Winter fishing yes/no

[SpringVelocity]

Oh my god. How many more studies do we need to tell us the whales have enough food. Something else going on guys sorry to say. Stop being sheep.

 

[Peahead]

Oh my god. How many more studies do we need to tell us the whales have enough food. Something else going on guys sorry to say. Stop being sheep.

Thanks for this .... sorry if I get to the SRKW topic here a bit too much but it relates to Chinook availability ....

I have have said many times that Dr Andrew Trites explained recently (referencing a symposium he was at with a team of international scientists ) that they all unanimously agreed that there is absolutely large enough numbers of Chinook coming into JDF each year and available for SRKW to thrive ( at that same time, Trites stated as well that stopping rec fishing would do nothing to provide more food to SRKW). No matter how many times Trites states "there are enough Chinook for SRKW " or "SRKW are not starving" ...... many just continue on the same path thinking that SRKW are thin because there is no food ( they are thinner on average than NRKW) Trites has used words like they are "sick, not starving"

HOWEVER ........ I am a unsure why then Trites goes on to say the SRKW may have trouble foraging / catching the available food ? Because this would still seem to me to be a cause of starving would it not? Starving despite lots of food available? That is still starving I think.

Tincan says the SRKW are likely doomed due to lack of the larger 20+ lb Chinook and yet Dr. Brian Riddel apparently agrees with Trites that there are enough Chinook available to feed SRKW. I see a disconnect here. From my gathering of information from several sources I agree fully with Profisher that while SRKW would prefer 20+ Chinook they do eat smaller salmon species and other fish. Locating smaller salmon while more difficult, what profisher says about feeding on big schools of smaller salmon in the summer makes sense.

Lets not forget also that approx 9 months of the year most of the SRKW are down south and not in BC.

 

[wolf]

I cant believe this is even being brought up!!!!! winter fishing sometimes can be a blast when water is calm and have a good heater in boat . Isnt fishing supposed to be fun and a time for people to get together where they can spend time with loved ones and enjoy our waters????? when did we lose that fact?? this is the only fishery thats NOT been regulated or restricted for one reason most of them are hatchery fish that is the facts.
And to blast others for enjoying going out and having fun shame on you too many armchair fishermen on this site now...used to be a good forum not so much anymore

 

[Whole in the Water]

Agree that anglers are losing the PR battle and those pics covering entire floats with salmon, hali, cod, etc really don't help. Even if there are within their legal limits it's just not a good look given the current political climate so I think it would do us all well by showing less of that.

As for your statement about little chinooks growing into Orca food (big chinooks) that it bit of a leap as not all little chinook do grow into big chinook even if they live a full, healthy life. The reason why the SRWK experts are saying this population could be doomed no matter what we do is because the SRKW rely on large (20lb +) chinook for the vast majority of their diets. Chinook this size used to be commonplace coastwide but as any of us who have been around long enough know, chinook size has decreased substantially over the past several decades. The 2 populations of fraser chinook that are significant for the SRKW are the Harrison and S. Thompson because of their relative size and abundance. There are many other populations of smaller chinook that just don't make the SRKW dinner plate, most likely due to their smaller size (harder to catch via echolocation). The easy solution would be to ask the whales to eat smaller chinook and other species but that just aint gonna happen in all likelihood. The major problem these whales have is that the other big chinook that they rely on throughout the year have essentially disappeared (winter run in sacramento; june run in columbia; etc).

Th size issue is also a reason why throwing up a bunch of new hatcheries isn't necessarily going to solve our SRKW issue. In order to do that, we'd need the hatcheries/enhancement pens that are strategically located so that run timing overlaps with SRKW migration and we'd also need those fish to be large in size. Many hatchery fish return as small adults that wouldn't be primary targets for SRKW. It's the larger chinook populations that would have to be enhanced to have meaningful benefits.

All that to say, go ahead a bonk a few small winter hatchery fish! They are tasty as hell and if it's the difference between eating a fresh 8lb hatchery chinook in February vs. thawing out a chunk of your 35lb harrison white you caught in August you can feel good about the winter spring.

Take a look at this previous post below and the attached document in the first post under the Orca Food Security Program post in the Conservation Section (sorry can't figure out how to attached the doc here in this post)

Look at the proposal you can see the SVIAC is working on trying to do exactly what you say

we'd need the hatcheries/enhancement pens that are strategically located so that run timing overlaps with SRKW migration and we'd also need those fish to be large in size."

". Putting up enhancement pens along the SRKW habitat in the JDF and Salish Sea is exactly what the Orca Food Security Program is all about. We need to produce a lot more large chinook and fast if we are to reduce the starvation issue for the SRKW's
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
We are all concerned about the condition of our endangered Southern Resident Killer Whales (SRKWs) and how the low abundance of Chinook salmon, their preferred food, is hindering recovery. Closing salmon fisheries is not the solution to saving SRKWs nor increasing Chinook abundance. If government does go ahead with fishing closures the socio-economic fallout will be dramatic for First Nations and many people in BC, especially those in small coastal communities. Since the federal government's October 2017 Orca Symposium in Vancouver, we have been waiting for an announcement about tangible Chinook enhancement actions that will benefit the SRKWs, maintain important salmon fisheries and protect the small coastal communities that rely on them. Sadly nothing meaningful has emerged. It is simple, we must produce more Chinook salmon and fast! For that reason, it is important that 'we, the people' lead the way and offer government viable solutions.

Working collaboratively with Brian D. Tutty and Bob Cole, I have prepared a recommendation paper "The Orca Food Security Program" a strategic Chinook enhancement initiative. The recommendation paper's summary document and supporting appendix 2 - "Sooke Chinook Enhancement Initiative" are attached for you to read. (Appendix: 3 - "Omega Pacific Hatchery Chinook Enhancement Initiatives Supporting Orca Food Sustainability" will be shortly). The documents describe a bold and innovative intervention strategy designed specifically to address the abundance of Chinook in the short and medium term while our wild Chinook salmon are restored.

I offer "The Orca Food Security Program - Recommendation Paper (summary document)" to you and hope you support the strategies and approaches described. It is designed to bring us together and work cooperatively on a noble cause that has broad benefits. In the coming days more information on how you can share you support and help move this bold plan forward will be made available.

Yours in conservation,

Chris
_____________
Christopher Bos
President
South Vancouver Island Anglers Coalition
(778) 426-4141
chris@anglerscoalition.com

 

[Peahead]

I cant believe this is even being brought up!!!!! winter fishing sometimes can be a blast when water is calm and have a good heater in boat . Isnt fishing supposed to be fun and a time for people to get together where they can spend time with loved ones and enjoy our waters????? when did we lose that fact?? this is the only fishery thats NOT been regulated or restricted for one reason most of them are hatchery fish that is the facts.
And to blast others for enjoying going out and having fun shame on you too many armchair fishermen on this site now...used to be a good forum not so much anymore

Yeah, with really no logic to a cutting of the winter fishing, one really does start to wonder what feeds the thought of wanting yet another reg. It could be that some of the negative comments directed towards winter chinook retention might be coming from those that put their boat away for the winter anyway and don't fish it. I suppose it could be frustrating to see those fun photos of good times fishing winter chinook - photos of catches of the highest quality chrome fish of the season? Regs also much more relaxed than summer. If you add all that to any thinking that those winter fish in those photos are no longer growing into bigger fish for them to retain in the summer, I suppose that would be frustrating .

One can then perhaps see how a few could convince themselves that this winter fishery must be stopped as it is devastating to the conservation of stocks ....

 

[searun]

What are you guys talking about, everyone knows that SRKW are starving. They don't have enough Chinook to eat, and unless we close every fishery they are doomed. I strongly encourage you all to totally ignore the other science that says there are more than enough Chinook in Puget Sound to feed the starving orca...it's fake news. The science doesn't fit the beliefs, therefore its fake. Quick, close those fisheries the whales are starving because of an out of control fishery.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/02039/

 

[Peahead]

What are you guys talking about, everyone knows that SRKW are starving. They don't have enough Chinook to eat, and unless we close every fishery they are doomed. I strongly encourage you all to totally ignore the other science that says there are more than enough Chinook in Puget Sound to feed the starving orca...it's fake news. The science doesn't fit the beliefs, therefore its fake. Quick, close those fisheries the whales are starving because of an out of control fishery.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/02039/

lol

 

[SpringVelocity]

What are you guys talking about, everyone knows that SRKW are starving. They don't have enough Chinook to eat, and unless we close every fishery they are doomed. I strongly encourage you all to totally ignore the other science that says there are more than enough Chinook in Puget Sound to feed the starving orca...it's fake news. The science doesn't fit the beliefs, therefore its fake. Quick, close those fisheries the whales are starving because of an out of control fishery.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/02039/

Exactly. We have to stop talking like the whales are starving when there is clearly already enough food for them.

 

[Whole in the Water]

It would be good to see the research that state that SRKW's are not starving. Do you have any other sources for this other than the WA Govt. publication above?

This would be important information to clear up the confusion regarding if the SRKW's are starving or not. Thanks.

 

[feelin swell]

Got to wonder if there is really that big of a chinook problem out there to go nuts in 2019? Hopefully we are only seeing an abnormal blob related fluctuation. I believe the Cowichan chinook returns were way up for 2018. I think I heard 12,000 compared to a low of 500 a couple of years back. The Cowichan is supposed to be a bell weather coastal river. How come there are so many seals doing so well out there? Why aren't they starving? There has to be one hell of a lot of fish supporting them. Regardless of a lack of serious Canadian ocean environment research to support science based decisions we know some obvious things that could begin immediately. Like increasing hatchery production. Like supporting volunteer environmental cleanup and protection groups. The DFO/Feds could do a lot more than change bandages on a wound. If.... there is that serious a chinook problem why aren't the DFO/Feds putting up some dollars? Washington State seems to be embarking on a major assault on many fronts at once. They don't seem to be just using one tool in the toolbox like Canada. Guess we'll have to see what actually gets done. I hope they put us to shame.

 

[SpringVelocity]

It would be good to see the research that state that SRKW's are not starving. Do you have any other sources for this other than the WA Govt. publication above?

This would be important information to clear up the confusion regarding if the SRKW's are starving or not. Thanks.

You can ask Searun directly he has the most the up to date info in it. There have been two recent studies that one that clearly states there is no correlation to the orca decline and population fluctuation/drop and that study above. But yet in headlines, NGO's etc its starving...starving...starving. Make for a catchy headline.

 

[Bamfield Fishing]

Dr. Trites in his lectures states the SRKW are not technically starving to death, but they are in distress and while he believes there us enough food overall, access to the food is an issue through physical and acoustic disturbance, and historically low runs of early Chinook, particularly in the southern part of their range results in drawdowns of blubber, therefore releasing toxins that may exacerbate susceptibility to disease, and effect viability of fetuses. It's not as simple as "they are starving" nor is at simple as "there is plenty if food". Neither is completely true, nor is either completely inaccurate.