THESE ARE MARINE HARVEST’S OWN WORDS. Re: Fish Farms

wildmanyeah said:
I don’t think removing fish farms is going to help upper Fraser chinook stocks. The restrictions were in place to pass Thoes stocks to the Fraser.
The later part of the restrictions were put into place so natives could harvest more chinook on the Fraser and according to their own reporting this year they was one of their best years for harvesting chinook in the lower Fraser.
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Correct me if I am wrong.
The Chinook closure was effective April 1.
"Apr. 1 to Jul. 14, chinook non-retention"
The Fraser River slide was later. "The slide was first discovered near Big Bar in late June,"
The Chinook Closure this year had nothing to do with the Fraser River slide!
I am of the opinion the Fish Farm Wild Salmon kill is bigger then just the Fraser.
 
fogged in said:
Correct me if I am wrong.
The Chinook closure was effective April 1.
"Apr. 1 to Jul. 14, chinook non-retention"
The Fraser River slide was later. "The slide was first discovered near Big Bar in late June,"
The Chinook Closure this year had nothing to do with the Fraser River slide!
I am of the opinion the Fish Farm Wild Salmon kill is bigger then just the Fraser.
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I’m confused where did I say the slide had anything to do with our restrictions this year.
 
wildmanyeah said:
Land based is the future and I would prefer all fish farms were on land.
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The slight of hand from activists is that closed containment would be done close to the large populations in the USA as it should be. It would be the end of salmon farming in BC.

I suspect that the annual report for investors in closed containment might look like this:

We've never done this successfully on any scale worth investing in before.
There are still risks to the environment which would cost investors in the end.
Fish health issues still do exist in closed containment which may effect profits.
The same feed sources are used in closed containment as in open pens so were screwed there too.
Power bills going to be huge.
PETA is really going to be on us for this and those PR campaigns will be damaging to image and profits.

etc etc etc.

The picture isn't really great in closed containment from and investor perspective especially with projects like ketura being such a flop. But there's always florida!

Who here is investing their hard earned money in closed containment? How much?
 
Birdsnest said:
Ya well neither was the NW pacific either.
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Thanks for pointing-out that Norway is far ahead of Canada in admitting, accepting and identifying disease risks and impacts from the open net-cage technology. As you said - it's predictable.
 
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agentaqua said:
T

Thanks for pointing-out that Norway is far ahead of Canada in admitting, accepting and identifying disease risks and impacts from the open net-cage technology. As you said - it's predictable.
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I am surprised that no one ever seems to have an opinion on how to make these industries work efficiently without bankrupting them. If you move the FF on shore and it produces salmon at $50/lb, it will never succeed. Especially since the activists directly propagandize the health risks associated with farmed salmon. The only solution is to destroy all fish farms and everything will be all fine again. Really? If you are an anti-ff advocate, why not propose measures that improve and help the ff industry such that it is working in tandem with all of your objectives?

I had a discussion with an anti-LNG gent and I asked him if he would be in favor of reducing China's green house gases by 2/3. He was all for that. I then said we should move ahead with as much LNG export terminals as possible. Methane is 1/3 as dirty as coal - the people living in Beijing will be grateful. Nope, not interested. No fossil fuels - none. Seems very similar to the FF industry. If we can find a way to address issues and fix the problems, then we should support this industry. Making things incrementally better is still better. No industry will ever be perfect, but we can keep making it better. Starting from a point that everything has to be perfect, means that we will never have anything.
 
Or...

we could use those harvested forage fishes for human consumption directly and end-up with more human food.
 
Stephen Kowalski said:
I am surprised that no one ever seems to have an opinion on how to make these industries work efficiently without bankrupting them. If you move the FF on shore and it produces salmon at $50/lb, it will never succeed. Especially since the activists directly propagandize the health risks associated with farmed salmon. The only solution is to destroy all fish farms and everything will be all fine again. Really? If you are an anti-ff advocate, why not propose measures that improve and help the ff industry such that it is working in tandem with all of your objectives?

I had a discussion with an anti-LNG gent and I asked him if he would be in favor of reducing China's green house gases by 2/3. He was all for that. I then said we should move ahead with as much LNG export terminals as possible. Methane is 1/3 as dirty as coal - the people living in Beijing will be grateful. Nope, not interested. No fossil fuels - none. Seems very similar to the FF industry. If we can find a way to address issues and fix the problems, then we should support this industry. Making things incrementally better is still better. No industry will ever be perfect, but we can keep making it better. Starting from a point that everything has to be perfect, means that we will never have anything.
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I like your line of thinking, the only stumbling block there is how do you actually deal with the primary environmental concerns that open net pen operations bring to our environment? Things like sea lice, disease, waste, water impacts? Maybe the path forward is to work with the FF industry to find on-shore closed containment methodologies that are cost effective. The present price for Chinook filets is $33/pound....somewhere in that value proposition there must be some wiggle room to eek out a profit from a closed containment system?
 
Unless we highly subsidize these industries, they won't make it on shore - not a big fan of gov't welfare. But, every time we find a problem, we should support a fix as opposed to a shut down. If FF's are poorly located and it can be correlated to some issue in the wild stocks, move them. If they can fix any issues they are creating, support the fix. I think there is a highly likely chance that if we shut down salmon farming, we will switch to salmon ranching. After reading through the news links agentaqua posted on another thread, this looks like a real doomsday scenario to me. FF's will at worst have a localized effect. Salmon ranching, if it blows up the ecosystems underneath the salmon, will destroy the salmon fishery much like the over fishing for cod did. Thanks to AA, he has shown me that many leading scientists are also really concerned. Japan, Russia and USA are hammering this system. This isn't about a bad run or two - this is end of times scenario.

So, if we shut down FF's do we jump on another treadmill? We should find a good sustainable way to do farming and get behind this industry. And, we need to find a way to stop what is happening in Alaska. Great for them that they have twice as much salmon as they did 30 years ago - this is shocking. Also great that there ranched salmon this year will exceed the entire harvests of wild salmon over the last 100 years, but another double on a double is going to impact every single salmon run we have.

BTW, super sad West Coast Resorts in Englefield Bay shut down. The Haidi's don't want to be involved in sportfishing industry anymore. Englefield Bay is the most beutifuol place on the planet - and I have seen some of the best. A shame that this will become a no go zone for the sport fishing guys.
 
When you read what the net pen fish farm lawyers state about this industry it makes one sick to their stomach. Finally some truth from this controversial industry comes out just like it has for the tobacco, oil, pharmaceutical, chemical, forestry, mining, etc... - the list goes on sadly. Time for citizens to wake up to the BS and spin doctoring that corporations spew out for the benefit first and foremost of their owners and shareholders! Typical profits over people and environment and completely unsustainable. Disgusting and shameful are some words for this!

People that support the net pen industry are not much better then those that have and are supporting other industries that put corporate profits over everything and everyone else. The good thing is that the truth most times comes out on the end - hopefully before too much damage is done. All the more for concerned citizens to fight hard to move these disease, pesticide, pollution spreading net pens (now confirmed by their lawyers) on to the land where their negative environmental impacts can be better managed.
 
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Whole in the Water said:
When you read what the net pen fish farm lawyers state about this industry it makes one sick to their stomach. Finally some truth from this controversial industry comes out just like it has for the tobacco, oil, pharmaceutical, chemical, forestry, mining, etc... - the list goes on sadly. Time for citizens to wake up to the BS and spin doctoring that corporations spew for the benefit first and foremost of their owners and shareholders! Typical profits over people and environment and completely unsustainable. Disgusting and shameful are some words for this!

People that support the net pen industry are not much better then those that have and are supporting other industries that put corporate profits over everything and everyone else. The good thing is that the truth most times comes out on the end - hopefully before too much damage is done. All the more for concerned citizens to fight hard to move these disease, pesticide, pollution spreading net pens (now confirmed by their lawyers) on to the land where their negative environmental impacts can be better managed.
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Well stated. I agree completely.
 
Once again, in Marine Harvest’s own words, the following paragraphs were taken from an entire section called Contamination:

  • “Farmed salmon may be exposed to contamination by undesirable substances through raw materials and ingredients in the feed, polluted waters, poor processing hygiene and cross contamination during handling.”
  • “Potential contaminants include organic contaminants such as dioxins and PCB (polychlorinated biphenyls), mycotoxins, pesticides, anti-oxidants (such as ethoxyquin, BHA and BHT), brominated flame retardants, inorganic contaminants such as lead, mercury, arsenic and cadmium and bacterial contamination.”
  • "Various perceived health concerns, amongst others in relation to the level of organic contaminants, cancer-causing PCB (polychlorinated biphenyls) and dioxins in farmed salmon, have attracted negative attention in the media in the past."
  • “Future accidents of product contamination could result in recall of Marine Harvest’s products, product liability, negative publicity and governmental sanctions and may have a material adverse effect on the business, financial condition, results of operations or cash flow of the Group.”
  • “Oil or petroleum products floating into a farm will severely affect the fish’s ability for normal oxygen uptake and shed an unpleasant taste on surviving fish, which practically makes the fish inedible.”
'Cancer-causing'? Practically inedible?! Does this sound like something you would feed your family?
 
 
 
Whole in the Water said:
When you read what the net pen fish farm lawyers state about this industry it makes one sick to their stomach. Finally some truth from this controversial industry comes out just like it has for the tobacco, oil, pharmaceutical, chemical, forestry, mining, etc... - the list goes on sadly. Time for citizens to wake up to the BS and spin doctoring that corporations spew out for the benefit first and foremost of their owners and shareholders! Typical profits over people and environment and completely unsustainable. Disgusting and shameful are some words for this!

People that support the net pen industry are not much better then those that have and are supporting other industries that put corporate profits over everything and everyone else. The good thing is that the truth most times comes out on the end - hopefully before too much damage is done. All the more for concerned citizens to fight hard to move these disease, pesticide, pollution spreading net pens (now confirmed by their lawyers) on to the land where their negative environmental impacts can be better managed.
Click to expand...

Really? The best time to live in this world is now. Life expectancy at all time highs and if you were born in this century, you have a fifty percent chance of living to be 100. Your rant is understandable, just not based in anything but emotions. Did you know at the end of the forties, only 100 people in the world were 100 years old. We have over 100,000 now. All of the above industries helped. Not saying we can't call them to the mat when they screw up, but you sure don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Passion is good rage is destructive.
 
fogged in said:
Correct me if I am wrong.
The Chinook closure was effective April 1.
"Apr. 1 to Jul. 14, chinook non-retention"
The Fraser River slide was later. "The slide was first discovered near Big Bar in late June,"
The Chinook Closure this year had nothing to do with the Fraser River slide!
I am of the opinion the Fish Farm Wild Salmon kill is bigger then just the Fraser.
Click to expand...
Glad u stated it as opinion and not fact. This is why all these threads are so crazy, no one moves the needle because of facts. It is all about what I think is best. Come on, we know fish farms have issues but we also know they are not having the exaggerated effect on wild fish stocks. Eliminate FF's and u are left with: climate change, habitat destruction, over fishing, seal population explosion, Alaskan salmon ranching..... in my opinion (see how I did that) shutting down FF's will have negligible impact on wild salmon stocks, but will put another 5000 people out of work. Why not start a go fund me campaign to help those folks you plan on displacing because it sure isn't going to solve the salmon issues.
 
There is no marine harvest on our coast .They closed up shop and started a new company.what is left from there industrius activity hasen't been cleaned up after themselves.
 
Stephen Kowalski said:
rant is understandable, just not based in anything but emotions
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LOL, one could easily say the same for your "rant"!

Do you want a list of all the examples of corporate corruption and influence over the years? YES there should be passion, anger and even rage over corruption! If there wasn't where would accountability, consequences and justice be in our society? History has shown again and again that it has been the actions of concerned individuals that have fought against corruption in all its forms that have brought about positive, needed changes in the world. What has not brought about these needed changes is people saying we should not question things too much because we have it pretty good now.

No one is throwing the baby out with the bathwater, just pointing out obvious, ongoing corruption and environmental damage that needs to be stopped. Your opinion (supported with a few selected bits of data) that now is the best time to live in history is just that - an opinion, one of many that could be made. Ask the millions in the world today that do not have enough food, money, housing, education, employment, basic human rights, protection from injustice, abuse, slavery and war, etc, if they agree with your opinion if this is the best time in human history to live? I am sure that they could back up their "emotions" on this with lots of documented facts if needed if they answered no. Yes in many ways life is better now than ever (my opinion), but one could also argue with facts (not emotion) that in some ways life is also not so good now. Passion is good, ignorance and inattention of corruption is destructive. My 2 bits.
 
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yep.it's killem with kindness .tourism force rules the earth.wit beyond measure will have you at bay or in jail .We are going to be ...thinking what is right for fish camps around our province? and if those hostles are going to let those in.
 
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