Concerned About My Boat Gas

This is dangerous advice. Two year old gas, even if the containers were mostly sealed, will have been exposed to oxygen. Over time the gasoline will oxidize into a liquid containing varnishes and gum like substances.

Who is going to be paying for your fuel system overhaul to clean out all the varnish? Certainly not members on the forum.

Don't read anything into this, as I am NOT recommending anyone use bad gas!

Gas will stay for YEARS, if stored in a “sealed container”, regardless of type of gas!

If stored in an open container, different story as it will start evaporating immediately. How long it will last, is strictly based on the environment stored.


Gas WILL stay for years in a "SEALED" container - I didn't say anything about"mostly sealed." It is either sealed or not sealed. If not SEALED, it WILL start degrading, IMMEDIATELY! And, I stated an open container it will start evaporating "immediately."

Ever wonder how long the gas you buy has been in storage; or think about how old that gas you buy really is? Two days, two weeks, or two months, maybe more - maybe less. However, regardless of age - I bet that ontainer was "completely full" and "SEALED"!

Clarified? If not, this should clearly clarify;

Does gasoline really go "bad" if you leave it unused for a period of time? Some people are convinced this is just another urban legend, and that people who worry about "old gas" and spend money on fuel stabilizer are wasting psychic energy as well as cash.

But in fact, gasoline can degrade over time. That can lead to a number of problems, ranging from hard starting, to rough running, to no starting at all.

Here's Why
Unlike crude oil, gasoline is a highly refined product brewed to a certain chemical composition with very specific characteristics. One characteristic of gas is volatility, a term used to describe how easily and under what conditions the gas vaporizes so it can be efficiently burned in your car's engine.

The most highly volatile components in gasoline also tend to evaporate over time. As they do, the remaining fuel's volatility and ability to combust properly degrades. The less volatile the fuel, the less effectively it burns in your engine. The result is diminished engine performance. Your engine may still start and run, but it probably won't run as well.

The good news is, once the old gas has been consumed and the tank is topped off with fresh fuel, the problem should cure itself. Evaporation of volatile compounds can be limited by making sure the gas cap is secured tightly. For the same reason, be sure all portable gas containers are sealed tightly as well.

A More Serious Problem: Oxidation
Hydrocarbons in the gas react with oxygen to produce new compounds that eventually change the chemical composition of the fuel. This leads to gum and varnish deposits in the fuel system.

These deposits and impurities can clog up gas lines and filters, as well the small orifices in a carburetor and the even smaller orifices in a fuel injector. Removing these deposits can be expensive and your vehicle may not run at all or run very poorly until they are removed.

Water Contamination
Condensation can form inside your gas tank and lines from heat cycling. Fuels such as E85, which have a high concentration of ethanol alcohol, may be even more susceptible to water contamination, as ethanol likes to draw moisture out of the surrounding air.

Water contamination can be a problem at gas stations with light traffic due to a slightly different kind of heat cycling. The underground storage tanks experience increases and decreases in temperature. This can cause moisture to form and contaminate the fuel. When you fill up at such a station, you're pumping in the water along with the gas. Such low-traffic stations may also have other contaminants in their underground storage tanks, such as rust. They are best avoided when possible.

Water, of course, does not work too well as a fuel in an internal combustion engine.

It will cause hard starting and rough running until it's purged from the system. It can also contribute to internal rusting of the gas lines and tank. The resultant scale and small particles can create a true nightmare, sometimes requiring the replacement of the gas lines and tank at considerable expense.

You can reduce the chances of water contamination by keeping your car's gas tank as close to full as possible, especially if the vehicle is going to be left idle for an extended period.

How Do You Identify Bad Gas?
One way is to eyeball it. Oxidized fuel often turns darker over time and may even smell sour. You can check stored gasoline by pouring some into a clear glass container and comparing it side-by-side with known fresh gasoline. If your old sample looks noticeably darker than the fresh gas, you have strong evidence the gas has gone bad.

How Long Does it Take for Gas to Go Bad?
That depends on a number of factors. For one, it's hard to know how old the gas you just bought actually is. It may be fresh from the refinery, or it may be a month old already by the time you top off your tank. Some gasoline is mixed with better or more oxidation inhibitors than others.

It's a good rule of thumb to avoid leaving gas in your tank or a storage container for more than a couple of months, if you can avoid it.
http://autos.aol.com/article/does-gas-go-bad/
 
All marine gas tanks are vented and therefore are exposed to air at some point. I could cut and paste a bunch of articles too but the fact is gas that is two years old is almost certainly degraded beyond the point of safe use. To suggest otherwise is irresponsible as someone may read this in the future and mess up their motor, end up stuck out on the water or with a big repair bill.
 
Thanks Seafever, I'm inclined to agree with your buddy at Raymarine regarding the oil breakdown. I appreciate everyones input. I sure wish there was a gas return depot in the Comox Valley. I have about 75 liters so maybe I'll try the mix it in with the truck gas thing and see how that goes. Just my luck, I'll be hauling the boat out to Kitty Coleman and my truck will break down.:);) eman

It looks like you can recycle gasoline up to 20L at http://www.cswm.ca/recycling.html. Maybe give them a call and ask if they will take all yours.
 
All marine gas tanks are vented and therefore are exposed to air at some point. I could cut and paste a bunch of articles too but the fact is gas that is two years old is almost certainly degraded beyond the point of safe use. To suggest otherwise is irresponsible as someone may read this in the future and mess up their motor, end up stuck out on the water or with a big repair bill.
Why are YOU trying to make a big deal of this? Irresponsible...? For advising someone that might have stored gas in a "sealed" portable container... and advising it might still be good? We are NOT talking about a boat vented fuel tank here... Read the orginal post and let me know what part of a 25 liter tank did you miss? That would be a 6.6 US gallon "portable" tank, and if YOU want "Google" your heart out as YOU will find all sorts of those 25 liter portable "SEALED" tanks out there! And, you bet, if "I" had a "25 liter portable tank and that gas was "sealed" for two years, you bet I would be checking it and guess what... "I" WOULD be burning it in whatever "I" wanted to burn it in!

BTW... If you want to "troll" would you mind trolling somewhere else, as "I" really don't like playing with any trolls! Have a great day!
 
Why are YOU trying to make a big deal of this? Irresponsible...? For advising someone that might have stored gas in a "sealed" portable container... and advising it might still be good? We are NOT talking about a boat vented fuel tank here... Read the orginal post and let me know what part of a 25 liter tank did you miss? That would be a 6.6 US gallon "portable" tank, and if YOU want "Google" your heart out as YOU will find all sorts of those 25 liter portable "SEALED" tanks out there! And, you bet, if "I" had a "25 liter portable tank and that gas was "sealed" for two years, you bet I would be checking it and guess what... "I" WOULD be burning it in whatever "I" wanted to burn it in!

BTW... If you want to "troll" would you mind trolling somewhere else, as "I" really don't like playing with any trolls! Have a great day!

I think I got my point across. You can't always be right charlie.

Cheers.
 
If the gas was stabilized upon purchase, it's probably safe. If not, like others have posted, additing conditioner later won't help gas that has already started to break down.

I don't go by time - simply smell the gas. You'll know if it when bad - it smells really sweet. That said, I generally always add stabilizer to my boat gas to be on the safe side, as I don't always know when I'm gonna use it next.

Put it in your truck. Many gas automobile engines run at lower compression than a comparable outboard or inboard (they also rev way lower) and are much more tolerant of lowered octane, degraded gas. Besides, if the truck coughs it up, you won't be stuck out in an unsafe marine enviroment!

Best of luck.
 
I think I got my point across. You can't always be right charlie.

Cheers.

I am sure glad you have appointed yourself as my watch dog! I need someone to keep me in line and stop me from posting all that 'irresponsible' information! We will all sleep better knowing you are watching me! :)

I am sorry, didn't realize you were a "petroleum engineer"? Since you are the expert here, could you clarify this "Over time the gasoline will oxidize into a liquid containing varnishes and gum like substances." Just how much time are you talking about there? Would that be days, months, or years? Maybe 5, 10, 15, or 20 years?

Before posting information concerning gasoline, you might want to actually contact a real petroleum engineer of knows? As if you do a more correct statement to your "oxidize into a liquid containing varnishes and like substances" would be, "The most volatile parts of the gasoline starts evaporating immediately when exposed to air, in any open container. Over a period of time "months" that will reduce the octane; however, the increasing "gumminess"(varnishes as you refer) even over a period of that two years being discussed isn't likely to cause issues, unless old gasoline is consistently and constantly burnt, even in outboard engines. You would also find, gasoline does NOT breakdown, at least over a humans lifetime. That gas purchased in the winter months is different than the summer months as the oil companies modify their formulations for a constant viscosity for the seasonal temperatures. They will also advise the biggest threat is NOT gas turning to "varnish" but happens to be "water"! When a tank is not full "and sealed" moisture in the air causes condensation resultingin in water at the bottom of the tank. Just remove the water. In the case of ethonal, the gasoline will become fully saturated, causing phase seperation. Phase seperation is easily identified and if gas has phase seperation is useless in any engine - and you might as well use it to start that bonfire!

Cheers, and keep up the good work in watching me, as some day I just might be wrong! :)
 
Ill come take it off your hands, I wont have any problem burning it in anything. It amazes me the different advice people give on here.. Anyway, Ill even give you an 8 pack of Bud? Im in Campbell River.
 
This is dangerous advice. Two year old gas, even if the containers were mostly sealed, will have been exposed to oxygen. Over time the gasoline will oxidize into a liquid containing varnishes and gum like substances.

Who is going to be paying for your fuel system overhaul to clean out all the varnish? Certainly not members on the forum.

That advice is out to lunch. Sounds like youve recently taken a pre- apprentice course. If it smells good, then it is good. If it were mine, Id probably mix it with fresh gas if I was to use it in my boat.
 
I am sure glad you have appointed yourself as my watch dog! I need someone to keep me in line and stop me from posting all that 'irresponsible' information! We will all sleep better knowing you are watching me! :)

I'm not your guardian; you can burn whatever fuel you'd like in your own motor. I'm simply trying to offer my opinion based upon what I have learned over the years. This thread may come up in a google search result in the future and I'd hope that those future readers have the benefit of learning the possible consequences of burning old fuel and can make an informed decision.


I am sorry, didn't realize you were a "petroleum engineer"? Since you are the expert here, could you clarify this "Over time the gasoline will oxidize into a liquid containing varnishes and gum like substances." Just how much time are you talking about there? Would that be days, months, or years? Maybe 5, 10, 15, or 20 years?

No I am not, are you? As for the products of oxidizing gasoline, they are defined as peroxides and gum. Both soluble and insoluble substances that can cause engine deposits and clog fuel passages respectively. The time period is dependent upon environmental factors such as exposure to oxygen, temperature and vapor pressure.

Major fuel companies such as Chevron and Shell do not recommend using fuel that is more than one year old when it has been stored in an air tight container out of direct sunlight. (Best case scenario for storage)

Before posting information concerning gasoline, you might want to actually contact a real petroleum engineer of knows? As if you do a more correct statement to your "oxidize into a liquid containing varnishes and like substances" would be, "The most volatile parts of the gasoline starts evaporating immediately when exposed to air, in any open container. Over a period of time "months" that will reduce the octane; however, the increasing "gumminess"(varnishes as you refer) even over a period of that two years being discussed isn't likely to cause issues, unless old gasoline is consistently and constantly burnt, even in outboard engines. You would also find, gasoline does NOT breakdown, at least over a humans lifetime. That gas purchased in the winter months is different than the summer months as the oil companies modify their formulations for a constant viscosity for the seasonal temperatures. They will also advise the biggest threat is NOT gas turning to "varnish" but happens to be "water"! When a tank is not full "and sealed" moisture in the air causes condensation resultingin in water at the bottom of the tank. Just remove the water. In the case of ethonal, the gasoline will become fully saturated, causing phase seperation. Phase seperation is easily identified and if gas has phase seperation is useless in any engine - and you might as well use it to start that bonfire!

Cheers, and keep up the good work in watching me, as some day I just might be wrong! :)

I agree that water content and phase separation is the biggest threat with storing today's ethanol blended fuels. That doesn't mean that the degradation by oxidation is not relevant.

I've seen first hand the varnish and gum like substances that clog fuel filters and carburetor jets from using old fuel. The dangers of having this happen while running are great. The engine may fail to start while out on the water causing danger to life. The fuel in 2-strokes carries the lubrication as well. The engine may fail at speed when the fuel supply is restricted on a two stroke engine; causing a lean condition and powerhead failure. Again, potentially causing an expensive repair bill and/or life threatening situation.

So you see, it's not about you being right. It's about providing the best possible information to prospective readers of this forum and allowing them to weigh the consequence of using that 100 bucks worth of 2 year old gas or disposing of it properly and making the safer choice.

And if you do choose to run old gas and end up stranded out there feel free to wave me down. I would still gladly offer assistance in getting you back to port in a safe manner.

Cheers!
 
Charlie, as long as I have been on this site I realized your information is solid and well based on fact that being said there will always be challenges and you will always have the right answer. I know who gives valued info on this site and you are one of them. I am one of those who do not always give the right info and stand to be corrected once and a while but I do learn from my mistakes.

I am sure glad you have appointed yourself as my watch dog! I need someone to keep me in line and stop me from posting all that 'irresponsible' information! We will all sleep better knowing you are watching me! :)

I am sorry, didn't realize you were a "petroleum engineer"? Since you are the expert here, could you clarify this "Over time the gasoline will oxidize into a liquid containing varnishes and gum like substances." Just how much time are you talking about there? Would that be days, months, or years? Maybe 5, 10, 15, or 20 years?

Before posting information concerning gasoline, you might want to actually contact a real petroleum engineer of knows? As if you do a more correct statement to your "oxidize into a liquid containing varnishes and like substances" would be, "The most volatile parts of the gasoline starts evaporating immediately when exposed to air, in any open container. Over a period of time "months" that will reduce the octane; however, the increasing "gumminess"(varnishes as you refer) even over a period of that two years being discussed isn't likely to cause issues, unless old gasoline is consistently and constantly burnt, even in outboard engines. You would also find, gasoline does NOT breakdown, at least over a humans lifetime. That gas purchased in the winter months is different than the summer months as the oil companies modify their formulations for a constant viscosity for the seasonal temperatures. They will also advise the biggest threat is NOT gas turning to "varnish" but happens to be "water"! When a tank is not full "and sealed" moisture in the air causes condensation resultingin in water at the bottom of the tank. Just remove the water. In the case of ethonal, the gasoline will become fully saturated, causing phase seperation. Phase seperation is easily identified and if gas has phase seperation is useless in any engine - and you might as well use it to start that bonfire!

Cheers, and keep up the good work in watching me, as some day I just might be wrong! :)
 
I have not followed the entire thread here. But, god help us if they introduce ethanol into marine gas. They have done that in USA with disasterous results. Supposed to max out around 10% but some tests out at 20%. Once it separates you must drain & replace. It will not re-mix. If you burn it in separated state, you may have to replace your engine. Of course, cooler the climate, the faster it breaks down. Moral in Canada is we cannot allow gas companies to add this.
 
Gas is gas if it still smells good and not like a skunk id use it hell id even take it!!!! at the price it is F me man its says its going to go close to 150 to 170 a litre by summer good time :)
 
I have heard that 'marked' purple gas degrades more quickly than regular gas because of the dyes - comments anyone?
 
From what i saw 1 time they put about a tablespoon of that dye in a 45 gallon drum dont know if that is really going to hurt it at all im thinking no... but charlie can straight me out LOL LOL
 
I work at a refinery. Use it to start fires. I asked a few guys around here, including an engineer and not 1 single person would put it in their car or boat. Is it worth risking damage to your engine over a few $$? Could potentially cause problems that will cost way more to fix than what the gas is worth.
 
I could have one hell of a fire with 75 ltrs of boat gas.:D After all of the info received from many informed sources, I have decided to just drink it all myself.;) eman
 
All marine gas tanks are vented and therefore are exposed to air at some point. I could cut and paste a bunch of articles too but the fact is gas that is two years old is almost certainly degraded beyond the point of safe use. To suggest otherwise is irresponsible as someone may read this in the future and mess up their motor, end up stuck out on the water or with a big repair bill.

I will put my 2 cents in here, I know im allready not liked on this forum.... (I dont have 1000+ posts, so im just an butt clown)
But trendsetter is right on the money here!
I have worked as a marine technician and small engine machanic, I loved all the guy who liked to use "old" fuel in their machines... it all equaled to money in my pocket!

any fuel over a year old should be used as fire starter!
 
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