60lb/15lb Halibut Limit - Let's Discuss

[Dave S]

HUH???.........holmes*

not saying I have all the answers........just thinking out loud......I think you do that too eh?!

I know the real answer is getting more TAC, but we currently don't have the time or the resources to fight that one.

Maybe you boys want to chime in on ideas to extend the season without restricting size, possession, length of season?

 

[Mourning Wood]

I've enjoyed being a part of this web site and have learned a great amount of knowledge because of it. I'm sure hope most of the people that post on this site (especially this thread) have read this essay. I can't imagine many of you haven't at least heard of it. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/incoming/article5908175.ece/BINARY/Epic+Fail+
I know this is salmon centrical but I think it's just as relevant. I personally think current systems have long been broken. I love the fact that there are some people in Ottawa that are concerned with our nations protection and want to have some big boats in the water, but as far as fish are concerned, all they should worry about is how many holes the ice fisherman cut into the Rideau canal. I guess some funding for off shore biomass research isn't unwarranted.
Calling out other recreational fisherman whether sporty or guide isn't the way to go! It's easy to point a finger while typing a keyboard. I think the Province has to get much more involved in our fishery. Fortunately we are in a provincial election year and are due for some lip service so let's try to make sure that that lip service is for anglers. Go to the local jargon assemblies that your provincial government puts on for your benefit and ask the right questions of the said candidates. If you have time go to the next one the next town over and ask the same question to spread the message and try to bring accountability to the answers they give you.

I don't think Ottawa has the answer we want and you can be damn sure the non or pseudo angling public doesn't have a clue what they're losing. All we can do is band together as anglers and try to educate the masses (I'll throw my boat in the harbour mouth for a day). Please feel free to throw me into the fire or PM me cause I'd love to learn more.

 

[Hindsight]

Thanks, that info was what i was looking for .. Cheers Thanks for the work you do

I have been asked to summarize what happened from some PM's received this is directed to those that wanted info from me.

Last year at SFAB there was a mad dash to come up with a recommendation for halibut.
DFO did not give SFAB enough time to consult with the local SFAC.
After the fact SFAC passed a motion that next year they need to consult with us first.
So in October a PDF was sent out with options for this year and request that we give them guidance.
The document was posted here and we had a lively conversation.
Most SFAC then had open house meetings to get input from the community.
Those options where rehashed again then and a vote was taken.
In Area 14 we accepted 1/2 slot, restrict gifting and we had previously passed a motion for some annual limit. It was also important for us to have a full season.
We were against... Max size, Time and Area Closure, Area Allocation
So that's what was on the table from our SFAC-14 to South Coast SFAB
It went to South Coast (SC) SFAB and after much discussion from other area SFAC's a broad set of recommendations were passed to Halibut Working Group and SFAB Main Board.
Off the table from SC SFAB :Time and Area Closure, Area Allocation
On the table: daily possession limits, season length, size limits, etc.
Support :implementation of a 5 halibut annual limit for the 2013 season and that the Halibut Committee develop a proposal for linking an annual limit to abundance. Halibut opening date of March 1 at the earliest for the 2013 season. Highest priority should be given in the modelling process to extending the halibut season if at all possible to the end of September.

So that's what the SFAB Halibut Working Group (HWG) had to work with. From there they waited for IPHC and DFO to get all the numbers together and build the models. I'm sure that the HWG went back and forth with DFO to try to make the TAC fit. It was presented to SFAB Main Board for discussion and a vote. That's where we are today.... 1/2 - Slot 15/60 lb, 6 annual limit, full season. So you see Area 14 got some of what we wanted but we did not get the no max size.
We got two halibut - yea I know we got a max size and that's why there is people upset
We got Annual Limit - helps keeps the gifting down and hopefully spreads the TAC to others
We got Full Season - I know we were sick of having our season shut down.
So you can look at it like this : Win, Win, Lose or Lose, Win, Win
One thing to note is this is a recommended experiment and only good for this year.
DFO has the final say as to what our season will look like. If you contact them that's up to you.
We will be back at this next year when the Halibut numbers are in from IPHC and DFO.
I will put forth what Area 14 anglers decide next year and will defend those decisions.
GLG

Here are somethings I won't do.....
Take disrespectful comments or questions that are meant to start a fight here on this forum. I will not stir the pot as that's not what anglers do. I will not answer question from members with there agendas. I'm not here so you can make a batch of popcorn and start a shyt fight for your own entertainment.

 

[Gerry]

Having to try and release any halibut over 60 lbs is a foolish proposal as far as I am concerned. Almost every time that I have caught a halibut I have had to cut the hooks out of it as they were too deep to remove. Even if I have to cut the line at the surface to let it go, I guarantee that it won't survive being hooked that bad. How is that supposed to help stocks???

 

[Osama Bin Hopper]

Having to try and release any halibut over 60 lbs is a foolish proposal as far as I am concerned. Almost every time that I have caught a halibut I have had to cut the hooks out of it as they were too deep to remove. Even if I have to cut the line at the surface to let it go, I guarantee that it won't survive being hooked that bad. How is that supposed to help stocks???

This has nothing to do with protecting stocks, just prolonging the TAC.

Again, I think it will be worse for stocks, but DFO was forcing something. It's akin to picking which form of toture you are gonna die from in my opinion.

It ain't a choice you want to make and you are going to hate the result regardless of your choice!

 

[profisher]

Was giving some thought to alternate ways to slow down the catch which extends the season. Bait ban, artificial gear only would reduce the catch and eliminate all the concerns with releasing larger fish.

 

[Osama Bin Hopper]

Was giving some thought to alternate ways to slow down the catch which extends the season. Bait ban, artificial gear only would reduce the catch and eliminate all the concerns with releasing larger fish.

C'mon, those are propositions that would help the fish and that isn't what this is about! lol

Granted that would be a tough pill to swallow, and it could result in annihlation of the breeder banks where those little guys jump at anything... of course you can still fool a hawg on a rockpile with a mudraker...

 

[wolf]

IT wont GERRY !!!!!!I have stewed on this all weekend and one thing really bothers me not long ago we had HUGE meetings in Vic, rupert ,nanaimo and beyond regarding halibut with the b.c. sport fishing coalition and i met some of the players mentioned who VOTED for this mess, back then it was the stand to get 1/2 no limits no size and thousands and thousands of people showed up in FORCE with all the same agenda...that was at a 88/12.

NOW at 85/12 the sky is falling and we got a bigger mess the DFO FLYOVER and there models are wrong I sat a few weeks back and we disputed there numbers they swore up and down there "right" we had marina day slips etc for the marinas bad weather records EVERY thing they still said on one day that there was over 400 boats from race to caboro pt fishing halibut. they sort of want to hear but not really.

Putting a max size restriction isnt going to help one bit because there will be mortality and to be honest thats not fair to the fish,letting a big fish go to die becuae of a stuid regulation is well DUMD!!! we fish to harvest ddoesnt matter if its big or small but if we get a 75 ber whhhhoooo hoooo that a bonus and trust me it pumps you up...!!!!!!

In areas where the size is bigger the biomass of size in a certian slot will basically dissaper and you will be left with sure you maybe left with bigger fish gone will be the ping pongs 20s and then you ill catch 8 lbers because the dismiss of the 30sto 40s will be elimanated and you expect in 5 years there going to come back good luck on that.
To end i have and always been a supporter of the SFAB but im wounded this hurts knowing some voted in favor of this mess and to that shame on you .....to even consider this you people are soooo wrong

"DONT COME TO BC FOR TROPHY HALIBUT GO TO ALASKA"

 

[steel_dreamin]

I've asked that many times with no response whatsoever. To date they won't even question the model or acknowledge it's blatantly obvious faults and shortcomings.

The challenge of the IPHC's new model was successful because lower 48 state experts challenged it, DFO experts challenged it and private experts hired by the commercial sector reviewed it and challenged it. I've asked the question, given the way fishery decisions have been going, whether it be the halibut fishery or chinook restrictions due to early timed Fraser Chinook - why don't the sport fish groups come prepared with their own experts to challenge the models and put forth our position? As I stated in the other thread, you wouldn't go to court to battle over these issues without a lawyer, so why do we expect Joe Good-hearted, Well-intentioned Fishermen to be able to represent us on his/their own up against DFO managers and scientists?

Makes no sense and clearly has it's shortcomings. Hopefully SFAB/SFAC folks and the new South Coast Coalition give this some serious thought for the future. Just my opinion.

Ukee

Thanks, that's what I was getting at.

I follow a similar process in my current line of work - Pay the experts (scientists) to do what they do best. I don't expect that the SFAB is comprised of people who are capable of digesting such issues but rather representing the SF. If there are shortcomings in expertise on the AB that should have been made clear and the neccessary experts retained to support. Too little, too late this year but it is something we should be seriously considering to position ourselves for next year.

 

[profisher]

There is another problem...he vast majority of sports fishermen are to cheap to donate to their own cause. If you want studies done and experts to back your position...bring out the wallet, no one (except the SFAB guys) work for free.

 

[the fog ducker]

agree with a few here ,
but again , most people with licenses are not on this forum ,
talking to several of guys i know that fish halibut in my area , ,most bonk 4- 6 fish a year ,
a full season as guys are calling it here , from March ta Sept , is not a deal breaker , if it were ta be left 1/2 or 2/3 , no slot , and it shut down in mid or late July ,tac has been hit , then so be it , we'll fish for salmon , as most of us do anyway, no rule changes needed until our tac improves, we wont have ta fight ta get back what we once had , why are you on this site involved here, so worried about keeping it open longer if were lackin fish ?? kinda concerning , i vote leave it alone , when the magical invisible fish counters tell us weve hit our mark , shut er down !! i plus 50 fellow fisherman all agreed to this ???? i could prob find more....better than the ridiculous proposals im reading here , really concerned about whos running the ship ... anyone else agree ???

m2b

fd

 

[Hindsight]

I agree DFO fly overs are wrong, they are basing it all on assuptions we are Fishing Halbut and Taking our limits every time. At least on the Swiftsure fly overs. Now a days I just go to fish Coho & Chinook at the Ranch, to them i am Halibut fishing, and with Limits on board. If they want numbers come look at my Log book on board.

IT wont GERRY !!!!!!I have stewed on this all weekend and one thing really bothers me not long ago we had HUGE meetings in Vic, rupert ,nanaimo and beyond regarding halibut with the b.c. sport fishing coalition and i met some of the players mentioned who VOTED for this mess, back then it was the stand to get 1/2 no limits no size and thousands and thousands of people showed up in FORCE with all the same agenda...that was at a 88/12.

NOW at 85/12 the sky is falling and we got a bigger mess the DFO FLYOVER and there models are wrong I sat a few weeks back and we disputed there numbers they swore up and down there "right" we had marina day slips etc for the marinas bad weather records EVERY thing they still said on one day that there was over 400 boats from race to caboro pt fishing halibut. they sort of want to hear but not really.

Putting a max size restriction isnt going to help one bit because there will be mortality and to be honest thats not fair to the fish,letting a big fish go to die becuae of a stuid regulation is well DUMD!!! we fish to harvest ddoesnt matter if its big or small but if we get a 75 ber whhhhoooo hoooo that a bonus and trust me it pumps you up...!!!!!!

In areas where the size is bigger the biomass of size in a certian slot will basically dissaper and you will be left with sure you maybe left with bigger fish gone will be the ping pongs 20s and then you ill catch 8 lbers because the dismiss of the 30sto 40s will be elimanated and you expect in 5 years there going to come back good luck on that.
To end i have and always been a supporter of the SFAB but im wounded this hurts knowing some voted in favor of this mess and to that shame on you .....to even consider this you people are soooo wrong

"DONT COME TO BC FOR TROPHY HALIBUT GO TO ALASKA"

 

[Dave S]

There is another problem...he vast majority of sports fishermen are to cheap to donate to their own cause. If you want studies done and experts to back your position...bring out the wallet, no one (except the SFAB guys) work for free.

took the words right out of my mouth. Anyone interested in seeing some change, attend this upcoming meeting. http://anglerscoalition.com/?t2t_event=sviac-annual-general-meeting

 

[Tailspin]

So by full season, does that mean were going back to Feb-Dec 31st. I don't think so! to me it is still a Mystery Opener is it not? I sure as hell don't see any exact dates yet! The pain this slot will inflict on the local Industry will be felt for many years, not just for the guides. I'm talking about local sport fisherman and derbys who support the community we call Halibut Sport Fishing. like Wolf said you want trophy fish go to Ak.

That's not a good message to send! To any outdoors enthusiast Not in the know it just screams that our halibut fishery is in conservation minded trouble. I know the salmon slot has entrenched the same for JDF. All in the same time, the local commy boys will be business as usual, many from the comforts of the armchair.

So until the Halibut is shared equally, between Canadian citizens, this mess will only fall deeper into a political shuffle.

Sure on on hand we should appreciate the countless hours donated by SFAC SFAB, I for one don't agree this is a win by any stretch of the imagination. It makes me sick to see us squirm while the commercials, some who I happen to be good friends with, giggle with pleasure. Or how about the guys on the West Coast who bought experimental quota! Is that slot protected too?

 

[scott craven]

On an earlier post someone stated they would " rather stab them self in the balls than attend another meeting"
Here is a statement on meetings that I would like to post:

THE PURPOSE OF MEETINGS
Meetings are used in almost every organization as a way of communicating
information to other people.
Their principal functions are to:
• Inform.
• Seek ideas.
• Seek clarification.
• Resolve problems.
• Discuss proposals/ways of working.
• Take decisions.
• Settle disputes.

I believe the meetings held thus far are missing on 2 key issues,
Resolving problems. & Settling disputes.
These have not been dealt with to the satisfaction of most anglers.
So what is the purpose of more meetings with no resolutions ?

Perhaps it is time to show dissatisfaction in another manner. ?
an organized one day protest fishery after an early closure might draw
the attention of authorities to our issues ?
I do not advocate breaking the law as a usual means of action however
meetings and letter writing are not getting the job done in my mind.

 

[Striper Sniper]

Hi profisher.


I really don't want to just live with it. Living with things is what has us in the predictment right now.

On an earlier post someone stated they would " rather stab them self in the balls than attend another meeting"
Here is a statement on meetings that I would like to post:

THE PURPOSE OF MEETINGS
Meetings are used in almost every organization as a way of communicating
information to other people.
Their principal functions are to:
• Inform.
• Seek ideas.
• Seek clarification.
• Resolve problems.
• Discuss proposals/ways of working.
• Take decisions.
• Settle disputes.

I believe the meetings held thus far are missing on 2 key issues,
Resolving problems. & Settling disputes.
These have not been dealt with to the satisfaction of most anglers.
So what is the purpose of more meetings with no resolutions ?

Perhaps it is time to show dissatisfaction in another manner. ?
an organized one day protest fishery after an early closure might draw
the attention of authorities to our issues ?
I do not advocate breaking the law as a usual means of action however
meetings and letter writing are not getting the job done in my mind.

Holy crap, Craven is going rouge, guess I had better start paying attention........

SS

 

[GDW]

I see a real problem with the current process. True recreational fishermen and commercial enterprises (big guide outfits and lodges) SHOULD NOT BE MIXED.

You guys say the SFAC is volunteer what I'm reading is IT'S NOT. If you have a big business that profits off recreational fishing and you spend unpaid time on a board fighting for YOUR BUSINESS your paying yourself. Me as a weekend warrior that would be volunteer. Somebody who owns a lodge makes a good profit and spends time ensuring they continue to make that profit is not volunteer it's part of the cost of doing business.

It's utter ******** that the big lodges of the north who profit off recreational fishing have so much pull in how our season works out. The true recreational angler and even the guide doing it on his own is lost in all of this. Big business controls the commercial sector, and now big business is starting to control the rec sector.

I bet there are people on the SFAC who have a major conflict of interest in that they have business in either recreational fishing or commercial fishing - OR BOTH.

Who is this regulation good for and who supports it? The answer is COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISES that pretend they are RECREATIONAL anglers. Somebody who pays 5 grand for 5 days fishing at an all exclusive lodge up north is not a recreational fishermen he is the client of a commercial enterprise who is exploiting the recreational resource.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

I don't see it as good for me...or our resource...Someone mentioned northern Vancouver Island, I don't know a single NVI guide that agrees with this, you must look farther north...

 

[BearCove]

I for sure in hell don't agree with it, it's friggin ********! I am a one boat operation, trying to make a living but I am a rec fishermen first. This all started last year when we gave up concessions to so call extend our season. This opened the flood gates for DFO to really do whatever they want. I still believe that there is no way DFO will shut us down before Sept. They would be cutting their own throats and have an amazing backlash of protest, from all sectors, rec, guides, lodges. It is easier for them to do what they are doing now, pre-season rules that we all ***** about. If we would have not taken the slot last year, said no, I am pretty sure they would have found some money stashed somewhere to get us through. Closing in August would be a disaster for them.

Only my thoughts,

 

[Oceanmaster]

For sale Hali rods, anchor set, what the heck, boat too!
Need money for Alaska Hali trip with my ex Clients.