Very LOW salmon returns

B

babine

Guest
something has to be done. Up in the skeena today there was not 1 fish jumping nor seen. And with the commercial fisherman they have caught next to nothing this year. All my grandpa's commercial fishing freinds said they caught about 70 for the day... that is terrible that totals up to be abuot 650 - $700 and fuel alone is 1000 a day. And same with sporties out on the skeena not even a scale. But what i think the problem is the sporties out on the ocean. Not the charters but the big lodges are to blame. 1 lodge on whales island has 150 boats alone and theres three lodges with 100 boats plus. They are to blame in my opinion. Dont Any1 dare blame commercial fisherman for this because they get 16 hours a week to fish. Sporties are every day.
My proposal is to shutdown commercial and sports fishing for 4 years for the salmon returns.

here's the stats to back it up.....

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/northcoast/webdocs/Tyee Test/se.html

thoughts?[xx(]
 
here are my rough estimates for a day.

commercial - 300 boats on the north coast est.
70 - 100 a day = 3000 roughly per week

Sport - Roughly 1900 boats
10 - 12 Fish a day 19000 - a day
133000 - a week
 
commercial only get to go 1 day a week. for 16 hours and 16 times a year.
 
You need to look at the history... Not just what's happening now, when it comes to stats and blame, IMO.
 
quote:Originally posted by babine

something has to be done. Up in the skeena today there was not 1 fish jumping nor seen. And with the commercial fisherman they have caught next to nothing this year. All my grandpa's commercial fishing freinds said they caught about 70 for the day... that is terrible that totals up to be abuot 650 - $700 and fuel alone is 1000 a day. And same with sporties out on the skeena not even a scale. But what i think the problem is the sporties out on the ocean. Not the charters but the big lodges are to blame. 1 lodge on whales island has 150 boats alone and theres three lodges with 100 boats plus. They are to blame in my opinion. Dont Any1 dare blame commercial fisherman for this because they get 16 hours a week to fish. Sporties are every day.
My proposal is to shutdown commercial and sports fishing for 4 years for the salmon returns.

here's the stats to back it up.....

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/northcoast/webdocs/Tyee Test/se.html

thoughts?[xx(]
Click to expand...
One lodge on whales island has 150 boats I don't think so.Last time I was up there was only one lodge on whales and it only had seven boats.I have never heard of a lodge that has close to a 150 boats[:eek:)]
 
I think you need to look into your information more before you go making a bold statement like that. If you want to know another stat...... sport fishing brings in about 10 times more income to our province than commercial fishing does!!!!!!!!!!
IMO
 
I'm sure I'm not the only one who is a bit better than you at math amigo, but I'll be the one to point it out.
You wrote:

"here are my rough estimates for a day.

commercial - 300 boats on the north coast est.
70 - 100 a day = 3000 roughly per week

If 300 boats caught just 10 fish each per day that would be 3000 fish right there. Commercial boats catch a few more than 10 fish a day.
Your model here is bogus.


Sport - Roughly 1900 boats
10 - 12 Fish a day 19000 - a day
133000 - a week"

I seriously doubt that every sport boat kills 10-12 fish per day.
Seriously doubt that.
And I also seriously doubt that sporties have ever killed 133,000 salmon on the North Coast in one season.

Now, to give you an example of how this works in real life, I was living in Sandspit when the Haida and some commercials (trollers mostly) wre all up in arms over the proliferation of sportfishing lodges around Langara and Naden Harbour back in 1990. They claimed the lodges were killing thousands of fish that the trollers also fished for and the world was coming to an end etc etc.
I had a pal, the late John Brockley, get me the most recent count of salmon killed by the lodges. They record their catches quite faithfully, although now I just know some nimrod will come on with a story of how he was at a lodge and they didn't count his fish etc. etc, but the bottom line was that at that time in the season, late June, the lodges had recorded 3,900 salmon killed, mostly Chinook.
In the nine days of commercial trolling that happened after their protests at Langara the commercial trollers landed 65,000 pieces, mostly Chinook.

Now who killed the bigger number of salmon?

Pretty obvious.

And the math worked like this.

400 trollers averaging 20 fish each per day equals 8000 fish per day.
They fished nine days.

9 x 8000 equals 72,000.

They only landed 65,000 because not all averaged 20 fish a day, but that's the common average.
Sporties don't kill 20 Chinook a day on average.

No comparison between the sporty numbers and the commercial numbers.
Silly to even try.

Take care.
 
I thought you were done here David H!!!Talk is cheap go back too fishbc and yap with Scott.K!
 
Dave, if only you could do the math on the numbers on what teh natives kill on the Fraser each year!!!!
 
LOL...point all the fingers in the world at any one user group and then give them the brunt of the blame as to why the fish are not coming home in certain areas of the globe - what the hell is that going to prove??? Absolutely nothing!

Get together as a whole, and build a popular solution for everyone who wishes to kill fishes...no other short tern solutions will work! One and all or not at all!!!

Cheers,
RVP. ;)
 
okay so my math is not the greatest, and their just my estimates...no need to flame me but belive it or not sporties catch a hell of alot more then commercial, and i know their is at least 1900+ boats for sporties because in pr. rupert alone their are 1300. And add up all the lodges. And for the fish count number....Every boat that comes onto the dock at rushbrooke floats, has at least 10 - 12 fish and mostly sockeye salmon. And add 1900 boats x 10 - 12 avg x 1 day = 1900
1900 x 7 = 13300 a week ( sorry misread the calculator first time) what's their argue about????? And for the indians salmon thats none of of your damn buisness because that's their own friggin land!!! they can take as much as they damn well please!!!
 
babine;

Maybe I'm missing something. According to your logic, you're quessing that each and every sportboat goes out each and every day and plucks a dozen or so salmon. And you believe these assumptions to be true because of ??? ?

If all your base #'s are correct It would still reguire that all boats fished all the time and that they all fished successfully all the time and hit this target, all the time.

Seldom do I see a guide boat loaded up with 10 or 12 salmon from one outing.

If the sporty's are catching fish then why aren't the commercials, they fish the same waters don't they?


Like I said, maybe I'm missing something (?).
 
Since i am without my second cup of coffee and stuck at work rather than pillaging what remains of the Sea, this may come across bluntly.

IMO, The future looks Bleak and no single resource user group is to Blame, just some more than others. I for one, as well certainly many others on here have witnessed entire stocks wiped out by the sein fleet in the larte 70s and early 80s.How many DOuble Wide Springs head up the Nahmint River now? I have pictures of me and my dad fishing Chathom Pt light in a 12' tinner out of Rock Bay, actually having to row over the shore pinned set lines with the 9.9 tilted up because so many seiners set around the point almost locking us in between nets. Back then it was almost normal,no one new any better that the stocks couldn't take it. Now the thought of those big slabs squishing over the edge of the drum as the boats listed 30 degrees with weight, it disgusts me. I tend to think that the lodges don't quite deserve the entire blame here.
 
Definetly not the Sport Fisherman! Never has been.

Sport fisherman put back the most $$ pound for pound.

The biggest problems our Salmon Stocks have seen is over fishing by commercial fleets both native and non native and loss or destruction of habitat.

There is no chance that Sport fisherman are to blame for the salmon stocks current down turn. You can not blame the Sport fisherman of today for the toll taken by huge commercial catches and habitat loss of yesterday.
 
Im gonna have too get up there with my jet sled and a bucket full of roe and clean the rest out!!Then all your fear mongering will be over!!zroom zroom fire up the jets!!
 
Would have to say habitat destruction, both in the rivers and lack of food in the ocean would probably be the biggest part of this. As for the commercail/sport fish fight, sure now the commercail guys are getting very limited openings due to lack of fish, but when I worked them I bet you I saw more fish in one season off one commercail boat than a place like sunny shores see all year and im not 30 yet so it wasnt that long ago. A morning with 500 sox by 09:00, had a day out at the fence on the outside of swiftsure for 1200 coho. sure those were some stellar days but 2-300 sox for a day wasnt too good, 5-600 pcs and pink flyods money comes to mind
 
Finger pointing accomplishes what? Join an angling group, attend meetings, sign petitions, make your voice heard.
 
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