And the pile- on continues inspite of CK's refusal to face the truth!
- Thread starter Cuba Libre
- Start date
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
A new thread, just for me?!
You shouldn't have.
Seriously, you shouldn't have.
"#1: Farm-Raised Salmon"
"Where it’s banned: Australia and New Zealand"
Fact check.
Thanks Wikipedia, here's Australia.
Salmon
The Australian salmon industry is based in Tasmania, Victoria and South Australia. The aquaculture sector involves the collection of broodstock and production of fingerlings for grow out in sea cages, which are located in offshore and inshore waters. Feeding and harvesting operations at sea are performed by a specialist fleet of vessels, with the most common operating hours occurring between 4:00am and 8:00pm. The Tasmanian Salmonid Growers' Association Ltd is the peak body representing salmon growers throughout Tasmania.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaculture_in_Australia#Salmon
Wait a minute...New Zealand has it's own Salmon Farm Association?
Thanks Internet, that was easy.
"Half of all salmon farmed in New Zealand is eaten locally – much of it served in family kitchens and at backyard barbecues."
http://www.salmon.org.nz/
Keep it up
Lol farmed salmon is #1 on the list of 10 American foods banned in other nations. Then instead of addressing the content regarding farmed salmon in the article CK instead re directs to some web searches indicating Australia and New Zealand dable or have dabled in farming on a very small scale.
Glad to see Canada has banned some of those foods too but we are way behind some other nations. Giant food companies are a terrible thing they put anything into their food for profit.
That grain fed grey fleshed salmon that 's made pink through chemicals sure sounds yummy though... Barf
Glad to see Canada has banned some of those foods too but we are way behind some other nations. Giant food companies are a terrible thing they put anything into their food for profit.
That grain fed grey fleshed salmon that 's made pink through chemicals sure sounds yummy though... Barf
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
You guys are hilarious!
You are actually willing to take something you've seen on the internet, without bothering to check the veracity of it, and put it up here as fact - simply because it aligns with your views.
Unbelievable.
Farmed salmon is banned in Australia and New Zealand?
"Australia and New Zealand dable or have dabled in farming on a very small scale"?
"Nearly 93 per cent of Tasmanian salmonid production was sold
in the domestic market in 2006-072. Interstate sales of salmon
account for 85 per cent of Tasmanian salmon production, and local
sales account for 8 per cent. The chart below demonstrates how
important interstate markets are, with sales generating more than
$300 million revenue in 2006-07."
http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter/nsf/Attachments/CART-7SPV8Y/$FILE/Industry%20profile%20SALMON.pdf
"Salmon were introduced into New Zealand more than 100 years ago; salmon faming started in 1976 and the industry has expanded since then"
http://www.med.govt.nz/sectors-indu...-investment-opportunities-salmon-industry.pdf
Maybe you guys should work a little harder at vetting your material before you try to start a thread attacking me with alarmist crap from Mercola et al.
Charlie
Well-Known Member
I don't think that is as easy as you think, CK? and yes, CK please check your facts and answer the following! Quoting from the article (emphasis added):
"Farmed salmon are raised on a wholly unnatural diet of grains along with a concoction of antibiotics and other drugs. This diet leaves the fish with unappetizing grayish flesh, so to compensate, they're fed synthetic astaxanthin made from petrochemicals, which has not been approved for human consumption. Farmed Salmon fed these chemicals are banned in Australia and New Zealand." So, would you mind answering the following? Does your company:
1) use a "wholly unnatural diet of grains along with a concoction of antibiotics and other drugs," including SLICE?
More importantly - reading the article a little closer, as to what those countries actually "banned." Please answer, does you company in BC:
2) feed your farmed salmon "synthetic astaxanthin made from petrochemicals"?
Not getting into how "wholly unnatural diet of grains along with a concoction of antibiotics and other drugs" changes the health benefits for the worst. The article didn't say Australia and New Zealand didn't raise Atlantic salmon. It actually states the use of "synthetic" astaxanthin (not approved for human consumption) was banned both in Australia and New Zealand!
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
Sorry Charlie, you might have been correct about what the article actually stated -But the article is still wrong.
"We feed our fish for the first couple months of life canthaxanthin in their diet and then for the last 12 months or so we move to 100% astaxanthin until harvest; the astaxanthin is synthetically derived and is nature identical, providing health benefits to the fish and a superior looking and tasting product for our customers.."
http://www.tassal.com.au/carotenoids.html
"Formulated by the world’s leading salmon feed suppliers, the diet includes proteins, vitamins and carotene from astaxanthin to provide carefully balanced nutrition."
http://www.kingsalmon.co.nz/ArtofRaisingandPreparing/index.html
And yes, our feed does contain Astaxanthin.
Here's a little more about carotenoids: http://www.bellona.org/aquaculture/artikler/Dyes_in_salmon
Mercola's fearmongering about food safety is always worth investigating.
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Charlie
Well-Known Member
Question do you know the difference between "synthetically derived and is nature identical" and "synthetic made from petrochemicals"?
Well, your New Zealand King Salmon reference surely does seem to leave out the word "synthetic," doesn't it?
I appreciate the link; however, you seem to have failed to answer the two questions asked, again? Why is that? So, would you mind answering the following? Does your company:
1) use a "wholly unnatural diet of grains along with a concoction of antibiotics and other drugs," including SLICE?
2) feed your farmed salmon "synthetic astaxanthin made from petrochemicals"?
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ClayoquotKid
Active Member
Astaxanthin that is not natural is synthetic - meaning it is either created using "petrochemicals" or through mutation of yeast, so that the molecular composition is "nature identical", meaning it functions nearly exactly the same when utilised by the fish (there are studies that show differences in efficacy, but effectively the same)
"Synthetic Production of Astaxanthin
Not all astaxanthin is naturally occurring. Synthetically produced astaxanthin is cultivated in laboratories where it is derived from mutated strains of another type of yeast, called Phaffia rhodozyma. UV light, gamma radiation, and/or mutagenic chemicals are used to produce the mutations that form the astaxanthin. In the United States, astaxanthin that is derived from Phaffia rhodozyma is only used as an additive in trout and salmon feed; it is not allowed for human consumption"
http://www.nutrex-hawaii.com/where-does-astaxanthin-come-from
Kind of like taking a synthetically derived, nature identical Vitamin C tablet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstein_process
"Today, almost all commercial astaxanthin for aquaculture is produced synthetically from petrochemical sources. While it constitutes a tiny portion of salmon feed (50 to 100 parts per million), astaxanthin represents a major share of the cost, up to 20%"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaxanthin
Here is a link which explains the difference and why Mercola may have felt comfortable extrapolating on the accepted use in his attempt to scare people off farmed salmon.
http://www.supremebiotech.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60&Itemid=76
As for your questions Charlie - This is what we feed our fish:
Ingredients - Fish meals, Poultry meal, Canola oil, Mineral premix, Wheat, Feather meal, Poultry oil, Canthaxanthin, Fish oils, Blood meal, Legumes, Astaxanthin, Canola, Corn gluten meal, Porcine meat meal, Vitamin premix
The astaxanthin is synthetic, nature identical and derived from *gasp* petrochemicals.
The feedmill is also compliant with BAP standards, although not yet certified: http://www.gaalliance.org/cmsAdmin/uploads/BAP-FeedMill-612S.pdf
Antibiotics and SLICE are only administered when needed:
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ahc/fish_health/Antibiotic_Graphs_1995-2008.pdf
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ahc/fish_health/Slice_1996-2008.pdf
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Actually the article said nothing about farmed salmon being banned it said American farmed salmon is banned. I can only assume canadian farmed is banned too but if it isn't CK will surely point that out.
BigBruce you fell for CK's mis-direction watch out for that when there is a point he doesn't like he spins the argument another way.
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
The original article stated "10 American Foods that are Banned in Other Countries", then went on to say, "steer clear of farmed fish, particularly farmed salmon fed dangerous chemicals...they’re fed synthetic astaxanthin made from petrochemicals, which has not been approved for human consumption and has well known toxicities." and, "Avoid Atlantic salmon, as typically salmon labeled “Atlantic Salmon” currently comes from fish farms. The two designations you want to look for are: “Alaskan salmon,...”
Sure seemed to me like they were saying farmed salmon was banned, and even if it said US salmon, they do the same thing BC and the East Coast of Canada do.
"It is also a fact that these carotenoids - astaxanthin and canthaxanthin to be exact - are produced synthetically to be used as additives in the feed of fish and poultry (to give the skin and egg yolks a brighter yellow color) and as colorants in and on a wide variety of foods. "
http://www.maineaquaculture.com/F_A_Q/f_a_q.html
Mercola is fearmongering about farmed salmon in order to promote "wild" Alaskan salmon (of which about a third are "ranched" ie raised in net pens and fed the same feed before being released)
Not only is the article misleading about what is supposedly "banned", it is full of inflammatory language like *gasp* "petrochemicals" and "wholly unnatural".
Rum Buddies
Well-Known Member
so you pump your fish full of petrochemicals and want us to feed it our kids?
Why would mercola put out a list of 10 foods banned in other countries of which only one has to do with farmed fish just to fear monger and promote Alaskan salmon as you indicated above?
I think they were just trying to help the reader understand how to identify a natural source of salmon and avoid the farmed stuff because for an un educated buyer it's not always easy to know if your buying farmed, wild, ranched etc. fish and presumably the most common non farmed salmon in the USA is Alaskan.
I think they were just trying to help the reader understand how to identify a natural source of salmon and avoid the farmed stuff because for an un educated buyer it's not always easy to know if your buying farmed, wild, ranched etc. fish and presumably the most common non farmed salmon in the USA is Alaskan.
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
Pump our fish full of petrochemicals?
Hardly.
Astaxanthin is added to feed in the range of 50-100 parts per million.
As I've said before, there is a staggering level of myopic bias, hypocrisy and double-standards found here when it comes to farmed salmon.
You're worried about trace amounts measured in nanograms of elements and compunds that are found in far higher levels in many, many other foodstuffs and products.
If people held the rest of their lives the same standard they choose to scrutinize aquaculture with they would be left quivering in a dark room, or living a Howard Hughes type "wipe the handle" existence.
People like Mercola make their livings off others fear and if you look at any website claiming "foods to avoid", full of inflammatory language and scary claims, you will inevitably find they are simply saying, "Don't buy this - buy THIS instead"
In my house when we run out of wild salmon in the freezer we eat farmed, or at any time in the winter and spring we feel like fresh fish we eat farmed.
Thousands of people East of the Rockies who do not have relatively easy access to fresh salmon eat farmed all the time without complaint.
There is nothing wrong, unhealthy, or dangerous about eating farmed salmon and it is only personal choice and taste which dictates whether you will enjoy it or not.
If you are an opinionated, self-righteous Westcoaster you may choose not to because of a personal bias and feel the need to gather and repeat all sorts of reasons to rationalize that decision - and most often, given the chance, you will attempt to push those ideas on others because in doing so you feel justified for holding such a firm position and want them to be on the "good" side of your false dichotomy.
I'm going to sign off for the weekend now and leave you guys to wonder where else those evil "petrochemicals" may exist in your life.
Maybe you might want to seek out a little context as well, or not.
Maybe you just like being mad...
[video]http://cheezburger.com/7742855168
Hardly.
Astaxanthin is added to feed in the range of 50-100 parts per million.
As I've said before, there is a staggering level of myopic bias, hypocrisy and double-standards found here when it comes to farmed salmon.
You're worried about trace amounts measured in nanograms of elements and compunds that are found in far higher levels in many, many other foodstuffs and products.
If people held the rest of their lives the same standard they choose to scrutinize aquaculture with they would be left quivering in a dark room, or living a Howard Hughes type "wipe the handle" existence.
People like Mercola make their livings off others fear and if you look at any website claiming "foods to avoid", full of inflammatory language and scary claims, you will inevitably find they are simply saying, "Don't buy this - buy THIS instead"
In my house when we run out of wild salmon in the freezer we eat farmed, or at any time in the winter and spring we feel like fresh fish we eat farmed.
Thousands of people East of the Rockies who do not have relatively easy access to fresh salmon eat farmed all the time without complaint.
There is nothing wrong, unhealthy, or dangerous about eating farmed salmon and it is only personal choice and taste which dictates whether you will enjoy it or not.
If you are an opinionated, self-righteous Westcoaster you may choose not to because of a personal bias and feel the need to gather and repeat all sorts of reasons to rationalize that decision - and most often, given the chance, you will attempt to push those ideas on others because in doing so you feel justified for holding such a firm position and want them to be on the "good" side of your false dichotomy.
I'm going to sign off for the weekend now and leave you guys to wonder where else those evil "petrochemicals" may exist in your life.
Maybe you might want to seek out a little context as well, or not.
Maybe you just like being mad...
[video]http://cheezburger.com/7742855168
Attachments
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Rum Buddies
Well-Known Member
if the petro chemicals are not a big deal why did you obfuscate the issue early? And if they are present in nanograms at what level should I begin to worry?
Another question do you admit that the use of antibiotics in farming in general is bad for people and the environment?
Another question do you admit that the use of antibiotics in farming in general is bad for people and the environment?
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Yup, and cigarettes are good for you too, so says a medical report done by responsibile, compentent, professionals.... check it out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz8EQT2LB-w
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
I know I said I was signing off for the weekend, but the cigarette comparison (again) needs to be put to rest.
Lets look at a comparison of ingredients...
Farmed salmon:
Cigarettes:
I would think that any rational human being would be able to see the difference between these two things, and not be tempted to compare the historical actions of the tobacco lobby to the current efforts of the aquaculture industry in countering misinformation and outright fabrication by opponents.
This seems appropriate...
[ueZ6tvqhk8U] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueZ6tvqhk8U
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