April 1 Fishing Regs-sell your Boats!!

[eroyd]

Catch and release is ********.. you either "play" a fish for no reason other than your own pleasure, releasing it incredibly tired and prone to predation or the hook causes some sort of damage that will render it terminal anyway.. I probably killed 5 fish last year for every one I was allowed to keep.

Maybe for you. Single barbless hook. Don't play a fish like a sissy. Bring it to the side of the boat and pop the hook out with the gaff. Fish doesn't have to be touched or leave the water. Yes, some mortality, but far less than if it get tapped on the head.

Just like other fisheries, "non retention" is still an opportunity to enjoy the resource. Closed means the resource can't hand any mortality. You choose. As the title of thread says, "sell your boats."

 

[Saxe Point]

That's too bad, but if you did it properly releasing the fish in the water
with a gaff, 99% swim away.
Might as well get used to it, as Eroyd pointed out most sport fishing in the
rest of the world has already gone C&R.

That’s my experience as well.

 

[Breakin"even]

Regardless of what happens with our access to fish. I believe that we will be buying fishing licences for the privlege of fishing on/in their waters, and paying user fees to hunt or camp on their territories in the foreseeable future.

I agree that this is in our future, I for one would be willing to pay a small fee
for access. Having FN on our side would be helpfull. I'm sure we would be out
catching and retaining hatchery Chinook today.

 

[Saxe Point]

I've been doing some research on this and have consulted a couple of constitutional lawyers. In addition to the s. 35 rights many treaties exist that are in effect a contractual obligation that the government of Canada must consider. Resource rights under the
are restricted to non renewable resources (minerals, oil and gas etc) and forestry. There is nothing that gives citizens rights to natural resources and control over fisheries (oceans) is specifically given to the federal government. (and have been since 1867)
There is some question whether the actual fish (salmon) are a provincial resource vs a federal one. ( they are created on provincial land ) If there was a friendly provincial government there may be things a province could do to guarantee the rights to access resources (fish) through legislation. This would be a major source of conflict with the federal government and aboriginals and is unlikely to happen.

It is clear to me that the sports industry needs friends, and needs to rethink the strategy regarding requests to government. Partnership with aboriginal groups that could result making joint submissions to DFO and a broad range of MP's and Cabinet Ministers may be a path to success. I know there are many here that don't want to hear that, but this is the current reality of the situation. I acknowledge that there are some groups that can't be worked with, but there are undoubtedly some that would be amenable. I also know that this already occurs in some places in the province (somas sockeye)

If government is confident that a majority of stakeholders support decisions it's makes it easy to make proper and fair regulations.

Science rarely is the sole or most important factor government considers when decisions are made. Although logical based solely on the health of the resource, other groups can come up with various "scientific" reasons why the science they oppose is wrong. There needs to be more than one argument.

All of these efforts are multi year initiatives that will take time, effort and money. I am willing to donate my time and resources and admittedly limited knowledge but I really don't know where to start. I am sure there are many others like me. While there are many well intentioned groups, the larger and more coherent the organization larger voice it will have with government.

Section 35 of the Charter constitutionalizes the treaty rights. Subsection (1) states: ”The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed.”

But you are heading in the right direction by recognizing that the idea is to persuade the government to expand the privilege to access the resource. The courts will not make policy choices that are the responsibility of governments.

 

[Sea lyin’]

People have to adapt to C & R fishing if they actually enjoy fishing for fishing. That's the way it has been in many other successful fisheries for a long time. Such like steelhead locally. If killing fish is your primary motivation for taking your boat out, please sell it now.

What do you say to guides that rely on customers who pay to actually catch a fish and keep it? Who’s going to pay $1000 plus travel costs to the coast/island for a chance to catch a single 15lb spring? Guys like you better be dragging bare lines through the water as you enjoy the “experience”. If your trying for fish your kind of coming across as a hypocrite.

 

[Connor D]

That's too bad, but if you did it properly releasing the fish in the water
with a gaff, 99% swim away.
Might as well get used to it, as Eroyd pointed out most sport fishing in the
rest of the world has already gone C&R.

I agree but when the size is close to the slot limit, you have to take out and measure, and alot get foul hooked, had a ton with the plug pretty much in their stomach. And.. your still releasing and exhausted animal into a gauntlet of prey.

 

[Saxe Point]

I agree but when the size is close to the slot limit, you have to take out and measure, and alot get foul hooked. And.. your still releasing and exhausted animal into a gauntlet of prey.

I’ve said this before, but don’t take a fish out of the water to measure. If it’s close, let it go. Mark a boat hook or harpoon with tape so you can quickly tell if it’s big or small enough. Use that to make an assessment with the fish in the water beside the boat. But err on the side of letting go if you can’t be sure. No one needs to keep a fish that badly that they can’t do it this way.

 

[Connor D]

No one needs to keep a fish that badly that they can’t do it this way.

I'm starving!

 

[spring fever]

I'm starving!

Need it for food and ceremonial ? LOL

 

[wildmanyeah]

lol it does Not matter how good you are

according to the government there is a 20% C&R mortality. Ever 5th fish is a dead fish.

If it C&R was wildly adopted it would get shut down. There reasoning behind keeping MSF closed was that it was gonna put to much pressure on wild stocks. These measures are to make sure boats stay off the water period.

 

[Saxe Point]

What do you say to guides that rely on customers who pay to actually catch a fish and keep it? Guys like you better be dragging bare lines through the water as you enjoy the “experience”. If your trying for fish your kinds of coming across as a hypocrite.

Not everyone wants (and no one needs) to keep a fish. Marketing the experience of fishing rather than eating the outcome is the secret. There are steelhead lodges and guides that have been making a living for many decades in precisely this way. But for some reason steelhead anglers would never even consider keeping a steelhead, while many ocean fishers would never consider fishing unless they can keep a salmon. When the salmon become as rare as the the steelhead, perhaps this mindset will change.

 

[pescador]

If someone sets up a GoFundMe page to support a legal challenge against the DFO......I’ll throw in the first $250. There would need to be a clear strategy using science and arguments that made sense to non-fishers and the courts. Keep it simple, get press coverage and cause some disruption/attention even if it doesn’t succeed.

 

[ziggy]

I agree many groups don't want anyone fishing except for themselves but there are many groups and many diverging interests. A FN and sport-fishing alliance would be a powerful lobby. I don't even know if it's possible but it may be worth a try. What is currently going on isn't working, but there are models in BC that do work.

I could see where FN would support Sport Fishing if they were the Lodge Owners and Guides and it provided them income. But that would be the only part they would support and would see anything other than that ie a guy fishing on his own as competition and as such not support basic public fishing that could hurt their business. It’s a nice idea but from a FN perspective what’s in it for them? Public and Commercial interests compete with theirs.

 

[Breakin"even]

If someone sets up a GoFundMe page to support a legal challenge against the DFO......I’ll throw in the first $250

Thats a great idea.

 

[SpringFever552]

If someone sets up a GoFundMe page to support a legal challenge against the DFO......I’ll throw in the first $250. There would need to be a clear strategy using science and arguments that made sense to non-fishers and the courts. Keep it simple, get press coverage and cause some disruption/attention even if it doesn’t succeed.

X2

 

[wildmanyeah]

Not everyone wants (and no one needs) to keep a fish. Marketing the experience of fishing rather than eating the outcome is the secret. There are steelhead lodges and guides that have been making a living for many decades in precisely this way. But for some reason steelhead anglers would never even consider keeping a steelhead, while many ocean fishers would never consider fishing unless they can keep a salmon. When the salmon become as rare as the the steelhead, perhaps this mindset will change.

i guess if I want to eat salmon I should just buy and support fish farms?

 

[Saxe Point]

i guess if I want to eat salmon I should just buy and support fish farms?

Only the land based ones!

 

[Sea lyin’]

Not everyone wants (and no one needs) to keep a fish. Marketing the experience of fishing rather than eating the outcome is the secret. There are steelhead lodges and guides that have been making a living for many decades in precisely this way. But for some reason steelhead anglers would never even consider keeping a steelhead, while many ocean fishers would never consider fishing unless they can keep a salmon. When the salmon become as rare as the the steelhead, perhaps this mindset will change.

That may be. But there’s a larger percentage of tourists that save all year to come and catch and keep their fish than dont. They come and spend their tourist dollars in small community’s and hire guided trips to catch and retain the larger springs. I know this because I was one until I started hauling my own boat down. What do you say to those guides who will be hurt by this latest DFO move. And I mean this year, not 2,3 or 5 years while they try to change their entire market strategy? This is about more than your beliefs on how people should enjoy their time on the water, this is affecting hundreds if not thousands of people’s incomes. So seriously, what do you say to them?

 

[Sea lyin’]

If someone sets up a GoFundMe page to support a legal challenge against the DFO......I’ll throw in the first $250. There would need to be a clear strategy using science and arguments that made sense to non-fishers and the courts. Keep it simple, get press coverage and cause some disruption/attention even if it doesn’t succeed.

I’m in too. I keep hearing the term “cultural appropriation” thrown about. Seems like cultural appropriation would be using white mans tools to fish for traditional food and ceremonial reasons. Maybe there’s an angle there we can exploit.

 

[Saxe Point]

That may be. But there’s a larger percentage of tourists that save all year to come and catch and keep their fish than dont. They come and spend their tourist dollars in small community’s and hire guided trips to catch and retain the larger springs. I know this because I was one until I started hauling my own boat down. What do you say to those guides who will be hurt by this latest DFO move. And I mean this year, not 2,3 or 5 years while they try to change their entire market strategy? This is about more than your beliefs on how people should enjoy their time on the water, this is affecting hundreds if not thousands of people’s incomes. So seriously, what do you say to them?

You didn’t understand my post. It was not about my beliefs about how people should enjoy their time on the water. It was pointing out that because of the way some people enjoy their time on the water, less fish to keep means less available opportunities for those who provide the that kind of experience. Collapse of the east coast cod fishery affected many lives and if the salmon’s future heads in the same direction, it will get worse.