Trailer rebuild

[dmurph]

Hi fellas, could use some advice regarding my trailer rebuild. Going to swap out the surge drum brakes which were all completely messed on my 2007 Karavan tandem. I will also be repłacing the tires which flat spotted and blew from the brake seize up doh. I am going to switch to hydraulic disk. I was first thinking electric over hydraulic but for simplicity and to keep the budget down decided not to. I am doing all the work myself and wanted to keep it somewhat simple, plus I don't tow that often and when I do my trailer tounge often ends up in the water as I use vanier launch. I get a pretty good deal on parts from lordco so I did the best I could through them. I orderd Titan 12 inch 6 bolt 5-6k lbs premium disk kits which have rotors, calipers, pads caliper bracket and the berrings. Lordco could get the titan actuator or brake line kit. I orderd a 6600 lbs actuator and tandem brake line kit from tie down via western marine. Everything in with tax I am 1200 will this system work and do you guys think it's a good deal. I am new to trailer work, I have the whole thing torn apart and on blocks on my driveway, trying to get it back before it gets covered in snow. My concern is do the rotors fit the axel the same way as the drums ? My axel has grease nipple built into the end of it, and I assume the systems are all compatible. Also my boat is 5200 lbs dry weight so 6600lbs actuator is a little concerning but that us best I could find locally. Any feed back would be great

 

[AlK]

I think the reg's say if the loaded trailer is 6000 lbs or more the trailer is required to have electric over hydraulic brakes or electric. Obviously there could also be insurance requirements. Without knowing what is included in the 5200 lbs for the boat plus approx 1000 lbs for the trailer you may well be in excess of 6000 lbs. I would check the total combined weight to make sure that you are legal on the road.

 

[dmurph]

Thanks for the response, I know I am pretty close to needing the electric over but I am going to stick with the surge. I don't trailer very often, that being said it only takes once. I definitely need to get a 8000 lbs actuator.

 

[seadawg]

Surge brakes are permitted up to 2,800kgs. That's just under 6200 pounds. After that, electric over hydraulic are required. If you go over weight with surge brakes, it may be unlikely you'll be caught and may be unlikely it will cause you a problem but, (always a but) if you get into an accident that might not even be your fault, you could be looking at a big problem with your insurance claim. Key is the weight obviously.

I have a Karavan tandem too, with surge and drums I'm sick and tired of, and will be going the disk route as you are. I know for sure though I'll be over with almost 6,000 pounds dry so to be worry free, I'll go with the electric / over. Looking forward to other comments on the install. I've got that sure lube system with the grease nipple as well and have been wondering how that will work out. I don't really want to go away from that.

 

[dmurph]

My brakes haven't worked since I first bought this set up. I tow with a 08 f350 diesel and have never felt the trailer pushing all that much. Don't tow a lot but have made a trip to pacific gateway in renfrew. That's quite the road in. The thought crossed my mind to just strip all the brakes off and be hassle free, but I know that would be very irresponsible. I am on a tight budget for something I use a couple times a year as I Moore my boat, I feel I will be pretty good with the electric disk, which is way better than the stock set up it came with. I feel the electric over has an element that become a problem also. It's all kind of new to me. I know I wish we got the product and pricing that the us gets. Right now with exchange and shipping the us is no better an option and canada is expensive if you can even find what you want. I think iam good with my end kit from Titan brake line kit through tie down and I'll have to order a 8000lbs actuator out of the us. I hope that sure lube system works with what I orderd, that and the caliper bracket is a concern. Have used my buffer with a wire brush attachment to clean up all the leafs and other parts. I ll try to post some photos if this storm ever passes. A good learning process so far. Costco seems to have best pricing on the tires

 

[Killer B's]

Not sure if your on the Island or mainland but I put all new brakes and drums on my tandem trailer in April for about $650. Talk to Bob at Hub City Spring in Nanaimo. He has every part you will ever need.

 

[Gray Escape]

Kodiak disc brake parts are very inexpensive on line.
Bot mine from www.trailerpartsdepot.com
All the best quality parts and helpful technical advise.
Be sure to get good grease too, the Lubrimatic marine grease with the Calcium Sulfonate additive is awesome stuff, makes all the difference.

 

[Tiki35]

Kodiak disc brake parts are very inexpensive on line.
Bot mine from www.trailerpartsdepot.com
All the best quality parts and helpful technical advise.
Be sure to get good grease too, the Lubrimatic marine grease with the Calcium Sulfonate additive is awesome stuff, makes all the difference.

Trailerpartsdepot's shipping prices to Canada also look good.
How did you make out once they arrived with respect to duty, taxes, and brokerage fees from them?

 

[Califbill]

Back to the install. My last trailer I converted to Kodiak Disks. The caliper mounting plates bolt to the same place the drum brake backing plates bolt up to. Same holes. Make sure you have a disk brake master cylinder in the coupler. There is a residual pressure valve that needs to be removed or punctured in drum brake master cylinder. I would recommend getting hold of a pressure bleeder to purge the brakes after install. I bought a motivepower.com brake bleeder with a trailer adapter from a local speed shop. Was about $60 if I remember Share it with a buddy. Great device. Had a connector leak, and made repair much simpler. Amazon carries them in the US.
http://www.motiveproducts.com

 

[dmurph]

Picked up the disk brake end kit today. All looks good didn't realize they don't come with new hex bolts, or new axel nut and washers. Good thing I saved all the old gear, I guess that stuff is specific to the axel itself. Lordco got me a good price on a 8600lbs Demco disk actuato, so once that comes in I should be good to go. Does anyone have experience with the Titan caliper bracket, my axel plate where the bracket mounts has give holes, I can only get four to match up to the bracket, but I assume that is fine. Also the caliper bracket lines up and sits at an angle, meaning caliper will not sit at say 12 o clock

 

[Hookin'up]

Dave,
I have a disc actuator you can have, I pulled it from mine to install the EOH.
Its a dexter DA-91 Complete coupler assy for 2-5/16 ball 20,000lb with new reverse lockout selenoid,
I'll pm you my #
Tim

 

[Hookin'up]

Dave,
follow this for bleeding the master
http://demco-products.com/assets/users/documents/BH20021.pdf

 

[dmurph]

Very generous of you Tim, thanks. What a great group of humans on this forum lol. All coming together now, gets easier every step of the way. Anybody thinking to upgrade their trailsers themselves but in sure, go for it.

 

[Gray Escape]

Trailerpartsdepot's shipping prices to Canada also look good.
How did you make out once they arrived with respect to duty, taxes, and brokerage fees from them?

I had them ship to a mailbox address in Blaine, real cheap frt inside USA.
No brokerage, just paid PST/HST.
Easy to do, I have used Pacific Mail and Parcel at the Pacific border crossing the last few years.
Great service, I would reccommend them.

 

[dmurph]

Made some progress on the rebuild, I now have the bearings packed in the disks and on the trailer with buddy bearings. I would recommend using a bearing packer, I used the palm of my hand, which was messy and leaves me wondering if they were packed good enough. I have ez lube spindles and added grease to the nipple before installing the bearing buddy, i wanted to see if the cavity in the hub would fill with grease. It did not force grease forward from the inner bearing towards the front of the hub and outer bearing. it actually forced grease out through the inner seal I had the seal in nice and tight, so that the rubber was connecting with the bearing itself, and actually had the use a bit of force to set the seal. so i know it was in the right place. I am wondering if the seal is damaged now from grease being forced through it. From what I can tell it still looks fine. just wondering if they are designed to let some out if forced. I had read somewhere not to use bearing buddies with the ez lube, my they fit on no problem. wondering how much grade to put into them.

 

[rjs]

to keep ur hands clean buy 1 of these ! they work pretty good http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/lisle-universal-bearing-packer/A-p2928042e

 

[seadawg]

I don’t think your seal should be tight against the bearing. There is a hole towards the back, at the side of the sure lube spindle, where grease should expel from, when you pump it into the grease nipple. The seal should ride outside that hole, allowing grease to flow inside toward the bearings when pumped. There should be a gap between the seal and the bearing allowing the grease to flow. If grease was forced out the back side, I would guess the seal is misplaced, either on the wrong side of the hole or directly on top.

You should be able to pump grease and fill the cavity although it might be easier to pre fill the cavity before mounting the hub, because the diameter of that hole is smaller than that of the grease gun. Just try and avoid creating an air pocket. Try a test pump before installing to be sure the hole isn't plugged.

Once the hub is on, you should be able to pump grease into the fitting, forcing grease out the front of the outside bearing. You may notice air pockets being forced out at this point too. That should pack the cavity pretty well. You can also pump as much grease as you want at any point mid season as well. Excess grease will flow out the front of the bearing and not over pressurize grease inside the hub.

I’ve never used bearing buddies but my understanding of them is that you need to be careful when pumping grease, not to over pump, or it will create too much pressure inside the cavity, potentially, blowing out the rear seal. With your system, you shouldn’t need to worry about that. That said, bearing buddies plus sure lube doesn’t make sense if the sure lube is working properly.

Hope that makes sense and is helpful.

Try you tube for packing bearings by hand. There should be something there that will enable you to hand pack your bearings with confidence. It’s the best way IMO.

 

[Earl Ledge]

Just jumping onto this thread, I have a tandem axel trailer (EZ loader for a 22 foot boat) and am going the new brakes route here just after Christmas. Right now my trailer is in my neighbours garage, pulled apart and waiting. The old surge drum system is pretty hooped and I am intending to order discs and maybe Electric over Hydraulic instead of surge activation. I really want good brakes on this unit as my truck needs all the help it can get...
Anyway, I have called Etrailer three or four times so far. Each time I get someone different, who then asks for additional, different information. I called, (in my ignorance), to get direction on what I needed to provide to them to order the right parts. The first clerk asked for the tire sizes and number of wheel bolts, only. The next one wanted the numbers off the bearings and seals. When I called back with all that, the next one didn't want the bearing info, they wanted the wheel bolt pattern diameter in addition to the bolt count, and directed me to a part of their website where you can measure bolt-to-bolt and calculate the circumference in a table...(like 2 5/8" equals a 4.5 " diameter) so eventually, with that info, I did get pointed to a quotation and then when I said I wanted to know about electric-over-hydraulic, she said that they do not recommend it in a salt water application. So now I have three contacts with three different requests for information, and a no-no on electric over Hydraulic. I did get to where I got sent a 'web page' quote of around $813 for SS callipers, Dacromet coated rotors, lines, and bearings, (no coupler this quote) but for shipping they want $275. ( all USD) I guess I could ship to Blaine ( they do ship free in USA), but I am on the island and it would suck up about $200 and a whole day to run over there and get the parts, so it takes the fun out of it. So first, I need to hear that Electric over hydraulic is not a problem for my ocean use and is in fact the best for braking ( as it suggests on their site) ( It seems to make sense if I keep the electric actuator out of the chuck).
Secondly, in general I have the time and tools and help, to put the pieces together but am a little stuck on the best deal and in a major way I don't want to omit some part or order the wrong ones at the outset. So any help would be very welcome, and if a phone call would be offered with someone who has gone through this, well I have a Canada -wide cell plan and I would love to talk. Finally I think I have the EZ lube system ( trailer is about 20 year old EXZ loader) but just to be sure, this is where the grease goes in the nipple (Zerk they call it on youtube!) from the outer side and flows through to come out a little hole on the top of the axel on the inside?
Thanks for reading, Best of the season, and good boating.
TR

 

[Striker]

Hi

I just placed my order for the exactly the same parts. I went with the electric over hydraulic and cant see any reason they would not be good in the salt water environment. The electric parts are only on the tongue and not subject to getting wet, at least not on my trailer. I'm shipping to Blaine so got the free shipping.

Good luck

Here is my parts list:

Code Item Quantity Price/Ea. Total
K2HR526DS
rate it Kodiak Disc Brake Kit - 12" Hub/Rotor - 6 on 5-1/2 - Dacromet and Stainless - 6,000 lbs 2 $431.95 $863.90
BK3-100
rate it Bearing Kit, 15123/ 25580 Bearings, 10-36 Seal 4 $17.90 $71.60
X1023R
rate it Trailer Wheel Lug Nut - 1/2"(Each) 24 $0.60 $14.40
F001520
rate it Grease Cap - 2.446" Outer Diameter - 1-5/16" Tall - Drive In 4 $1.95 $7.80
K71-651
rate it Dexter Electric Over Hydraulic Brake Actuator (1,600 psi) 1 $724.95 $724.95
50-85-315
rate it Pro Series Push to Test Breakaway Kit with Premium Integrated Charger 1 $34.95 $34.95
Shipping: Free Shipping 175.57 less Discount ($175.57): $0.00
Sales Tax: $0.00
Total: $1,717.60

Just jumping onto this thread, I have a tandem axel trailer (EZ loader for a 22 foot boat) and am going the new brakes route here just after Christmas. Right now my trailer is in my neighbours garage, pulled apart and waiting. The old surge drum system is pretty hooped and I am intending to order discs and maybe Electric over Hydraulic instead of surge activation. I really want good brakes on this unit as my truck needs all the help it can get...
Anyway, I have called Etrailer three or four times so far. Each time I get someone different, who then asks for additional, different information. I called, (in my ignorance), to get direction on what I needed to provide to them to order the right parts. The first clerk asked for the tire sizes and number of wheel bolts, only. The next one wanted the numbers off the bearings and seals. When I called back with all that, the next one didn't want the bearing info, they wanted the wheel bolt pattern diameter in addition to the bolt count, and directed me to a part of their website where you can measure bolt-to-bolt and calculate the circumference in a table...(like 2 5/8" equals a 4.5 " diameter) so eventually, with that info, I did get pointed to a quotation and then when I said I wanted to know about electric-over-hydraulic, she said that they do not recommend it in a salt water application. So now I have three contacts with three different requests for information, and a no-no on electric over Hydraulic. I did get to where I got sent a 'web page' quote of around $813 for SS callipers, Dacromet coated rotors, lines, and bearings, (no coupler this quote) but for shipping they want $275. ( all USD) I guess I could ship to Blaine ( they do ship free in USA), but I am on the island and it would suck up about $200 and a whole day to run over there and get the parts, so it takes the fun out of it. So first, I need to hear that Electric over hydraulic is not a problem for my ocean use and is in fact the best for braking ( as it suggests on their site) ( It seems to make sense if I keep the electric actuator out of the chuck).
Secondly, in general I have the time and tools and help, to put the pieces together but am a little stuck on the best deal and in a major way I don't want to omit some part or order the wrong ones at the outset. So any help would be very welcome, and if a phone call would be offered with someone who has gone through this, well I have a Canada -wide cell plan and I would love to talk. Finally I think I have the EZ lube system ( trailer is about 20 year old EXZ loader) but just to be sure, this is where the grease goes in the nipple (Zerk they call it on youtube!) from the outer side and flows through to come out a little hole on the top of the axel on the inside?
Thanks for reading, Best of the season, and good boating.
TR

 

[SeaWolf]

Pretty good link here about Electric over Hydraulic.
http://www.boatus.com/magazine/trailering/2013/february/electric-over-hydraulic-brakes.asp

Also some other good sources for parts out of the US include:
http://www.pacifictrailers.com/electric-over-hydraulic-trailer-brake-actuators/
http://www.easternmarine.com/Electric-Hydraulic-Brake-Actuators/

So following all that information it seems that EOH is a common set up for Boat Trailers, as well several members on here have posted about their setups in Saltwater applications over the years.

Most Boat Trailers use a fairly standard Spindle size, it is the hub itself that differs in the outer diameter. If you are changing hubs, you only need be concerned it fits your spindle. If everything is standard boat trailer (no car parts), then I think you just have to find the right wheel size and bolt pattern.

You could try these guys out of Victoria to get you parts there as they specialize in that sort of thing. http://www.seawings.ca/
I too live on the Island and timed my purchase to correspond with a trip to the Mainalnd, if you got a couple of months and are planning on heading over then it makes sense. I also find Pt Roberts more convenient than Blaine, but be warned on larger items they go to Pr Roberts auto freight in Seattle and looked delivered in tracking, but Pt Roberts Autofreight only goes to Pt Roberts like twice a week so make sure your shipping point notifies you they have received the parts. I found out the hard way and spent another night in Vancouver once.

I converted by single axle to Disks with a hydraulic actuator a few years ago and found getting the parts out of the US to be about 1/2 the price. Not too many places here selling Disk Brake conversions.

Salt Water and brakes do not mix well and we all want a bomb proof system, but when you price things out your may find that a Kodiak Dacromet system with Stainless backed pads give you the best bang for your buck.

Good luck.