Winter supply of Chinook salmon critical to survival of orcas,

[wildmanyeah]

And what is stopping the biomass in that area from increasing since the last fishery?

Studies have shown that it may never increase if other baitfish have moved it. After an oil spill in Alaska a population of herring was wiped out and never recovered, they contributed to other bait fish moving into the area and basically preventing the herring from rebuilding.

The entire commercial fleet is allocated 10,000 tons combined. That's the quota for roe herring in the straight of georgia. There is right now as we speak around 140 tons in the straight of Georgia. That's just in one area of bc

So when the boys get their quota, they will have taken less than 10 percent. There is no way that taking 10 percent of a fishery would cause a collapse. Not a chance.

yes its a very conservative amount this year the 20% was based on the pre season forecast and it looks like they are sounding lots this year so the harvest is going to be quit modest and way under the 20%.

 

[ericl]

awesome info agentaqua the last one is a must read. From their conclusions in speaking to the SRKW population:

"Our results suggest that at least in recent years competition with other marine mammals is a more important factor limiting the growth of this endangered population than competition with human fisheries."

Harbor Seals easily eat 10x the number of Chinook the Orca's eat when viewed as absolute number of fish versus biomass of fish. This is certainly an area where the numbers can be easily manipulated to support a pre-determined agenda; dunno if it is actually happening though.

Problem is that politically, human harvesters are the easiest to address. Don't see this changing in the next 10 or more years.

 

[agentaqua]

awesome info agentaqua the last one is a must read. From their conclusions in speaking to the SRKW population:

"Our results suggest that at least in recent years competition with other marine mammals is a more important factor limiting the growth of this endangered population than competition with human fisheries."

Harbor Seals easily eat 10x the number of Chinook the Orca's eat when viewed as absolute number of fish versus biomass of fish. This is certainly an area where the numbers can be easily manipulated to support a pre-determined agenda; dunno if it is actually happening though.

Problem is that politically, human harvesters are the easiest to address. Don't see this changing in the next 10 or more years.

Pre-determined agendas are unfortunately both common and often undeclared in the Fisheries/resource management/government/industry/ENGO worlds and esp. where they intersect, eric - IMHO. Some outright lie -most are instead very selective in what information they promote. I don't think the ENGOs/marine mammal lobby are any different in that regard.

That's why open decision making bodies (e.g. true environmental assessment processes) that operate using vetted information and accountability thro something like a term of reference are both important and unfortunately rare. Accountability is anathema to political agendas. That's why the government uses the Privacy Act and "client-solicitor privilege" when responding to or avoiding responding to ATIPs, as one example. You might get a glimpse of the back room play if they have to divulge that info.

 

[ziggy]

Somehow I don't think the aerial photo's of SRKW looking thin compared to other photo's of the same whales at different times are part of a Liberal Pinko Socialist plot to shut-down a bunch of conservative conspiracy theorist sports fishers.

Your not talking about the one that was taken of a pregnant Orca and then compared to one after she had calved?

 

[Dave H]

The entire commercial fleet is allocated 10,000 tons combined. That's the quota for roe herring in the straight of georgia. There is right now as we speak around 140 tons in the straight of Georgia. That's just in one area of bc

So when the boys get their quota, they will have taken less than 10 percent. There is no way that taking 10 percent of a fishery would cause a collapse. Not a chance.

Something doesn't read right about the above.

It reads that the "entire commercial fleet is allocated 10,000 tons combined. That's the quota for roe herring in the straight of georgia."

Then it says: "There is right now as we speak around 140 tons in the straight of Georgia."

Then it says: "So when the boys get their quota, they will have taken less than 10 percent."

That seems butt-backwards to me.

Shouldn't it read that the quota is 140 tons which is less than 10 percent of 10,000 tons?

It's nonsensical as written.



Take care.

 

[ship happens]

140,000 tons


What I meant to write. Got me

 

[gone fishin]

And when was the last commercial fishery there? And what is stopping the biomass in that area from increasing since the last fishery?
Gulf of Georgia stock is healthy.
Central area stock is very very healthy but only FN get access. North Coast is healthy but again FN only.
Haida Gwaii is also healthy but trying to survey the island with one boat is a joke.

There is evidence that when Herring Biomass reaches a critical level it can be very slow to recover.
The West Coast of Vancouver Island is a prime example!
The once abundant Herring Biomass on the West Coast of Vancouver Island has been slow to recover to historic levels.
This was brought about by over commercial harvesting.
These are two undeniable facts;
Plain and simple.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Once herring is closed down I wonder who will next? I can see it now commercial fishing sector call for recreational chinook salmon to be closed.

We can't ask to close other sectors because we are mad about our Chinook fishery.

Here we are pounding fist at table asking DFO to manage our fishery based on science, and we are simply doing the opposite to another sector. Makes no sense to me.

Sorry don't support it until data says otherwise. BTW this is drifting way off topic.

 

[agentaqua]

Here's DFOs 2019 take on it:

 

[SpringVelocity]

Yeah not understanding what issue is.

 

[agentaqua]

I think the tie-in to this thread I see wrt herring numbers is comparing the biomass taken by fisheries verses marine mammals & other predators. That estimate is currently ~10KT/yr WCVI herring by humpbacks and ~20KT/yr by hake. The commercial herring fishery is still closed for WCVI is it not?

 

[wildmanyeah]

Andrew Trits i believe said that he's not a fan of the herring harvest because he looks at it like a sort of an ecological bank account for all the species that depend on it.

I get the argument, you could also add things like Krill to the list but crunch the number on things like humpback requirements and it pretty quickly becomes apparent that the human harvest is relatively small. Humpbacks eat around 2000 pounds a day while they are here in the summer fattening up.

"in 1966, the entire North Pacific humpback population was thought to number only around 1,200 animals [4]. This estimate increased to between 6,000 and 8,000 by 1992 [4]"

Humpback whale

www.biologicaldiversity.org

"In the following decades, numbers in the region showed significant progress toward recovery, reaching an estimated 6,010 (CV = 0.08) whales by the early 1990s (Calambokidis et al. 1997), and depending on the analysis used, estimates of 21,063 (CV = 0.04) whales (Barlow et al. 2011) or 15,805 to 16,132 whales (Wade et al. 2016) by the mid-2000s."

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/02169/wdfw02169.pdf

"Senior Biologist and Cascadia co-founder John Calambokidis has been studying humpbacks for over three decades. His team is currently preparing tag deployments that will provide more data on their movements and feeding. He agrees with Reidy that the Humpback Comeback and these recent large congregations in the Salish Sea are not just due to a population boom but may also reflect a shift in habitat.

“Humpback whales have made a dramatic return to the Salish Sea in recent years and especially this year,” explained Calambokidis. “We’ve had lots of humpback whales offshore in past years and now more of them are coming into the inland waters. That’s probably due to the increased numbers overall likely resulting in expanded areas of use, but also something to do with prey availability, which at this point is harder to determine in detail.”"

We’re Seeing Unprecedented Numbers of Humpbacks | Puget Sound Express

www.pugetsoundexpress.com

 

[wildmanyeah]

I think its also important to note that Humpback populations are increasing, seal populations are increasing, sea lion populations are increasing, Transient killer whale populations are increasing and northern resident killer whale populations are increasing.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Again not understanding the issue. Our NRKW, humpback and sea lions drastically in population sizes?

 

[ship happens]

The southern Orcas came back big time. After total destruction of over half of the population by humans selling , trading and accidental death from capture attempts. Im sure everyone knows that. its not new news

I have seen these whale pods I don't know how many times. Hundred at least. Last year we ran into an A pod up north. All were as happy as a clams at high water. I don't think I've ever seen them not happy.


I just don't see what the big deal is here. I think people need to leave the damn whales alone. Let them be.

 

[searun]

And when was the last commercial fishery there? And what is stopping the biomass in that area from increasing since the last fishery?
Gulf of Georgia stock is healthy.
Central area stock is very very healthy but only FN get access. North Coast is healthy but again FN only.
Haida Gwaii is also healthy but trying to survey the island with one boat is a joke.

Absolutely....but the ENGO's will still try telling the urbanites that the outside herring stock collapse has something to do with commercial fishing....BS! How about we start getting honest about the impacts of other marine mammal predation on various stocks. The politics of environmentalism.

 

[ship happens]

I can say this boys and girls, the herring on this coast are doing well to say the least. Herring is one species that is super sustainable. They could get taken in numbers that could collapse the species, however there is not a market for that. It's actually a dying market. Theres only a commercial fishery if theres a market. Remember that. These guys are only fishing less than 10 percent of the inside fishery. DFO claims it's a 20 percent quota. However it's not. They do minimal testing and to be quite honest have not been fishing their entire lives.

Point here is that bait fish are not even in question in the real scheme.

Orcas are doing awsome.

Are people? Lol

Seals are.

Tight lines fellas

Orcas are the best fishers in the world. Period the end. Not starving.

 

[SpringFever552]

Not my picture, it was sent to me

 

[SpringFever552]

Herring went off at Qualicum beach today...sat and watched the seine boats working, then went and had schnitzel at the black bird..sooo good

 

[Howzer]

I believe the biggest threat to salmon stocks in the strait is over-pops of seals and sealions... just sayin'.
Can't see a cull coming any time soon though.