Why are jets banned on the Gold?

[Blackleech]

quote:Originally posted by ChromeSweetChrome

Good post Ken. Banning Jets is about as lame as making rivers fly fishing only. It all comes from the same cry babies whining to their freinds in power because they think only "ELITE"[)] fishermen should get to enjoy the resource. If you dont like the fishery here maybe you should move to the middle of nowhere on the north coast where you can be all alone, I definitely wont miss you.

Couldn't the same argument be made that sledders are elitist and monopolize the resource?? Jet sleds are a perfect example of a small minority of people having a large impact on the fishery.

 

[Blackleech]

quote:Its very well known on VI that the user groups that have pushed for "jet bans", "bait bans" and "fly only" rivers are the fly fishing community.

Yup... and the spey/fly guys are the biggest hypocrites around... on the Skeena tribs where I've been hanging out the last few years the fly fishing guides are all running the big jets and they can be REAL A-holes about hogging water, dropping guys off to stake out pools, etc... Steeliehead should be able to comment on this being a Skeena guide? []

 

[Fish-Rite]

Hey Duane??....When did you step up and get a jet???Good on ya bro!!!....Myster see you soon!!!....Thinking of loading up the jet and heading too The mighty Gold this week!!!......Can't f'n wait!!....Oh ya and Haddon why dont you meet me at the pullout for a B.S. and we can "BURN ONE" just like you and the council member used to!Cheers!!

 

[Roe Bags]

Honey Bee....U don't have a jet, your the biggest RIVER RAT out there and your full ****!! One of the main reasons the hatchery program on the Cowichan got shut down, Had his head stuck so far up Horneys butt he forgot what a steelhead looks like..[}]

Pass the Pack

 

[Fish-Rite]

Calling a spade a spade!!!...way to go bags!!!

 

[Luna]

Confirm

 

[Fishmyster]

Thanks guys more complaints. I’ll share my feelings on them with you all.
“Jets are too intrusive on the wilderness?” The temporary noise pollution from a jet boat doesn’t hold a candle to the lasting effects of shore based fishing. A popular shore spot is covered with line, cigarette buts, yarn, bobbers in the trees, pruned shrubbery, fire pits ect… Jets occasionally leave a few foot prints. So who is running whose experience?
“Competition from jet boat guiding takes from all the anglers experience and ultimately chases more people away from a river?” On the Stamp River in a normally one thousand individual anglers hire and support jets were there is less than 250 assorted local or visiting anglers fish the shore in a given year. Do you really think that the shore angling effort is going to quadruple and everyone is going to be happier then? Removing jet boats would be like taking from Peter to give to Paul who is a minority. Guided jet boat anglers actually impact the resource less than the average shore angler by angling less frequent.
“Murphy has a monopoly and his guides are just laborers?” Murphy advertises LOTS to promotes sport fishing, employs people, pays a hell of a lot of taxes and offers a service that is appreciated by more people than not. His guides would be on EI if David closed shop. Why is he so bad? Where is this monopoly? Everyone that is a resident of this province has the ability to be a guide and attempt to attract clientele. What’s the restraint holding the others back? You anti Murphy guys, have a heart will ya. Those guests are having the time of their lives! Most of the guests are either amateur or elderly unable to compete with a barrage of hungry shore anglers. Many would never have a chance of catching a steelhead from the beach. That’s why they hired a charter boat. Steelhead fishing is fun! Should it only be the healthy or skilled? The complaint should be “I don’t like other “boat” anglers having a better time and catching more fish than me. The competition is too great and I want them to go away”
“Jets over fish a river by hit every livable hole on a river or fish should be left alone after being caught nine times?” Yes some anglers have bought into the idea over c&r fishing can do harm to the fish stocks. We care for the fish so much that we don’t want you all to hurt them. This is how the fish have been regulated over the last bunch of years. Emotion is regulating our fish not science. That’s why almost everywhere is closed now. If angling had any impact on s/h than all the closed rivers would be teaming with fish. Those fish are tough buggers. Seal and otter gashes do far more damage than soar mouth syndrome. C&r fishing at any level does nothing to harm the s/h stocks. The more times that a fish gets caught to more economic worth it can have.
When our waters are regulated by science combined with economic worth not emotion both us and the fish will be better off. My prophecy.
Did I miss any? Any more viable complaints to discuss?

 

[highlights]

I want to run a 21' thunder jet with a 175 horse jet. I want a nice put in and access to service road indefinitely. Can you tell me when that would be the case for someone other than our good man Dave. Don't get me wrong, I like Dave. I have no problems with his operation. I no longer wish to guide so signing up to gain privileges to a river really irritates me. So far my driftboat has seemingly been retired from the SSS system due to the availability of descent launches. The municipality is doing nothing short of making it a <Murphy only gig up there. If they would encourage more anglers they would recognize the need for better access.

I am led to beleive thay "they" are not interested in the money I have to spend in their town.

 

[Fish-Rite]

What good woula thunderjet be on the sss?Dont tell me your one of these guys who planes down river???

 

[highlights]

Does not matter to me what good it would do. We were asked to articulate any issues we saw with the current mandate at the SSS regarding jets. ( ooohps this is the Gold river thread regarding jets ) I simply suggest that should I want to , it seems to be difficult for anyone else other than guides on that system. There is a double standard as to the HP we are allowed to use while Murphy's sleds are out fitted which much higher rated engines.

And yes, wheather it's planing up river or down that is the purpose of the jet. To get around quickly. If I want to drift I'll save my $ and bring out the drift boat. Oh wait a second the launches are no longer available.[xx(] Tell you what you get the municipality to get some descent access points for all to use and I'll ask my fishing partner to leave the jet at home . Util then it's our choiceand we're jetting

 

[Dinnertime]

Hey Fishmyster,how come you no longer work for Murpheys? And how come there is no access/egress anymore for other boaters to get into the action? I have no problem with the jetboats as long as get the f out of my way when im fishing from the shore, even if they were there first.They only should be fishing areas where there is no shore access.One more thing, what is Mcinroy up to these days?

 

[highlights]

....... I am pro angler. Shore or boat no matter. I am a firm beleiver though that if you snooze you lose. First come first serve . Then once a fish or two are taken one should move along and let another guy in on the gravy. Simple etiquette.

Which reminds me of an incident regarding a jet some years ago. I waited for a spot for some time ( a hour or so ) The guide hooked a fish and had to take chase. He went around a corner and was out of sight. I finally got to slide into position and immediately hooked up. Well the jet came right back up to resume fishing. Course he barked everything in the book at me. I could not and still do not beleive the rage. Especially in front of guests. It was his choice to chase the fish. Once you move on I'm sorry but you have given up your spot potentially to another angler. Fairs fair. Thats where the jet may have an unfair advantage especially if the skipper does not exercise any form of ettiquette

 

[ChromeSweetChrome]

quote:Originally posted by Dinnertime

Hey Fishmyster,how come you no longer work for Murpheys? And how come there is no access/egress anymore for other boaters to get into the action? I have no problem with the jetboats as long as get the f out of my way when im fishing from the shore, even if they were there first.They only should be fishing areas where there is no shore access.One more thing, what is Mcinroy up to these days?

Are you serious man? Sorry , first come first serve. Get up earlier if you want a spot to yourself.

 

[Fishmyster]

If I and my guests are fishing a hole and someone from shore shows up and tells me to “get the f out of my way” I’m going to tell him to s%^k my d#$k and then I’ll leave him the hole like I always do for any shore angler. What is wrong with sharing anyway? I’ve never had a problem with it. It’s enjoyable for me to watch others catch fish wherever they may stand. Because everywhere that the fish hold in the river is accessible from shore should the guides give up their jobs and leave the fish for the shore guys? Some days when I drive up the river there is someone in every spot that fish hold. I’ve got to kill time fishing the empty holes till the good ones open up. Luckily the fish bite thru out the day and my guests get opportunity during the shift change.

Horse power restrictions and closed boat launch sites aren’t because of Murphy or local guide lobbing. I think jets should be allowed for everybody and the river needs more proper boat launches. No, apparently the municipality doesn’t give a s$%t about your money. Don’t feel bad they don’t care about mine either. If you are unhappy with the restricted access and boat regs. then don’t be afraid to lobby yourself rather than wait for someone to do it for you.

First come first serve then leave a hole for others is a great concept. But if there is nobody in line waiting then is it alright if I have another serving?

Anybody who is in a boat bitching or obstructing a shore angler who is trying to share the same water is being a j&*k a$%. That shouldn’t be happening much lately.

Simple etiquette should be live and let live. Quit bitching about your fellow sportsman who is trying to enjoy the same thing as you even if he does it diffrent. Share the resource.

So far, other than some past boner acts by some boaters, the only real reasons for jet boat opposition is competition or jealousy. Although complainers may word it differenty It all boils down to these two reasons. Kind of sad isn't it.

 

[Steelhead S2]

I'm thinking about some of the pro-jet arguments posted recently, and I may address them in the future. As stated before, I don't have a problem with jets per se, I just don't think they necessarily belong on every river and stream in the province. Certainly I have no problem with jets on the SSS, but that system is far from an example of balanced cooperation among different user groups, or even different users in the same group. Hardly a week goes by but someone on this site gets all puffed up about fishing on the SSS and starts getting a little big for his britches, "threatening" to get physical if another angler so much as walks past him. This is not the climate I want to see on any other island flow. Perhaps the conflict they cause is reaon enough to keep jets off most rivers.

As far as reducing everyone who argues that jet access should be generally restricted to mere jealousy, that just doesn't make sense. First of all, a number of us actually like walking and wading, or drifting peacefully. Secondly, the SSS is really the only mainstream jet river on the island, which means jets are actually very limited. Why would anyone be jealous of jet boats when they are limited to only one relatively unpleasant systems? I am also not jealous of the guy with a fish pond in his back yard.

Myster, you did a fair job at addressing some of my earlier arguments, although I don't think you've actually succeeded in rebutting all of them. But I am still waiting for some persuasive arguments as to why jets should be allowed on any river in the first place. So far the closest I've seen is one member complaining that he doesn't like being told what to do. But of course that isn't very persuasive at all. We live in a society governed by law and regulation, and there is no intrinsic reason why that shouldn't extend to river access and boating. Safety concerns, equitable access, and sensitive habitat preservation are just a few reasons why we should not deregulate sport fishing on BC flows.

 

[Dogbreath]

quote:I am still waiting for some persuasive arguments as to why jets should be allowed on any river in the first place......We live in a society governed by law and regulation, and there is no intrinsic reason why that shouldn't extend to river access and boating

Sounds a lot like good old fashioned totalitarianism to me, regulate every single aspect of people's behaviour then start in on what they're thinking.

FYI</u>-No one has to justify any behaviour which is lawful.

 

[highlights]

Yes I have written my share of letters to the powers that be for one municipality of Port Albernie. They are fully aware of my concerns regarding equal access for all so inclined anglers.
I would encourage others to do so as well.

Thanks


HL

 

[Dinnertime]

Hey Fishmyster,I bet you and the Murpheys are all heartbroken about there being no access/egress for other boaters on the Stamp.Probally brings a big smile to your faces to be the only one jetting the Stamp.I would say that when a great guide such as Mcinroy can't make a living there anymore your days are numbered as well.

 

[Tofinoguy]

quote:Originally posted by Dinnertime

Hey Fishmyster,I bet you and the Murpheys are all heartbroken about there being no access/egress for other boaters on the Stamp.Probally brings a big smile to your faces to be the only one jetting the Stamp.I would say that when a great guide such as Mcinroy can't make a living there anymore your days are numbered as well.

Would you be happier if ALL boats were banned?

 

[Steelhead S2]

I don't buy it, Dogbreath. We all justify lawful behaviour all the time. People justify all sorts of decisions to themselves and to others every day, like having a second dessert, or sliding into a fishing spot when another angler clears out to land a fish. Even before the courts people are often called upon to justify behaviour by proving that it is in fact (and in law) lawful; in effect, this is a matter of justifying lawful behaviour.

But that's not really the point. Regardless of whether the behaviour is lawful, the question I am asking is: should it be lawful, or is it desirable to allow jet boats on VI rivers? If so, which rivers and why?. Responding to opposition (and there is nothing oppositional in these questions, btw) by stating that they do not warrant a response because they inquire into lawful conduct only serves to stifle open discussion. These questions are legitimate regardless of whether the conduct at issue is lawful.

Besides, what was initially at issue in this thread is "the REAL reason that jet boats are banned on the Gold and Salmon rivers." If we were to adopt your position, the answer would be "this is not a question that can be asked. Jet boats are lawfully banned on those rivers. Because this prohibition is lawful, no one is required to justify this state of affairs." I don't know about you, but to me it sounds a whole lot more totalitarian to close debate preemptively than to give open and fair hearing to all sides of an issue. To be clear, this thread began by seeking a justification of a lawful state of affairs.

Also, the rule of law is precisely the opposite of totalitarianism. In a society organized according to the rule of law no one is above the law, including the highest officials. In a totalitarian system those in power are the law, and put themselves above it. Law and regulation based on reason, consistency, predictability and equal application is not a form of totalitarianism, it is the antidote to it.

I guess I am wayyyyyyyyyyy off topic here, huh? Sorry about that.