issues.

 

[OnTick]

Its all a cycle Wild Bill.

The old boys that were in the workforce when I started had a good work ethic. It steadily declined from my generation on.

One day it will turn back around, but for now I think it's set in stone. With globalism rife, there are too many ways for labour to be outsourced. We need to hurt again to bring back the appreciation of a job/any job like my grandfather had. Those guys went through ROUGH times.

It took a long time for the west to get how it is now and it'll take a long time to get rid of that sense of entitlement.

Watch how many jobs are replaced by robots of many sorts now. You already see it at warehouses/supermarkets/McDonalds. Soon truck drivers/taxi drivers will be replaced by autonomous vehicles.

My kid better adapt or he will be living with me for the rest of his life.

 

[Wild Bill]

I agree with what you say lol! Daughter just finished education last week and working full time the day after (ab pays better), one more year for oldest son UBC computer engineering, be designing software for those robots, youngest son just finishing high school. Just need to convince my wife to retire, so need to get back to my island paradise and become part of the problem Influx of Albertans. My defence when I started with Wardair in Vancouver I would have stayed, my wife wanted family support while bearing children lol, tough to argue that one.

 

[OnTick]

Nice one bud.

I often think the only real benchmark I have for success is if my kid is independent after school and still wants to spend 10 hours on a boat dragging lines with me.

 

[seascene]

Nice one bud.

I often think the only real benchmark I have for success is if my kid is independent after school and still wants to spend 10 hours on a boat dragging lines with me.

...a habitable planet would be another. **** sapiens is not going extinct ...we are racing there. We could consider trickle down spending as the wisest economic strategy for success as our infinite consumption on this finite, infinitely small biosphere (likened to film of water on a basketball) is a dog that can not hunt much longer. (...and as emphasized by the world's most famous, eminent scientist just yesterday).

 

[GLG]

Wow I can't believe that anyone is arguing for trickle down economics as a theroy that works. It's like throwing a hotdog into a pack of dogs and expecting them to share. The truth is that history has shown that when you have a strong, large and sustainable middle class then you have a great economy. When people in the lower rungs in the economy have opportunity and a path to the middle class that is the correct thing to do. Trickle down economics has been written about in many places but I'll just link to one.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/steved...ds-dumbest-idea-milton-friedman/#2568ef19870e

 

[OnTick]

Again. What's the alternative?

The middle class is built by the upper class investing their capital.

Trickle down has been demonized by politicians looking to rouse up the lower income class and disenfranchised middle class. "Vote me in, I'll make those rich bastards pay!" Then turn around and give their buddies loop holes.

Attack the rich and they leave, it's really that simple guys. Then who employs the people?

 

[agentaqua]

Again. What's the alternative?

That's been answere numerous times, already, OT:

...We could consider trickle down spending as the wisest economic strategy for success ...

Why are you so attached to an unsupported theory?

 

[OnTick]

Name one!

Capitalism brought the west to the top. The direction of excessive socialism we are heading will not succeed but the utopian view people have of it makes them defend it, probably to the literal end.

 

[ericl]

Dunno about Canada but down here trickle down means tax cuts for the rich. Read the part on how this just pumps up the deficit:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/trum...4eoLyEw&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=3DSZzBn9fU1TM1

The theory is that the tax cuts for the wealthy will stimulate economic growth which will create more revenue. As you can see from the above referenced graphs, it hasn't done so yet.
Trump wants to cut corporate tax rates from 35% to 15%. That means growth/revenue needs to more than double to match lost tax revenue. When Reagan was first running, he proposed this & Bush senior was running against him & he called it "Voodoo Economics".

One thing you can say about Bush senior is he is a very polite man.

Meanwhile back at the thread BC will always be special because you are 30 or so years behind us in turning your home into an environmental **** hole, and as I have learned on this forum you have people who are non-progressive; just not as many as we do.

I can still go to Mansons Landing & pick oysters like 30 years ago.

 

[OnTick]

Of course it's tax breaks for the rich and ideally for middle class too.

So what's yours thoughts about the trillions of dollars waiting to come back to the US if they get a tax break? Why do you think that money left to start?