Well, well, well, can't hide the truth forever

[QUOTE=" give me an example of how ff have impacted wild stocks at the population level. [/QUOTE]


Dave...HERE IS AN EXAMPLE AS YOU ASKED....
even Fish Farms acknowledge sea lice are a serious problem.
They use Slice to try and control sea lice for now but not working so well lately I am told and Slice has not got International approval as safe for use, last time I checked...yes, or no?
And sorry, they are not your Fish Farms, but you do seem to be their self appointed PR man.

upload_2016-9-26_18-11-44.png
 
If sea lice Is a problem for out going Wild stocks then why Is it not a problem for the Fish Farm in coming stocks? I've asked This question before but.......no real answer. If the Fish Farm Is bringing in 100- 150K of smolts wouldn't they want to protect their investment? if sea lice is a problem would the farm pack up and leave? If the counts are high farms in nootka sound they are packing up till counts come back down
 
Which stock was impacted and to what degree?
What degree of impact would be acceptable?

Do we agree wild salmon are to some degree susceptible to Fish Farm Sea Lice?
I do know Fish Farms have concentrated their Sea Lice control to coincide with the anticipated passing of wild Smolts
And...what you say about Slice?
 
Which stock was impacted and to what degree?

can you prove that they are not impacted and to no degree? I would think the onus would be on the industry to prove that there isn't an impact, but anyone using logic, reasoning and common sense would say that there's been an impact. can you show me the study that shows that sea lice don't have an effect on our returning salmon smolts?
I'm assuming you will come up with a peer reviewed study of course...
 
If sea lice Is a problem for out going Wild stocks then why Is it not a problem for the Fish Farm in coming stocks? I've asked This question before but.......no real answer.
could it be because fish farm fish are fed feed containing slice? I don't think our wild fish eat that... or I would hope not at least. as it doesn't have international approval to be safe to eat or even use...
I know I wouldn't want to eat a fish that's been fed a toxic pesticide in it's feed...
here, read up on it. quite educational...

http://www.farmedanddangerous.org/s...ironmental-impacts/chemical-treatments-slice/
 
Go to bed guys. In the morning show me a wild BC salmon stock that has shown declivity due to farmed salmon. If you can I will reply but you won't because you can't.
Clayquotkid nailed it months ago - until there are dead wild fish floating belly up due to farmed salmon you are farting in the wind, and totally missing the big picture regarding the plight of wild salmon. I think I've had enough of this go around and will wait for some real science to come forward before I respond to these posts.

Not to worry, I won't let the door hit my butt on the way out.
 
Go to bed guys. In the morning show me a wild BC salmon stock that has shown declivity due to farmed salmon. If you can I will reply but you won't because you can't.
Clayquotkid nailed it months ago - until there are dead wild fish floating belly up due to farmed salmon you are farting in the wind, and totally missing the big picture regarding the plight of wild salmon. I think I've had enough of this go around and will wait for some real science to come forward before I respond to these posts.

Not to worry, I won't let the door hit my butt on the way out.

I think there were a few good questions asked and Dave, you seem unable or unwilling to answer them.
Have Fish Farms ever used the timing of Slice to minimise their Sea Lice contact with wild salmon Smolt migration and if so why
Why Slice has yet to receive approval as safe
And to what degree does Fish Farm Sea Lice impact salmon.
Take a wild guess....0%, 10%, 20% or more???
 
from what i can see upon the seas,is sea lice form in massave schools on our estuarys they carry it to other hosts.
 
here's what one study and the science has found.
www.sciencemag.org
SCIENCE
VOL 318 14 DECEMBER 2007


"The louse-induced mortality of pink salmon is commonly over 80% and exceeds
previous fishing mortality. If outbreaks continue, then local extinction is certain, and a 99%
collapse in pink salmon population abundance is expected in four salmon generations."


look for this title below in the pdf...

Declining Wild Salmon
Populations in Relation to
Parasites from Farm Salmon


https://www.sfu.ca/cstudies/science/resources/1320967257.pdf
 
I think the worst thing about responding to the pro-industry PR machine speaking notes - is that is reverses the burden of proof. It is the responsibility of all industries to prove they are not having any impacts - or if they are/will - to mitigate and compensate. All industries - other than the open net-pen industry - that avoids any real environmental assessments - which also happens to be the one that has operations IN THE WATER. Pretty corrupt that we ended-up in this situation.
 
In many ways I agree AA, the burden of proof should be on government and industry. but they've become more and more corrupt, blinded by their greed and arrogance. the message needs to keep on getting out there to the public (the people they obviously forgot they work for) what they are trying to get away with..
this page has links to 26 different scientific studys in regard to sea lice and salmon... and Dave, the corporate cheerleader for the salmon farming industry, feels their isn't a problem. maybe he and a few of our government leaders should read some of them... I have and the outlook for wild salmon is pretty grim... the way I see it is we can have a wild salmon industry or we can have an open net pen fish farming industry. but the way the salmon farmers are running their industry we won't have both into the future.
and the industry and government wants to increase production of these prolific net pen feedlots by huge margins in the next few years.
these guys always "say show us the science", then we do, then they ignore it and carry on anyways... blinded by greed...
there is so much wrong with this industry once you've looked into it, it's crazy it's been allowed to carry on, never mind increase in size and production.

http://www.farmedanddangerous.org/scientific-case/sea-lice-research/
 
Sometimes lost in all this, and I know we are just talking the impact of fish farms here, is the issue of overfishing of the wild stock. I have to wonder if overfishing by the three major group, Commercial, Recreational and First Nations aren't being given a free pass, while having a much larger impact?

Might sound like a conspiracy theory but all attention, on this site anyway, seems to focus on fish farms as the sole cause, or at least largest cause, of declining wild stock. What about the impact of overfishing? I'm sure many facets of the "wild fish" harvesting industries are ecstatic that the focus has been shifted off them.

At any rate I have no interest in defending my opinion to a bunch of anonymous posters so I think I'll leave it there. One final thing though, I don't consider myself a fish farm supporter
 
Well Ziggy you make some good points. And I do agree that there may be other contributing factors to salmon stock declines. I also happen to agree with Ms Mortons research. What i think really gets people going is the flat refusal by pro farmers to accept any responsibility of any kind for their part of the problem. And what really takes the cake is the continued refusal to post up the studies showing that fish farms don't cause harm. Which is exactly what they demand from the anti side. Even when someone does post a response to the pro side they categorically deny it and then out comes the slander and the name calling and the "well your not educated enough to come to that conclusion". Yet the pro side is the worst offender when it comes down to it. First "whales then seals and now take the "sportfisherman" comment. Nothing to back it up. Just more of the same old pro side propaganda. And then when the time comes to answer for your comments it's"good night boys I've had enough". I know from my standpoint the pro sides lack of real answers and the refusal to show their (independent) research has made my decision which side is correct very simple. Ms Morton may not meet the criteria that the pro side demands but has shown so much more than the pro side has that the decision is obvious.
 
CR, Many of us here on either side of the discussion have discussed your questions and posted studies extensively years before you joined in. This factor and your approach to the discussion which is somewhat childish, i.e. your taunting title of this thread make having the discussion with you some what moot.

I get your position. You appose salmon farms on many levels and thats that. There is not much discussion to be had with that mentality specifically when your satisfied with the tactics and shenanigans morton display in her career as an activist.

Just because you are not receiving a response to your "demands" on this forum does not mean there isn't a response. But by all means feel free to draw your conclusions from that if thats all you require as "proof".

I too have backed away from these pissing matches because they have a few new joiners who seem to just be repeating over and over the same old scare tactics and info that is OLD news to the rest of us. This is also a tactic of activists is to repeat repeat repeat in the hopes that those who see it repeatedly will eventually believe it. Thats fine but I'm not sure its attracting the general publics attention as it is meant too in fact I think its backfiring. For example this study from 2007 predicted the extinction of pink salmon within 4 years. https://www.sfu.ca/cstudies/science/resources/1320967257.pdf How did that peer reviewed scientific paper turn out? Not so well. Pink populations exploded years after that.

Anyway, I think if you want feed back from your posts you have to change your tone otherwise your on your own.

As for being called stupid, and uneducated or what ever else you claim to have encountered here, I think I've been licensed to say this LOL having endured extensive abuse here, quit being such a whiny baby and just have a discussion where you stick to the topic. Try discussing the topic in a manner that is open and inviting instead of how you are going about in this thread.
 
I think your comments, Ziggy - on the impacts from various fisheries - are well-taken. It's the reason why DFO has dictated that there is 3rd party validation for commercial fisheries as a condition of licence. For all "fisheries" DFO has instituted the: "Strategic Framework for Fishery Monitoring and Catch Reporting in the Pacific Fisheries".

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/...amework_monitoring-cadre_surveillance-eng.pdf
http://www.sportfishing.bc.ca/docs/...conference_dec._6_2012_-_catch_monitoring.pdf

Yet - even though in the Morton case - aquaculture was designated as a "fishery" - no such a thing as 3rd party validation in that industry - nor is there risk assessment and mitigation evaluation.
 
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Thanks birdsnest for proving my point. please reread my post. The name calling is directed at Ms Morton by the pro side. I've read some of the studies you talk about. Couldn't find any that were none partisan and independent. And thanks for calling me childish. But I'd like to steer you to Dave who shows classic childish behaviour by throwing out random unfounded "facts" and then runs and hides when questioned about them. So please feel free to post up those "unbiased" "independent" studies. And no immediate or any reply required(not sure where your getting
That from) just want the pro side to man up and give the same that they ask for. If they can't do that then they're not gonna convince many people fish farms are good for much.
 
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Sportfisherman? Really would like to see some data on that. Current and non partisan if you can. Please
 
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