Where do 40+ lb Chinook come from? (via PSF)

[Fish Camp]

You see them at puntlage hatchury viewing window.and porpoising up the river.never snorkled.Campbell there again behind the quinny you see 40+ lbs chinook porpoising up the river.I remeber when 20+ chinook all over 40+ up the kook in fair harbour all porpoising around me fair harbour.Tashish where i landed 49# on last year ever opened.once a year i try the boundery of varny ,and you can see them at the tail out of freash water on the marble.cowichan has a few that pass the hump at comox.sitka but thats a whole history lesson that only i contribute to the campbell.confuance of the two nanimo rivers ,see them jumping.muchlate lake see them under the dock in the park.White plug 30 pulls 6 oz weight 45 pulls try to stay in top 30 feet of water ,and you will have a chance to see one at the end of your line.

 

[california]

The Wannock River has had hatchery activity on it since 1992 - this is not a NEW push by Duncanby and Good Hope, they are helping maximize the already present hatchery system. A lot of support and management by the local First Nations group have created the new hatchery on the Wannock, but other facilities had been used in the past to stock this river.

This is true, but it was a much smaller operation and did less damage. It has now been elevated to full factory status, and will be much more damaging than the smaller previous facility. Yes you are correct Duncanby and Good hope have maximized the existing facility. That is precisely my point. This is completely self serving and has NOTHING to do with the long term health of this stock. Like any hatchery, they will weaken the stock genetically and increase the number of male jacks and small fish returning. But there will be more fish, at least for a while which is all they care about. This is an idiotic place to put a hatchery, and is a result of a slick PR campaign and corporate money.

 

[Derby]

If you knew the good people from Good Hope & Duncanby lodge then u would understand this has nothing to do with a slick PR stint...careful what u say without knowing anything about the people involved in this....

 

[OldBlackDog]

Just a reminder about what is being allowed on the Fraser and soon on other rivers that have runs of salmon.

It's all about money, not about fish.

You better hope that our hatcheries work well as soon that is all we will have.



https://thetyee.ca/News/2006/04/19/SalmonKillsMining/

 

[california]

If you knew the good people from Good Hope & Duncanby lodge then u would understand this has nothing to do with a slick PR stint...careful what u say without knowing anything about the people involved in this....

At the end of the day they are serving what they believe to be their their own interests with this hatchery. They have a lot of money invested in the operations, and even more in future cash flows to try and protect. Ive spent my working career in corporate environments, and am quite aware of what the ultimate goal is, so really do not need to know anyone there. The corporation was created to make money, and don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with making money. To think this corporate entities goals are somehow different than any other company is however, simply naive. I have hired Betty White to do a PSA on eye disease about 15 years ago, so am quite familiar with the use of celebrities to further causes, they aren't the first to think of it with Rick Hansen (I'm sure Betty was much more expensive). Ultimately the hatchery, like others before it will fail but it will take decades, and in the near term hatcheries do increase the numbers before they inevitably fall off. This is part of the problem, hatcheries were hailed as great successes early on, returns went up considerably. Starting 4 or 5 years from now there will be increased runs in the Wannock, and it will continue for a number of years. Duncanby will hail its achievement with the hatchery, pay Rick Hansen for photo ops, and the publicity will bring more trophy seekers to their lodges. It takes some time to destroy the genetic diversity and alter the evolutionary forces which have shaped this run since the last ice age, but it will happen. There is now a large body of scientific literature detailing what will happen to this run over relatively few generations from an evolutionary standpoint. But before that happens, Duncanby and the other Lodges will do well.

 

[Derby]

Perhaps u know corp. side of the business world and you would be correct... but u do not know anything about the fishing side of this industry....... 2 different worlds my friend.. meet the people that are involved in the project...perhaps take a moment out of your day one time and have a listen of what Rick Hansen has to say... its has nothing to do with Corp. or profit.... for these guys its passion, the fish , the sustainability of a fishery and perhaps most importantly what the future holds.......

 

[vic-tory]

Know all involved, duncanby and good hope especially, only have the best intentions for the resource. Maybe ill advised according to you California but it's not fair to think they are doing it for only short term gain and that they know long term it will be bad for run. They aren't those type of people. Want only the best for it. Whether or not long term it may hurt. Who knows but they're doing it with best intentions long and short term

 

[california]

Know all involved, duncanby and good hope especially, only have the best intentions for the resource. Maybe ill advised according to you California but it's not fair to think they are doing it for only short term gain and that they know long term it will be bad for run. They aren't those type of people. Want only the best for it. Whether or not long term it may hurt. Who knows but they're doing it with best intentions long and short term

We can agree to disagree - hatcheries are KNOWN to have long term deleterious effects on the wild stock. The evidence to this effect is overwhelming any they are fully aware of it but choose to ignore it. Derby says I know nothing of the fishing side of this industry? I have fished in BC since I was a kid, I did a biology undergrad degree at UBC focusing on fisheries, while I didn't stay in fisheries biology several of my friends did, and worked under people like Dr. Karl Walters for their masters and Ph.Ds. Of course hatchery lovers don't like Karl too much as he has been a critic of DFO and the hatchery programs.

The stock is not in collapse, the returns are consistent around 4,000-5,000 Chinook so there is no other possible reason for a hatchery except to increase the number of fish in the short term. There is a reason that Good Hope calls the enhancement program a BUSINESS PLAN because it's a BUSINESS for them! Here is their business plan http://www.goodhopecannery.com/pdfs/RiversInletSalmonInitiative_5yrBusinessPlan_March2015.pdf
The fact some of you are so brainwashed that's its not business they primarily care about is only evidence that they have executed their business plan very well!

Stop being such hatchery sheep before there are no wild fish left up there, maybe its already too late. Their business plan estimates 18-20% of the fish are hatchery origin already, with this new factory they have built they should be able to get the proportion of returning factory fish up to over 50%, by then even all the naturally spawning fish will be like a West Virginian Appalachia family reunion, lots of nooky with the kinfolk!

 

[Derby]

Well.. now we have dived in to 2 different things...first of all... any business that doesn't have a business plan short or long terms is pretty is dust in the wind .... u can agree or dis agree to there particular plan but it is there plan....

2nd of all Baaahhahaa... sorry had to do that..... now if you want to debate hatcheries...I'm pretty sure u and I wouldn't have much of a debate as we would find common ground on most stuff ..... It really falls to procedures that a particular salmon hatchery follows.. so there would not be much debate... that being said ...there is a lot of moving parts in this particular hatchery in which I cannot discuss on a forum board...

My only beef here was before you cast stones at a project and supporter, know the people involved..as someone who has been active involved in the sportfishing industry and particular the lodge industries for over 30 years... I can personal say that the people involved in this particular project are and have been some of the best stewards & people that one can meet in there lives.... and I have seen lots of lodge and people come and go over those years... ..

 

[california]

2nd of all Baaahhahaa... sorry had to do that.....

No worries, I had a Baaaaa in the post originally but deleted it!

 

[Pursuit]

K, 2 more charts to show from the data I was provided.

This first one show escapement history for around 20 years for the Kalum and Wannock with the latest numbers here being 2010 so a little outdated.

View attachment 30839

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And this last one below will help you plan your next fishing trip to Haida Gwaii as it's got the run timing (catch dates) of all 40+ lb chinook that were part of the study in Area 1 (note: I believe the data below was just for the 4 years ending 2010).

View attachment 30840 View attachment 30840

Thanks for these charts Tincan! Should have checked the forums before booking an early July trip to Langara Although it looks like that's the time to see fish from both rivers.