Federal Court of Appeal quashes construction approvals for Trans Mountain

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walleyes said:
My friend I've been having this discussion with them on this board for 10 years now. 10 years ago they all said in 5 years oil would be dead. 5 year ago they said in 8 years oil will be obsolete. Well here we are time keeps marching on oil usage keeps increasing and will do so until alteast 2039 - 50 then start to decrease in incremental steps. But you can't discuss this with them it's like talking to your 6 year old that no matter what you say, you can be right as rain they'll stand there and say, yah but my friend said, yah but my friend said lol,, it's pointless. They live in a small world it ends at that ferry and for some the world ceases to exist just beyond that ridge just east of Hope BC. Just let them exists in their world,, trust me your head will appreciate it.
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Floater, don’t listen to this guy. He not only insults all of the people in BC, but denigrates and ignores all the science. He is the worst kind of deluded, the one who thinks he know more than all the climate scientists throughout the world. He does not care that BC is burning and that record temperatures are occurring everywhere across the world including the one that killed 70 people in Montreal this summer.

His total mis-characterisation of the educated people on this forum as 6 years olds, is also disrespectful and insulting. The very tone of this rhetoric gives you a clue as to who he is and what he represents. Blind adherence to the god of oil because he think his livelihood depends on it. No matter that my grandson will have to live in a vastly changed world he wants to create. No matter about the millions of lives and livelihoods across the world that will be destroyed.

This result is the clear consistent message of the science, not “my friend says this etc”. But as he says, it is pointless dealing with him. Myself, GLG , Agent Aqua and many others have provided mountains of science that show we cannot continue with what we are doing. But he lives in a world that ignores the science and ruthlessly continues to believe in business as usual, whatever the cost and to whomever it may fall upon.
 
Walleye is not my source of info, lol. We just happen to agree on a few things. One of them, I bet is that humans should seriously think about not shitting in our own nest.

In saying that, humans causing climate change is NOT settled science. Infact, it’s quite dangerous for people like yourself and “climate scientists” to claim it is. The lastest volcanic eruptions in Hawaii just released enough co2 into our atmosphere that erased the good work we did on emissions in the last 8 years. Think about that and ponder how many eruptions happen each and every year. Think about whether or not co2 is even a pollutant.

This is as much a political debate as it is a scientific one, with those on the left tending to cause this.

As I have said, maybe 100 times now. I know we need to change, but it will happen in good time. Change before we are ready is just political “problem solving” and will hurt more than it helps.

The free market will innovate and bring on the next level, NOT politicians and definitely not Enviro bullies, who seem to think that your grandson and my future grandchildren should not have been born.

There are many people in society today who lose sleep at night worrying about how they can impose their will on everyone else, it always seems to be for the “greater cause”. It’s sick.

I’m done with this man. Next....
 
Englishman said:
Floater, don’t listen to this guy. He not only insults all of the people in BC, but denigrates and ignores all the science. He is the worst kind of deluded, the one who thinks he know more than all the climate scientists throughout the world. He does not care that BC is burning and that record temperatures are occurring everywhere across the world including the one that killed 70 people in Montreal this summer.

His total mis-characterisation of the educated people on this forum as 6 years olds, is also disrespectful and insulting. The very tone of this rhetoric gives you a clue as to who he is and what he represents. Blind adherence to the god of oil because he think his livelihood depends on it. No matter that my grandson will have to live in a vastly changed world he wants to create. No matter about the millions of lives and livelihoods across the world that will be destroyed.

This result is the clear consistent message of the science, not “my friend says this etc”. But as he says, it is pointless dealing with him. Myself, GLG , Agent Aqua and many others have provided mountains of science that show we cannot continue with what we are doing. But he lives in a world that ignores the science and ruthlessly continues to believe in business as usual, whatever the cost and to whomever it may fall upon.
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Lol,, says the guy that when he unloads his boat at Andies boat launch with his old beater truck leaves a haze of smoke trailing out that old thing that clears the misquotes out of the whole camp site,, yup I've watched you my friend. Then fires up his oil injected 2 stroke outboard doesn't even respect the environment enough to run a cleaner burning 4 stroke and shoot if I remember right doesn't even run a trolling kicker trolls around with that oil injected 2 stroke.. Yup typical,, wants everyone else to sacrifice and points the finger at everyone but does nothing himself.

You know just saying lol.
 
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Floater said:
Walleye is not my source of info, lol. We just happen to agree on a few things. One of them, I bet is that humans should seriously think about not shitting in our own nest.

In saying that, humans causing climate change is NOT settled science. Infact, it’s quite dangerous for people like yourself and “climate scientists” to claim it is. The lastest volcanic eruptions in Hawaii just released enough co2 into our atmosphere that erased the good work we did on emissions in the last 8 years. Think about that and ponder how many eruptions happen each and every year. Think about whether or not co2 is even a pollutant.

This is as much a political debate as it is a scientific one, with those on the left tending to cause this.

As I have said, maybe 100 times now. I know we need to change, but it will happen in good time. Change before we are ready is just political “problem solving” and will hurt more than it helps.

The free market will innovate and bring on the next level, NOT politicians and definitely not Enviro bullies, who seem to think that your grandson and my future grandchildren should not have been born.

There are many people in society today who lose sleep at night worrying about how they can impose their will on everyone else, it always seems to be for the “greater cause”. It’s sick.

I’m done with this man. Next....
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Au contraire, of course climate change is settled science.

It is right wing conspiracy theorists and nut bars that deny the science. It is they that are dangerous, because they are placing everyone's life and livelihood at risk.

Of course Co2 is not a pollutant. But it does cause the greenhouse effect which is another thing entirely. It is physics not chemistry!

You are talking rubbish when you talk about the Hawaii volcano. They do not emit anything like the quantity of Co2 you are implying.

The science is here. The Forbes article show just how tiny the Co2 from eruptions is compared to that emitted by humans.

https://newrepublic.com/article/148542/kilaueas-impact-climate
https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...-co2-does-a-single-volcano-emit/#7f711dab5cbf

https://www.skepticalscience.com/volcanoes-and-global-warming.htm

The oil resource "development and be damned" lobby are the bullies, and people worldwide have recognised that. Divestment from fossil fuel investments is now a growing movement, with many Universities and endowments pulling their funds and Ireland has become the first country to start to pull all funds.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...lds-first-country-to-divest-from-fossil-fuels

"This is not the beginning of the end for oil, but it is perhaps the end of the beginning", to paraphrase my countryman
 
walleyes said:
Lol,, says the guy that when he unloads his boat at Andies boat launch with his old beater truck leaves a haze of smoke trailing out that old thing that clears the misquotes out of the whole camp site,, yup I've watched you my friend. Then fires up his oil injected 2 stroke outboard doesn't even respect the environment enough to run a cleaner burning 4 stroke and shoot if I remember right doesn't even run a trolling kicker trolls around with that oil injected 2 stroke.. Yup typical,, wants everyone else to sacrifice and points the finger at everyone but does nothing himself.

You know just saying lol.
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It’s one of my main gripes. These people seem to think that online virtue signaling means that everything they do in real life is null and void. They might sort their recycling into the right containers, and feel just awesome doing it, but that is about the extent of it.

I’ve figured the best way to describe enviro nutters and socialists is the dictionary version of hypocrisy.

They don’t even realize it.
 
walleyes said:
Lol,, says the guy that when he unloads his boat at Andies boat launch with his old beater truck leaves a haze of smoke trailing out that old thing that clears the misquotes out of the whole camp site,, yup I've watched you my friend. Then fires up his oil injected 2 stroke outboard doesn't even respect the environment enough to run a cleaner burning 4 stroke and shoot if I remember right doesn't even run a trolling kicker trolls around with that oil injected 2 stroke.. Yup typical,, wants everyone else to sacrifice and points the finger at everyone but does nothing himself.

You know just saying lol.
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Walleyes the backruptcy of your ideas and arguments are shown by this "ad hominem" attack on me personally.

You are sad and deluded if you think by attacking me you in any way change what the science says or what is a happening.
 
tidal shot said:
Ok, you live without using oil in your life for a week and see how you like it? Comments like this **** me off!
Our oil industry is the cleanest in the world, you don’t hear us complain how your logging industry has descemated river systems and prime spawning grounds? We don’t slam your lumber industry which clear cut vast areas of water shed
Canopy! The oil industry also supports thousands of BC residents with jobs and revenue!
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Tar sands are the dirtiest of all oil. Our (BC’s) logging industry has ruined river systems and prime spawning grounds your right hopefully we stop ruining more and stop clearcuts as well. Nothing clean about a tar sand tailings pond that I can see. How many abandoned oil wells are the Alberta taxpayer being stuck with? At least we are planting more trees here in B.C. but we too have a long way to go in cleaning up our act.
 
Floater said:
It’s one of my main gripes. These people seem to think that online virtue signaling means that everything they do in real life is null and void. They might sort their recycling into the right containers, and feel just awesome doing it, but that is about the extent of it.

I’ve figured the best way to describe enviro nutters and socialists is the dictionary version of hypocrisy.

They don’t even realize it.
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That's the thing about this whole climate issue you have to look at who's behind it,, it's the same people that are against the evil 1% the same people that march against the system. This is not a fight for the environment it's a fight against capitalism at its very core. They tried for years to kill the rich man with their unions and the government hand of the union the NDP in that part of the world and that failed. The NDP has now turned on the unions and they are trying to attack and kill the last bastion of capitalism left in the world and that's the oil and gas industry. They try any tactic, create any lies what ever it takes to stop the rich. They are bitter because people out there have things they don't their system failed them. They paid their union dues for years under the promise the union would look after them but it failed. They would have been far wealthier and better off to put that money in the system into some money earning stocks or mutuals and let it earn them 3 fold what it has. So now they attack the system they blame it for their short comings. The oil industry represents wealth and prosperity and independence and they can't stand it. Winston Churchill said it best and summed it up. "Socialism is the equal sharing of misery " its so plain and clear to those of us watching this take place it's a joke.

But I'm done,, fishing is just about over and this always happens on here it turns into a **** show,, talk to yah all next summer. It's hunting season time to switch modes.

Over and out.
 
 
walleyes said:
That's the thing about this whole climate issue you have to look at who's behind it,, it's the same people that are against the evil 1% the same people that march against the system. This is not a fight for the environment it's a fight against capitalism at its very core. They tried for years to kill the rich man with their unions and the government hand of the union the NDP in that part of the world and that failed. The NDP has now turned on the unions and they are trying to attack and kill the last bastion of capitalism left in the world and that's the oil and gas industry. They try any tactic, create any lies what ever it takes to stop the rich. They are bitter because people out there have things they don't their system failed them. They paid their union dues for years under the promise the union would look after them but it failed. They would have been far wealthier and better off to put that money in the system into some money earning stocks or mutuals and let it earn them 3 fold what it has. So now they attack the system they blame it for their short comings. The oil industry represents wealth and prosperity and independence and they can't stand it. Winston Churchill said it best and summed it up. "Socialism is the equal sharing of misery " its so plain and clear to those of us watching this take place it's a joke.

But I'm done,, fishing is just about over and this always happens on here it turns into a **** show,, talk to yah all next summer. It's hunting season time to switch modes.

Over and out.
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Just before you go, Walleyes, have you any documentation to back up your claims of the "fight against captialism at it's very core"? Or is that just your opinion?
On another note, here's another interesting opinion piece written a few years before the Cabinet decision on the Kinder Morgan project. https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/ecojustice/environmental-assessment-law_b_13326118.html.
It lays out clearly how the Trudeau Liberals inherited changes to the Environmental Assessement Act. Changes promulgated by the Harper Conservative majority. Still, even tho the Liberals railed against those changes in opposition, they embraced them as Cabinet when deciding on the NEB's Kinder Morgan report. Now the same Federal Court of Appeal has told them their Cabinet decision was flawed and they now find themselves in a hole. How they get out of it will prove interesting. I'll bet if Harper was still in power he would appeal. Not so sure about Trudeau's next step. Time will tell.
 
cuttlefish said:
Just before you go, Walleyes, have you any documentation to back up your claims of the "fight against captialism at it's very core"? Or is that just your opinion?
On another note, here's another interesting opinion piece written a few years before the Cabinet decision on the Kinder Morgan project. https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/ecojustice/environmental-assessment-law_b_13326118.html.
It lays out clearly how the Trudeau Liberals inherited changes to the Environmental Assessement Act. Changes promulgated by the Harper Conservative majority. Still, even tho the Liberals railed against those changes in opposition, they embraced them as Cabinet when deciding on the NEB's Kinder Morgan report. Now the same Federal Court of Appeal has told them their Cabinet decision was flawed and they now find themselves in a hole. How they get out of it will prove interesting. I'll bet if Harper was still in power he would appeal. Not so sure about Trudeau's next step. Time will tell.
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Don't need to ask, cuttle, walleyes got nothing but fear that his oil based little world will sink soon. His world has shrunk to a few climate change denying weirdos lead by Trump & Co. and the oil gurus trying to hang onto their 100 year old monopoly at all cost. Their days are counted and that's what makes them so aggressive. Have you seen how fast technology changes happen in this day and age? You will look back in 10 years or so and wonder how on earth were we so stupid to burn oil for power same as we look back now and say how did we not stream movies on our cellphones in 2004?
 
Oh guys...its not like we only have three drops left. Ain't like this what if will happen in my lifetime.

 
walleyes said:
That's the thing about this whole climate issue you have to look at who's behind it,, it's the same people that are against the evil 1% the same people that march against the system. This is not a fight for the environment it's a fight against capitalism at its very core. They tried for years to kill the rich man with their unions and the government hand of the union the NDP in that part of the world and that failed. The NDP has now turned on the unions and they are trying to attack and kill the last bastion of capitalism left in the world and that's the oil and gas industry. They try any tactic, create any lies what ever it takes to stop the rich. They are bitter because people out there have things they don't their system failed them. They paid their union dues for years under the promise the union would look after them but it failed. They would have been far wealthier and better off to put that money in the system into some money earning stocks or mutuals and let it earn them 3 fold what it has. So now they attack the system they blame it for their short comings. The oil industry represents wealth and prosperity and independence and they can't stand it. Winston Churchill said it best and summed it up. "Socialism is the equal sharing of misery " its so plain and clear to those of us watching this take place it's a joke.

But I'm done,, fishing is just about over and this always happens on here it turns into a **** show,, talk to yah all next summer. It's hunting season time to switch modes.

Over and out.
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This characterisation of the climate change movement as some kind of socialist conspiracy is all the right wing can fall back on. That and outright mis-information which is debunked by the science.

The right wing have no science, ignore the science out there, and even ignore the evidence right before their eyes of ever higher record temperatures all over the globe, especially up north, and including right here in Canada.

Perhaps some of them are so paranoid they believe the numbers being put out by Environment Canada, and the record fires in BC, and the heat deaths in Montreal are all "fake news" put out by socialist infiltrators. LOL

The fact that the science conclusions and the reports from other countries are all the same escapes them, and they have no other option than to try and attack the messengers and make the conspiracy even larger to encompass the entire scientific and academic community.

This Saturday (8th) hundreds and thousands of people all over the world are gathering in hundreds of cities to urge the communities of the world to act, and act now, to avert the worst of climate change. All the ignorant right wing will do is call them all socialist (and communists!) with some sort of sinister agenda! What a joke!!

https://peoplesclimate.org/rise/?source=tagged&referrer=group-nrdc
 
Global Warming Doomsday Fails To Arrive – Deadline Moved To 2035
apocalypse-climate-liberty-statue.jpg
Climate alarmists claim in a newly published study that the world will reach a “point of no return” if there is no dramatic reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2035. “We show that there are strict deadlines for taking climate action,” said Henk Dijkstra, a co-author of the study.

The news media is extensively reporting on the prediction, characterizing the study as ominous, yet the study serves as a refreshing reminder of how all previous predictions of climate deadlines and doomsdays failed to materialize.

In 1989 a United Nations senior environment official said entire nations could be wiped off the face of the earth if global warming was not reversed before the year 2000.

In 2006 Al Gore wrote that “We have at most ten years—not ten years to decide upon action, but ten years to alter fundamentally the trajectory of global greenhouse emissions.”

Also in 2006, James Hansen said the world had just 10 years to take “serious action” about greenhouse gas emissions or we would cross of “tipping point” of climate danger.

In 2009, Hansen reduced the time he said we had to address global warming, writing: “Barack Obama has only four years to save the world” from global warming.

In 2007, the head of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change warned that it would be “too late” to address global warming if action weren’t taken by 2012.

In 2009, Prince Charles said the world had just eight years left to end global warming or there would be “irretrievable climate and ecosystem collapse, and all that goes with it.”

In 2012, the president of the United Nations Foundation said the Obama second term would be “the last window of opportunity” to emplace dramatic carbon dioxide restrictions necessary to keep future warming “anywhere approaching” a two-degree Celsius tipping point.

At least this time the alarmists are giving themselves a little more time before they have to embarrassingly reset the doomsday climate clock.
 
Clearly setting arbitrary deadlines is pointless other than to try and use them to initiate action. The politicians who issue them know the dates are meaningless, and that humans do little without some sort of deadline for action. What is also clear is CO2 levels are at levels not seen for hundreds of thousands of years, and got to those levels in less than a century. The reality is the planets climate is changing, and we really have no idea what the final pace of change or degree will be. Some of those doomsday dates may well be true. We may already be beyond the point of no return of mitigating what we have set in motion. The fact those artificial dates mean little is just a smokescreen for climate deniers in articles like these that provide nothing of scientific use, as the actual science only points in one direction, and reputable scientists do not set arbitrary doomsday dates. Only politicians do.
 
Ive seen the way low carbon hippies live in Hawaii, Trust me no one on here is doing as much as they could to reduce their carbon foot print. As stormtrooper says what you believe and make happen is your reality and the technology exists today to make it happen.

Do you own an electric vehicle? Have you installed a battery bank and run an electric kicker? do you have solar panels on your roof? do you have solar power water heater? Do you have a water condenser for your clothes dryer at home (reduces GHG like evaporated water)? the list goes on...

Have you considered giving up carbon intensive hobbies like ocean fishing? and fish in river, from shore? do you or did you take low carbon transport methods to get to and from work? Looking back the options were their but did you make the harder choices and choose them?

This is not about left or right political views, its about people choosing the most economic choices and oil being a cheap alternative.

Economist have chose carbon taxes because they think that gradually increasing the price of carbon will force people to innovate and find cheaper alternatives. I don't disagree with them. However it did not take long for the USA to see an economic and competitive advantage against us and other countries that had carbon prices if they got rid of theirs.

ITs been scientifically proven that the earth should be in a cooling trend, but carbon output has put us in a heating trend. You really cant deny that science anymore.

Seems like people what the government to force them to change rather then taking advantage of the technology available to them today and make sacrifices to live and make less of a carbon footprint.
 
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