All Things COVID-19

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Same. Small business can't close anymore, and we can't afford to keep giving people free money to stay home. Same with business supports they need to stop at some point. Really how many more extensions? We have to live with virus, and if a passport is needed to get that message across so be it.

This country is seriously in debt right now, and I don't think people get it. If it is inconvenient for the unvaccinated that's a better alternative than I complete shutdown of non-essential business.

CANADA HAS 1.15 TRILLION IN DEBT! Scary!
 
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SpringVelocity said:
Same. Small business can't close anymore, and we can't afford to keep giving people free money to stay home. Same with business supports they need to stop at some point. Really how many more extensions? We have to live with virus, and if a passport is needed to get that message across so be it.

This country is seriously in debt right now, and I don't think people get it. If it is inconvenient for the unvaccinated that's a better alternative than I complete shutdown of non-essential business.

CANADA HAS 1.15 TRILLION IN DEBT! Scary!
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Israel is one of the most vaccinated place on earth and 65 percent of the covid patients now are double vaccinated. Back in February the vaccine success rate was at 95 percent now it is at 39 percent you won't hear any of this from Bonnie Henry
 
If you aren't into reading, there is three minutes of audio.
Here's a small part of the written portion.

3. If you get infected, being vaccinated helps.​

The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.

The bad news, doctors say, is that half of Israel's seriously ill patients who are currently hospitalized were fully vaccinated at least five months ago. Most of them are over 60 years old and have comorbidities. The seriously ill patients who are unvaccinated are mostly young, healthy people whose condition deteriorated quickly.

www.npr.org

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases. Here's Why

What happened? Here are six lessons learned from Israel's experience — and one looming question for the future of the pandemic.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
 
scott craven said:
This should create a whole new level of underground
counterfeit vaccination cards.
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The registration process we went through produces an electronic document via the BC Services card app, other provinces did something similar. Once the system settles down in a couple of months, physical cards will be more the exception than the norm.

I'm happy to see this development for non essential services. It's part of the persuasion/incentive concept rather than coercion. Better to extend this through the community and see how much it increases vax rates before compelling people via making it a condition of employment. I'm not a raging libertarian but that's a step too far for me.
 
Ian wagner said:
Israel is one of the most vaccinated place on earth and 65 percent of the covid patients now are double vaccinated. Back in February the vaccine success rate was at 95 percent now it is at 39 percent you won't hear any of this from Bonnie Henry
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So don't get the vaccine? Not sure what your point is. They have said people might/probably will need booster vaccines. We know the vaccines help prevent serious sickness. What do you think the death rate would be if Israel just skipped the vaccine? I really don't see where you are going with this.
 
dradons said:
They have said people might/probably will need booster vaccines.
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actually there is some competing science that says it may be more practical to let the virus circulate after two doses rather then go the booster root and go into the endless cycle of cases going up, measures like lock downs being implemented/mask mandates. Social gatherings restrictions ect….then boosters to lower the prevalence.

that having the live virus around constantly re exposing keeping peoples immune system topped out May be more effective
 
wildmanyeah said:
actually there is some competing science that says it may be more practical to let the virus circulate after two doses rather then go the booster root and go into the endless cycle of cases going up, measures like lock downs being implemented/mask mandates. Social gatherings restrictions ect….then boosters to lower the prevalence.

that having the live virus around constantly re exposing keeping peoples immune system topped out May be more effective
Click to expand...

I haven't really seen that, will have to look into it. However, that does sound logical as well. But sounds like they still want you to have two doses.
 
So many papers out of the UK and Israel are saying that Herd immunity is impossible. Even the WHO admitted it. With Delta the vaccine will not stop you from getting or spreading the virus. Same viral load in imunized people.

No question that the vaccine has been successful at severe out comes. I see it as a seat belt at this point for vulnerable pepole.

This said why huge push to vaccinat the remaining and more importantly kids. The original argument for kids was to achieve herd immunity. With that No longer an option, what is the benefits? YES kids can get sick and end up in hospital, BUT it's extremely low amounts. Those that are have underlying conditions, including obesity are at risk & parents can chose to vaccinat if they wish. There are much greater chance of a healthy kid being hospitalized from getting hurt on a play ground then from covid.

As for vaccine passports, what good are they if everyone can still catch it and has the same viral load?

Honestly the pepole in hospital who are not vaccinated are 98% pepole who are not healthy. Smokers, obesity and comorbititys.

I get we need to protect our health system, but simple measures are much more effective. We also need to understand that we will have pressure on our health system & be realistic. It's a pandemic and we can't stop it. A controlled burn in the community is the only real option. The slower the burn, the longer this will go on.

Trudeau politicized Covid vaccines as soon as the election was known. Polititions want everyone dividing and fight amongst each other so we are distracted and won't focus on real issues in the election.

The vaccine passports are rediculus. It completely ignores the latest scientific data. It's purely political. All it does is divisions amongst pepole and forces pepole to pick a side. With out heard immunity what's the purpose?

The biggest threat from this pandemic is propaganda from the government and media playing their tune. Best use for a mask is duct tape over thier mouths.
 
ILHG said:
So many papers out of the UK and Israel are saying that Herd immunity is impossible. Even the WHO admitted it. With Delta the vaccine will not stop you from getting or spreading the virus. Same viral load in imunized people.

No question that the vaccine has been successful at severe out comes. I see it as a seat belt at this point for vulnerable pepole.

This said why huge push to vaccinat the remaining and more importantly kids. The original argument for kids was to achieve herd immunity. With that No longer an option, what is the benefits? YES kids can get sick and end up in hospital, BUT it's extremely low amounts. Those that are have underlying conditions, including obesity are at risk & parents can chose to vaccinat if they wish. There are much greater chance of a healthy kid being hospitalized from getting hurt on a play ground then from covid.

As for vaccine passports, what good are they if everyone can still catch it and has the same viral load?

Honestly the pepole in hospital who are not vaccinated are 98% pepole who are not healthy. Smokers, obesity and comorbititys.

I get we need to protect our health system, but simple measures are much more effective. We also need to understand that we will have pressure on our health system & be realistic. It's a pandemic and we can't stop it. A controlled burn in the community is the only real option. The slower the burn, the longer this will go on.

Trudeau politicized Covid vaccines as soon as the election was known. Polititions want everyone dividing and fight amongst each other so we are distracted and won't focus on real issues in the election.

The vaccine passports are rediculus. It completely ignores the latest scientific data. It's purely political. All it does is divisions amongst pepole and forces pepole to pick a side. With out heard immunity what's the purpose?

The biggest threat from this pandemic is propaganda from the government and media playing their tune. Best use for a mask is duct tape over thier mouths.
Click to expand...


That's right it is pandemic and it can't be stopped. We have to live with it.

Just remember the non-essential busienss (tourism) community wanted these passports because they can't be closed again. The government is also out of money to continue supports. CFIB also knows this.

Will vaccine help you if you catch Covid 19 from dieing? Yes/No. If No please point too some real scientific papers that say otherwise. I have been reading them and so far it says the vaccine does help. Including UK/Israel you mentioned.

The vaccines aren't a cure? Just because people have a medical condition doesn't put them beneath any of us with better health. I really can't understand the obsessiveness with breaking out people that have medical condition. That doesn't seem rational to me.

What do you want business owners to do? They can't police people from getting a vaccine. What do you want them do close again?
You have to get shots in certain countries to go. Like malaria etc. How is this really different?

This isn't about dividing Canada, and I don't like current goevrnment or any of the parties either. They all suck.

You personally don't have to have a passport it isn't mandatory. Just expect you will be excluded from going to concerts etc. That is all the government is saying. They are just facilitating what many business want.

I expect most businesses will be requiring them in the coming weeks especially ones that host events.
 
calgaryherald.com

Vaccination requirements in B.C. not expected to impact high number of Alberta travellers: tourism expert

Albertans will need to provide proof of vaccination against COVID-19 to attend events and restaurants when visiting B.C. next month.
calgaryherald.com calgaryherald.com

Overall, the tourism industry in B.C. is supportive of vaccine requirements because of surging COVID-19 infections due to the Delta variant.


“In our industry, there’s always a fear of restrictions or shutdowns if we don’t reverse the current trend. This is much better and accepted in our industry if only because it protects employees, guests and the businesses,” Judas said.
 
SpringVelocity said:
That's right it is pandemic and it can't be stopped. We have to live with it.

Just remember the non-essential busienss (tourism) community wanted these passports because they can't be closed again. The government is also out of money to continue supports. CFIB also knows this.

Will vaccine help you if you catch Covid 19 from dieing? Yes/No. If No please point too some real scientific papers that say otherwise. I have been reading them and so far it says the vaccine does help. Including UK/Israel you mentioned.

The vaccines aren't a cure? Just because people have a medical condition doesn't put them beneath any of us with better health. I really can't understand the obsessiveness with breaking out people that have medical condition. That doesn't seem rational to me.

What do you want business owners to do? They can't police people from getting a vaccine. What do you want them do close again?
You have to get shots in certain countries to go. Like malaria etc. How is this really different?

This isn't about dividing Canada, and I don't like current goevrnment or any of the parties either. They all suck.

You personally don't have to have a passport it isn't mandatory. Just expect you will be excluded from going to concerts etc. That is all the government is saying. They are just facilitating what many business want.

I expect most businesses will be requiring them in the coming weeks especially ones that host events.
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Great reply. No doubt vaccines are a benefit and definitely prevent severe outcomes. I'm vaccinated and am very happy I did.

You have a solid point about being out of money and avoiding another shut down. I can't argue. From a business point of view I can see it. But the current science says it won't matter because of viral loads being the same in both Vaccinated and Non-Vaxed.

As for me pointing out pepole with a medical condition. I am in no way putting them beneath any other citizens. My Mother has COPD, and my sister has auto imunie disorder. My friend has a double lung transplant. What I was trying to say is if you have these underlying conditions and don't get vaccinated, then your on your own. You can't fix stupid and darwins laws of evolution need to play out. I'm at wits end with my dad. Apparently GOD dosen't want him to get his second shot... I have accepted I can't do anything else and I will not carry guilt when he dose get Covid. Eventually everyone will get. Those who have protection will have the best chance. I see it as a seat belt.


I don't have the answers on how we should proceed. But I do believe that pepole need to be told the truth and that governments need to avoid making any of this political
 
Sea lyin’ said:
Horseshit. Time to cut the crap. A full 63% of Canadians support vaccine passports. The misinformation and politicization is coming from the antivaxxers and the politicians who pander to them. Google this **** before posting it up for everyone to see.
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This is exactly what I'm taking about.... No way to have a conversation. I never said Canadians don't support a passport. You picked a side and want any questioning or sober thoughts to be muzzled.
 
My understanding is that even with high viral loads of Delta, on average, serious symptoms are dramatically reduced.

No guarantees, but that's what ultimately pushed me to get vaccinated: I think the high transmission rates of Delta are going to result in higher case rates over the winter. I expect to be exposed, but I don't mind getting it, if my odds of serious illness are dramatically reduced.

And despite some success with fluvoxamine, it's looking like most of the hoped-for treatments and prophylactics aren't bearing a ton of fruit.

I'm aware of the breakthrough cases but still every doctor I know who's dealing with this says that the overwhelming majority of serious cases they're seeing, are unvaccinated people. One doc I know has seen a couple of really bad breakthrough cases on fully vaxxed people, but both were so chock full of comorbidities that they were kind of exceptional to begin with. So it's not foolproof, but for me personally, it's the choice I went with.

And I think I can safely assume nobody is going to say I've been a pro-government conformist stooge!

Although I continue to be totally opposed to mandatory vaccination.

Interestingly I do personally know one guy who was vaxxed up with J&J this spring, AND taking ivermectin. He's also a very fit, strong guy who recently retired from a career as a cop. He contracted covid and landed in the hospital for ten days and survived, but not all that easily.

Anyway, that was a J&J breakthrough I personally know. He did say that in the hospital, the doctors and nurses were all pretty much in agreement that the overwhelming majority of serious cases were unvaccinated people, and this is indeed exactly what I hear from everyone I know involved with it.

So, again, just for me personally, that's about enough and I decided to get the shot.
 
Just a reminder to all to keep your posts civil and stay away from the personal shots and dismissive tone in your posts.

Thanks.
 
Yup masks are back, here are the details.


Mask mandate to reduce transmission, protect people in public spaces​

As of Wednesday, Aug. 25, 2021, masks must be worn in all indoor public spaces throughout B.C. to help slow the transmission of COVID-19 as B.C. prepares for the fall and respiratory illness season.

A new order from the provincial health officer will require people 12 and older to wear masks in indoor public settings, regardless of vaccination status. These settings include:

  • malls, shopping centres, coffee shops and retail and grocery stores;
  • liquor and drug stores;
  • airports, city halls, libraries, community and recreation centres;
  • restaurants, pubs and bars (unless seated);
  • on public transportation, in a taxi or ride-sharing vehicle;
  • areas of office buildings where services to the public are provided;
  • common areas of sport and fitness centres when not engaged in physical activity;
  • common areas of post-secondary institutions and non-profit organizations; and
  • inside schools for all K-12 staff, visitors and students in grades 4-12.
This temporary order will be reassessed as the B.C. vaccine card requirement is fully implemented in certain social and recreational settings, as announced on Aug. 23.

“As transmission of COVID-19 increases in B.C., primarily among unvaccinated people and in part due to the Delta variant, it’s important to take this extra temporary step to make indoor public spaces safer for everyone,” said Dr. Bonnie Henry, provincial health officer. “We need to continue doing the things that protect us, including wearing masks in indoor, public areas, practising hand hygiene regularly, staying away if we are sick and keeping a respectful distance from people. And most important of all, every person should get vaccinated to protect themselves, their loved ones and their community.”

For the purposes of this order, a mask or face covering is defined as a medical or non-medical mask that covers the nose and mouth. Face shields are not a substitute for a mask, as there is an opening below the mouth.

“As unvaccinated people continue to get sick and hospitalized with COVID-19, we’re taking another step to ensure we overcome COVID-19 together, and that we move forward together,” said Adrian Dix, Minister of Health. “Our pandemic has always been about making good choices with the information we have and making the best choices to keep people safe. Now more than ever, we need to follow the advice and orders of the provincial health officer.”

People who cannot wear a mask or who cannot put on or remove a mask without the assistance of others are exempt. A person may not be able to wear a mask for a psychological, behavioural or health condition, or due to a physical, cognitive or mental impairment.

Masks may be removed temporarily in indoor public places to identify the individual wearing the mask, to consume food or beverage at a location designated for this purpose, while participating in a sport or fitness activity in a sport facility or while receiving a personal or health service that requires the mask to be removed.

Masks are not recommended for children under the age of two, but should be encouraged for children aged two to 12 in public settings. Children older than 12 must wear a mask in a public indoor space, unless they are exempt.

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2021HLTH0053-001665
 
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