Treble hooks; just say no

[ericl]

Hi Englishman. Some of the research I read said the small trebles get swallowed deeper; thus being less fish friendly.
The owner of the local tackle shop was involved with the talks/negotiations with Oregon on trebles in the shared waters of the Columbia. I asked him why trebles were banned - answer "because they rip the **** outta small fish".

 

[el.Pereh]

Is 3/0 for trailer hooks on teaser rigs adequate based on other's experience? I use 4/0 but could size down if they dont straighten out

 

[fishin solo]

4/0

 

[Towney]

Lots of people on boats seem to worry more than they should about what's happening on other boats.

If it's legal, let it ride. When it's not, it's not.

 

[ericl]

If it's legal, let it ride. When it's not, it's not.

That seems to hold some of the time on this forum. Member fishdoc got lot's of flak posting pic's of his kid's w/o PDF's on & bragging about his catching 6" rockfish for fish taco's.

 

[Gear'n'beer!]

I could go for a fish taco !!

 

[floored]

The truth is that there is a lot wrong with the fisheries, but considering how much of it the Sport Fishers affect, the actions we take aren't going to save it.
Yes, singles are better for the fish because they are easier to handle, but they don't keep them on as well. And there is no study that can show what happens to those that free themselves. How many get sealed because of the attention they just brought, and exhaustion or injury?
I'm not saying that every little thing we can do won't help, but only a little. If you want to save them, get the Gov to talk Commies & Seals.

 

[aheny]

The truth is that there is a lot wrong with the fisheries, but considering how much of it the Sport Fishers affect, the actions we take aren't going to save it.
Yes, singles are better for the fish because they are easier to handle, but they don't keep them on as well. And there is no study that can show what happens to those that free themselves. How many get sealed because of the attention they just brought, and exhaustion or injury?
I'm not saying that every little thing we can do won't help, but only a little. If you want to save them, get the Gov to talk Commies & Seals.

I enjoy having friendly conversations like this with other people who are looking to tweak their technique.
And to be honest, the people who get grumpy about stuff like this, in fact the people who get grumpy about most topics on here, I often wonder if they actually ever go fishing.
It seems they are just best ignored. The rest of us can continue to have friendly conversations as we continue to tweak our techniques and change our gear to minimize our impact.
If somebody only fishes twice-a-year who really cares what they do anyway, you're never going to see them and they're not going to hook very many fish.

 

[ericl]

Certainly lot's of ways we can improve the fishery situation on our own. The impact of our positive & negative actions can be hard to quantify.
I have young Grandkid's that want to fish. I will be able to tell them i did all I could to preserve the resources for them.

Down here in WA it is illegal to remove a fish that will be released from the water. I think the Seal problem in Langara is self-inflicted; net the fish, hold it for a picture, put it back for Seal bait IMO.

 

[Englishman]

Hi Englishman. Some of the research I read said the small trebles get swallowed deeper; thus being less fish friendly.
The owner of the local tackle shop was involved with the talks/negotiations with Oregon on trebles in the shared waters of the Columbia. I asked him why trebles were banned - answer "because they rip the **** outta small fish".

Ericl. I have no doubt what you say about small trebles getting swallowed may be true in a general sense with respect to static baits (worms on hooks etc.). That quote also does not tell us whether the speaker was referring to barbed or barbless hooks. However with trolled baits where the predatory fish snatches at the bait, there is no time to swallow the bait.
So for example on hootchies I use #4 (not 4/0) (extra strong) barbless trebles. Much better holding power than singles and never damages shakers. The gape of the hook is not big enough to reach the eye, brain or gills and the small barbless hook pops out easily by hand at the boat. (I use #2 extra strong for bait and have never had a problem with hook straightening on the few biggish fish I have hooked. LOL)

P.S. This article in MS word explains very well what I am getting at (copy the link into your browser).
bursell.dk/artikler/freshwater/trebles-vs-singles-how-much-damage-9.doc

 

[Whitebuck]

EricL you are absolutely correct on the net the fish bear hug the fish for a photo. Unfortunetly these heros care more about a pic for social media than they do about health of the fish. BC has long needed a law not allowing fish you are not going to retain to be lifted out of the water!!!!

 

[bigbruce]

EricL you are absolutely correct on the net the fish bear hug the fish for a photo. Unfortunetly these heros care more about a pic for social media than they do about health of the fish. BC has long needed a law not allowing fish you are not going to retain to be lifted out of the water!!!!

Yup - that's what we need - more laws/regulations that are virtually unenforceable. I've been on the water almost every day for the past 3 weeks and have seen the DFO folks once. Properly releasing fish we're not going to keep is something most of us do as a matter of course. Unless you're prepared to pay for a couple of thousand DFO people blanketing the water to catch the idiots who don't, a law is useless.

 

[ILHG]

While we are at it let's just not fish. That's the best way to insure we don't harm a fish. Anyone caught with in 50' of a salmon should be ticketed.

Having a law that you can't take a fish out of the water if you are going to release it sounds like something they would dream up in California.

 

[ericl]

Hi Englishman. The biggest problem i have experienced with trebles is when multiple point hook the fish. Removing the hook is more tramatic, difficult, & takes longer usually necessitating netting the fish & removing it from the water. Please read the study done by DFO I posted earlier. Lot's of non-conclusive info, but clearly info showing that amount of handling & length of time outta the water result In increased mortality measured by tracking devices showing the fish dying days after being caught.
As such I personally see the data you posted as being largely not relevant to the total picture. As for the other 2 posts above, can't say on here what I think they're value is.

 

[Englishman]

Hi Englishman. The biggest problem i have experienced with trebles is when multiple point hook the fish. Removing the hook is more tramatic, difficult, & takes longer usually necessitating netting the fish & removing it from the water. Please read the study done by DFO I posted earlier. Lot's of non-conclusive info, but clearly info showing that amount of handling & length of time outta the water result In increased mortality measured by tracking devices showing the fish dying days after being caught.
As such I personally see the data you posted as being largely not relevant to the total picture. As for the other 2 posts above, can't say on here what I think they're value is.

Ericl,

I read the DFO article but as you point out in your original post it does not directly address the mortality difference between trebles and single hooks. It may only be implied if you believe that releasing a fish hooked on a treble takes longer than single. I would challenge that for small barbless trebles.

The point is the guys on here who think by using 4/0 singles they are doing less damage than my #4 trebles are mistaken. My article linked above clearly proves that and Derby makes the same point on page one of this thread not long after your post.

So my point is “just saying no” to trebles gets us nowhere if folks continue to fish with 4/0 singles, especially with respect to small fish (shakers). The spike through the eye, brain, gills is what causes “bleeders” and that is what happens with big hooks.

I will concede that you will do less damage if you use a #4 single versus my #4 treble. But I am willing to bet your singles are bigger than that….?

P.S. I just noticed you put a post up earlier stating you use a 4/0 and 5/0!! singles on anchovies. I use a single #2 treble on bait....so I guess I win my bet...LOL

 

[gunnerlove]

I though cutting the retention in half and going barbless fixed everything years ago.

 

[ericl]

First the easy one. gunnerlove, you are correct. It's just that IMO it broke again. Nothing us sporties did or didn't do, but still IMO we need to help clean-up after others if we want to continue to have a worthwhile reason to fish.

Englishman - much appreciated that you read the article. I rarely use bait. When I do it is for large spawning fish like at the mouth of the Chetco river in southern Oregon 2 years ago. You would be hard pressed to catch something under 25# & fish over 50 are caught yearly. Sort of like what the shore fishery by Ucluelet was 25-30 years ago; we never caught little one's except the odd 7-8 lb Coho, where we kept the dead one's.

It looks like things have changed since then with bait/trebles being the standard go-to in many area's where it was just reserved for the biggies years ago.

About 10 years ago I was catching some smaller Chinook, put the 4/0 siwash thru the eye of one, felt bad & moved to another spot. For me, that kill was the only hook related kill in 100 or so fish. My other small fish kills have been from dragging around a small one for too long (something I used to see constantly on the commie boats when I used to fish amongst them).

So, I am glad to see that others are having a better experience with treble hook removal than I used to.

I'd still like to see a REASONABLE explanation from a treble supporter as to why most "ocean front" states in the US, Australia & others have banned them. Could it be that some can use them & release W/O harm but the majority can't/won't. Could there be a reason you called them shakers?

 

[Blackmax]

First the easy one. gunnerlove, you are correct. It's just that IMO it broke again. Nothing us sporties did or didn't do, but still IMO we need to help clean-up after others if we want to continue to have a worthwhile reason to fish.

Englishman - much appreciated that you read the article. I rarely use bait. When I do it is for large spawning fish like at the mouth of the Chetco river in southern Oregon 2 years ago. You would be hard pressed to catch something under 25# & fish over 50 are caught yearly. Sort of like what the shore fishery by Ucluelet was 25-30 years ago; we never caught little one's except the odd 7-8 lb Coho, where we kept the dead one's.

It looks like things have changed since then with bait/trebles being the standard go-to in many area's where it was just reserved for the biggies years ago.

About 10 years ago I was catching some smaller Chinook, put the 4/0 siwash thru the eye of one, felt bad & moved to another spot. For me, that kill was the only hook related kill in 100 or so fish. My other small fish kills have been from dragging around a small one for too long (something I used to see constantly on the commie boats when I used to fish amongst them).

So, I am glad to see that others are having a better experience with treble hook removal than I used to.

I'd still like to see a REASONABLE explanation from a treble supporter as to why most "ocean front" states in the US, Australia & others have banned them. Could it be that some can use them & release W/O harm but the majority can't/won't. Could there be a reason you called them shakers?

You say most States have banned trebles ? Could you show which States those are?

 

[SpringVelocity]

If you want to be an even greater conservationist then please dont use any hooks at all! Great fun and 99% survival. But the best of the best dont fish at all and proud themselves with a clean record of 100% survival rate overall!

Use whatever hooks work for you best and unhook your fish to be released beside your boat in the water and no one can ever accuse you of doing unnecessary harm. The kind of hooks is not the problem its the fish handling where you make the difference.

Best post on this thread

 

[profisher]

I seen a boat ahead of me probably 100ft ahead bring a fish into the net. I knew before he put it in the net it was a Sockeye. Just by the way the fish acted in the water beside the boat and its size as well. It didn't do the head dive like a pink, to big for the few coho around and not scrappy enough to be a spring. Puts it in the net on the floor high fives with the others in the boat...bends over has a closer look and then I hear him say its a Sockeye. I watched to see if it was going back. Well not right away as he dug the hook out while it layed in the net on the deck then cleared his gear, put the net in the water and turned it inside out and watched the fish drift away on the surface. To the point above that goes on way to often and kills more fish than hooks do in the sport fishery.