Charlie
Well-Known Member
If you are trolling and picking up dogfish, with or without scent - you might want to speed up a tad bit?
Not saying anyone needs or does not need to use any commercially produced scent. That is something based on individuals and conditions, but it might be wise to read up on L-lysine and other amino acids and how they will affect salmon?
Remember, someone is paying for that high cost of marketing. Of course, they want you to soak, fill, spray, douse, inject, and use lots of scent products! If trolling for “salmon,” that really isn’t necessary and is not how it works. The salmon olfactory system has one of the, if not the keenest, and is very sensitivity to amino acids. That is indeed how it finds its way home, but that is not the principle sense used to find food! That would be its lateral line, first! Followed by sight and smell.
L-lysine is an amino acid naturally excreted by your body and is on your hands. Depending on the individual – will determine how much scent you have and are putting on your gear (and bait). It has been proven, many times over, it repels salmon. It will even stop them from migrating or entering their natal waters. Salmon are very sensitive to L-lysine and amino acids, but those scents wash off – so basically the best thing to do, wash our hands! It is better to get rid of them – than mask them.
If you want to save yourself some money, get some ordinary soap and wash your hands and gear. If you still have problems, get out the surgical gloves. Washing gear with ordinary dish soap is really normally all required to remove any amino acid scent. Salmon are still subject to distinguish from very, very, very, minute traces of all amino acids on the gear (especially L-lysine) and that is still subject to repel.
The other way to save some money that really works is just use any scent as a hand lotion (after washing your hands) and you will find yourselves saving much money and getting the same results as if you were dousing the bait with those Fish Attractants! Presentation of the bait is the MOST IMPORTANT!
Here’s is some other thoughts on scents. The primary base of all commercial scent products is different oils. They do have other ingredients to make them stick to the gear (such as Vaseline). I have used and I personally will never use any type of “scent bag” again for salmon! I personally have found that useless! I will probably never purchase another commercially produced scent, again! I have found it is a not needed expense; however, with that statement on my boat you will always find dish soap (usually Dawn and Joy), bar soap (usually Dove and Ivory), and many different types of oil (always garlic oil). And, yes, I do wash my hands, gear, and use different oils as a hand lotion. Every scent I use on my boat is purchased from the cheapest source I can find (usually grocery stores). The only thing I would recommend is use Pure Oils when possible, they work great. You can use Extracts, but watch extracts that are alcohol based, such as Anise Oil extract (not good). The most popular oils are Herring, Sardine, Anchovy, Anise (again, not Anise extract), and Shrimp. If not in your local grocery or health store, they can be purchased over the internet at about have the cost of commercial scents and they do work just as good. Don’t worry about the expiration dates, but buy in quantities to avoid becoming rancid (that is about the only reason to buy commercial scents).
Not saying anyone needs or does not need to use any commercially produced scent. That is something based on individuals and conditions, but it might be wise to read up on L-lysine and other amino acids and how they will affect salmon?
Remember, someone is paying for that high cost of marketing. Of course, they want you to soak, fill, spray, douse, inject, and use lots of scent products! If trolling for “salmon,” that really isn’t necessary and is not how it works. The salmon olfactory system has one of the, if not the keenest, and is very sensitivity to amino acids. That is indeed how it finds its way home, but that is not the principle sense used to find food! That would be its lateral line, first! Followed by sight and smell.
L-lysine is an amino acid naturally excreted by your body and is on your hands. Depending on the individual – will determine how much scent you have and are putting on your gear (and bait). It has been proven, many times over, it repels salmon. It will even stop them from migrating or entering their natal waters. Salmon are very sensitive to L-lysine and amino acids, but those scents wash off – so basically the best thing to do, wash our hands! It is better to get rid of them – than mask them.
If you want to save yourself some money, get some ordinary soap and wash your hands and gear. If you still have problems, get out the surgical gloves. Washing gear with ordinary dish soap is really normally all required to remove any amino acid scent. Salmon are still subject to distinguish from very, very, very, minute traces of all amino acids on the gear (especially L-lysine) and that is still subject to repel.
The other way to save some money that really works is just use any scent as a hand lotion (after washing your hands) and you will find yourselves saving much money and getting the same results as if you were dousing the bait with those Fish Attractants! Presentation of the bait is the MOST IMPORTANT!
Here’s is some other thoughts on scents. The primary base of all commercial scent products is different oils. They do have other ingredients to make them stick to the gear (such as Vaseline). I have used and I personally will never use any type of “scent bag” again for salmon! I personally have found that useless! I will probably never purchase another commercially produced scent, again! I have found it is a not needed expense; however, with that statement on my boat you will always find dish soap (usually Dawn and Joy), bar soap (usually Dove and Ivory), and many different types of oil (always garlic oil). And, yes, I do wash my hands, gear, and use different oils as a hand lotion. Every scent I use on my boat is purchased from the cheapest source I can find (usually grocery stores). The only thing I would recommend is use Pure Oils when possible, they work great. You can use Extracts, but watch extracts that are alcohol based, such as Anise Oil extract (not good). The most popular oils are Herring, Sardine, Anchovy, Anise (again, not Anise extract), and Shrimp. If not in your local grocery or health store, they can be purchased over the internet at about have the cost of commercial scents and they do work just as good. Don’t worry about the expiration dates, but buy in quantities to avoid becoming rancid (that is about the only reason to buy commercial scents).
Last edited by a moderator:
Fish-Hunter
Active Member
it was mentioned above. i have heard of it being used, but it is a petroleum product riight? I haven't looked it up to see what it is made from. I would have thought that using clean bait should work well enough. Putting oil products on bait... wouldn't that taste like well oil?? Certainly would not put it on my sandwich before eating it! have to do some diggin on this one.
Charlie
Well-Known Member
Ay... the good 'ole' WD-40, again! 
WD-40 is not based on fish oil! The governments of Canada, U.S. and plus the WD-40 Company itself, just might have to disagree with the fish oil comments. It is, and has always been a petroleum-based product! There has never been any fish oil used in the production of WD-40 – ever, and they have not changed the ingredients since invented in 1953:
“It took them 40 attempts to get the water displacing formula worked out. But they must have been really good, because the original secret formula for WD-40®—which stands for Water Displacement perfected on the 40th try—is still in use today.”
http://www.wd40.com/about-us/history/
And nah… WD-40 does NOT attract fish!
However, what it does do is mask all those bad offensive amino acid scents you get on your lures and baits. One thing to remember is while WD-40 is masking YOUR bad scents, it is also masking ALL those good scents of any bait or even those scents you paid good money for. What are you guys thinking there? Pay money for anchovies - then spray them with WD-40, really doesn’t make good since to me? I have found Garlic, Anchovy, and Herring oils all work better and they not only work better, they are also legal! J
With that, I do use and spray WD-40 on all gear, but do keep it away from any natural baits. If some gets on my lures that is fine and yes, I do spray spoons, plugs, and about everythng else after I wash, prior to storing.
Stoddard Solvent
Myth: WD-40 contains Stoddard Solvent.
Fact:
Over the past few decades, the name Stoddard Solvent was synonymous with all mineral spirits. Today, the mineral spirits found in products like ours are more refined and processed (see hydrogenation, hydrotreating and distillation techniques) providing mixtures with varying boiling points, cleaning ability, and chemical composition. The catchall phrase “Stoddard Solvent” is no longer adequate to tell the proper story. WD-40 does indeed have 50% mineral spirits, but they are refined and purified for specific characteristics needed to meet today’s performance, regulatory, and safety requirements.
What a Fish story!
Myth: WD-40 contains fish oil.
Fact:
Consumers have told us over the years that they have caught some of the biggest fish ever after protecting their fish hooks and lures with WD-40. We believe this legend came from folks assuming that the product must contain fish oil since it appears to attract fish. Sorry Charlie®, it just ain’t so. WD-40 Company has taken steps to respect and conserve the environment, and encourages its users to do the same. While WD-40 can be used to help protect fishing equipment from rust and corrosion, WD-40 Company does not recommend using WD-40 to attract fish. (Inserted – that would be illegal. J)
http://www.wd40.com/about-us/myths-legends-fun-facts/
Apparently Canada does not require the ‘LVP Aliphatic Hydrocarbonless,’ which is ‘Hydrotreated Light Distillates (petroleum)’ broken out from the stated ‘Petroleum Base Oil’ content?
WD-40 MSDS: J
In Canada: Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates 45-50%; Petroleum Base Oil 30-35%; Non-Hazardous Ingredients Proprietary <10%; Surfactant Proprietary <2%; Carbon Dioxide 2-3%
In U.S.: Aliphatic Hydrocarbon 45-50%; Petroleum Base Oil <25%: LVP Aliphatic Hydrocarbon 12-18%; Carbon Dioxide 2-3%; Surfactant Proprietary <2%; Non-Hazardous Ingredients <10%
http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd447382569.pdf
http://www.wd40.com/files/pdf/msds-wd494716385.pdf
WD-40 is not based on fish oil! The governments of Canada, U.S. and plus the WD-40 Company itself, just might have to disagree with the fish oil comments. It is, and has always been a petroleum-based product! There has never been any fish oil used in the production of WD-40 – ever, and they have not changed the ingredients since invented in 1953:
“It took them 40 attempts to get the water displacing formula worked out. But they must have been really good, because the original secret formula for WD-40®—which stands for Water Displacement perfected on the 40th try—is still in use today.”
http://www.wd40.com/about-us/history/
And nah… WD-40 does NOT attract fish!
However, what it does do is mask all those bad offensive amino acid scents you get on your lures and baits. One thing to remember is while WD-40 is masking YOUR bad scents, it is also masking ALL those good scents of any bait or even those scents you paid good money for. What are you guys thinking there? Pay money for anchovies - then spray them with WD-40, really doesn’t make good since to me?
I have found Garlic, Anchovy, and Herring oils all work better and they not only work better, they are also legal! JWith that, I do use and spray WD-40 on all gear, but do keep it away from any natural baits. If some gets on my lures that is fine and yes, I do spray spoons, plugs, and about everythng else after I wash, prior to storing.
Stoddard Solvent
Myth: WD-40 contains Stoddard Solvent.
Fact:
Over the past few decades, the name Stoddard Solvent was synonymous with all mineral spirits. Today, the mineral spirits found in products like ours are more refined and processed (see hydrogenation, hydrotreating and distillation techniques) providing mixtures with varying boiling points, cleaning ability, and chemical composition. The catchall phrase “Stoddard Solvent” is no longer adequate to tell the proper story. WD-40 does indeed have 50% mineral spirits, but they are refined and purified for specific characteristics needed to meet today’s performance, regulatory, and safety requirements.
What a Fish story!
Myth: WD-40 contains fish oil.
Fact:
Consumers have told us over the years that they have caught some of the biggest fish ever after protecting their fish hooks and lures with WD-40. We believe this legend came from folks assuming that the product must contain fish oil since it appears to attract fish. Sorry Charlie®, it just ain’t so. WD-40 Company has taken steps to respect and conserve the environment, and encourages its users to do the same. While WD-40 can be used to help protect fishing equipment from rust and corrosion, WD-40 Company does not recommend using WD-40 to attract fish. (Inserted – that would be illegal. J)
http://www.wd40.com/about-us/myths-legends-fun-facts/
Apparently Canada does not require the ‘LVP Aliphatic Hydrocarbonless,’ which is ‘Hydrotreated Light Distillates (petroleum)’ broken out from the stated ‘Petroleum Base Oil’ content?
WD-40 MSDS: J
In Canada: Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates 45-50%; Petroleum Base Oil 30-35%; Non-Hazardous Ingredients Proprietary <10%; Surfactant Proprietary <2%; Carbon Dioxide 2-3%
In U.S.: Aliphatic Hydrocarbon 45-50%; Petroleum Base Oil <25%: LVP Aliphatic Hydrocarbon 12-18%; Carbon Dioxide 2-3%; Surfactant Proprietary <2%; Non-Hazardous Ingredients <10%
http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd447382569.pdf
http://www.wd40.com/files/pdf/msds-wd494716385.pdf
Steelhead S2
Active Member
Picking up on what Charlie said a few posts up, I try to un-scent my gear more consistently that I try to scent it, at least when it comes to salmon and steelers. I picked up a lanolin soap marketed towards sportsmen last summer, and I rub a little on before handling any terminal gear. However, there is no indication that it helps. Makes me feel better though.
Fish-Hunter
Active Member
Charlie, Thank-you In my gut I had suspected what you describe above. Man you are a wealth of knowledge! Thanks for your input you just saved me a lot of diggin on the net.
"I have found Garlic, Anchovy, and Herring oils all work better and they not only work better, they are also legal!" J
Do you know if the these oils are also only masking our scent "Amino Acids", or are they known to or have you found that they do in fact attract fish?
Thanks,
Jay
In my gut I had suspected what you describe above. Man you are a wealth of knowledge! Thanks for your input you just saved me a lot of diggin on the net."I have found Garlic, Anchovy, and Herring oils all work better and they not only work better, they are also legal!" J
Do you know if the these oils are also only masking our scent "Amino Acids", or are they known to or have you found that they do in fact attract fish?
Thanks,
Jay
Charlie
Well-Known Member
The oils only mask. The success of any scent depends mostly on the amount of L-serine or other bad odors you have put on your gear. Do not confuse what “attracts” and what “repels” salmon, or the different eating habits of trout (Steelhead) and salmon! All trout will use the sense of smell and follow a sent trail for food, especially in a lake. Salmon primarily use their lateral line (that attracts), then sight (that attracts), then just before striking (3-5 feet), if there is an offensive odor, especially your L-serine (that will repel). That is either saltwater or freshwater, actively feeding or not. In that sense those scents will entice, rather than repel the actual strike. IF, by some chance one was to use scent from their home waters, I think it safe to say – that would be the only time smell will attract migrating salmon, but good luck on that one. J
Salmon actually stop feeding prior to entering freshwater, they use their sense of smell to find their way home and any L-serine will stop them dead in their tracts, in both freshwater and saltwater. Adult salmon migrating back do not feed in freshwater and only strike out of instinct. Salmon do not actively feed throughout the day, the PRESENTATION IS CRITICAL for attracting any non-feeding salmon migrating or not!
Just want to point out; we are talking trolling for salmon and not fishing in lakes or streams for trout! There are differences between salmon and trout (Steelhead) in the way they find food and feeding habits! If you are lake or river fishing for trout and/or Steelhead, I would highly suggest reading ‘Trout: The Complete Guide to Catching Trout with Flies, Artificial Lures and Live Bait (The Freshwater Angler)’ by Dick Sternberg. There is a lot of good information in that book! J
Ay... the good 'ole' WD-40, again!
WD-40 is not based on fish oil! The governments of Canada, U.S. and plus the WD-40 Company itself, just might have to disagree with the fish oil comments. It is, and has always been a petroleum-based product! There has never been any fish oil used in the production of WD-40 – ever, and they have not changed the ingredients since invented in 1953:
“It took them 40 attempts to get the water displacing formula worked out. But they must have been really good, because the original secret formula for WD-40®—which stands for Water Displacement perfected on the 40th try—is still in use today.”
http://www.wd40.com/about-us/history/
And nah… WD-40 does NOT attract fish!
However, what it does do is mask all those bad offensive amino acid scents you get on your lures and baits. One thing to remember is while WD-40 is masking YOUR bad scents, it is also masking ALL those good scents of any bait or even those scents you paid good money for. What are you guys thinking there? Pay money for anchovies - then spray them with WD-40, really doesn’t make good since to me?
With that, I do use and spray WD-40 on all gear, but do keep it away from any natural baits. If some gets on my lures that is fine and yes, I do spray spoons, plugs, and about everythng else after I wash, prior to storing.
Stoddard Solvent
Myth: WD-40 contains Stoddard Solvent.
Fact:
Over the past few decades, the name Stoddard Solvent was synonymous with all mineral spirits. Today, the mineral spirits found in products like ours are more refined and processed (see hydrogenation, hydrotreating and distillation techniques) providing mixtures with varying boiling points, cleaning ability, and chemical composition. The catchall phrase “Stoddard Solvent” is no longer adequate to tell the proper story. WD-40 does indeed have 50% mineral spirits, but they are refined and purified for specific characteristics needed to meet today’s performance, regulatory, and safety requirements.
What a Fish story!
Myth: WD-40 contains fish oil.
Fact:
Consumers have told us over the years that they have caught some of the biggest fish ever after protecting their fish hooks and lures with WD-40. We believe this legend came from folks assuming that the product must contain fish oil since it appears to attract fish. Sorry Charlie®, it just ain’t so. WD-40 Company has taken steps to respect and conserve the environment, and encourages its users to do the same. While WD-40 can be used to help protect fishing equipment from rust and corrosion, WD-40 Company does not recommend using WD-40 to attract fish. (Inserted – that would be illegal. J)
http://www.wd40.com/about-us/myths-legends-fun-facts/
Apparently Canada does not require the ‘LVP Aliphatic Hydrocarbonless,’ which is ‘Hydrotreated Light Distillates (petroleum)’ broken out from the stated ‘Petroleum Base Oil’ content?
WD-40 MSDS: J
In Canada: Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates 45-50%; Petroleum Base Oil 30-35%; Non-Hazardous Ingredients Proprietary <10%; Surfactant Proprietary <2%; Carbon Dioxide 2-3%
In U.S.: Aliphatic Hydrocarbon 45-50%; Petroleum Base Oil <25%: LVP Aliphatic Hydrocarbon 12-18%; Carbon Dioxide 2-3%; Surfactant Proprietary <2%; Non-Hazardous Ingredients <10%
http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd447382569.pdf
http://www.wd40.com/files/pdf/msds-wd494716385.pdf
Can say what you want about the stuff but I have been fishing longer than most and I am 110% sure that WD-40 increases my success rate significantly.
This fact was substantiated up at Langara this past summer. I packed a small bottle and there was a clear increase with cut plugs eatten by chinook sprayed with the stuff.
I don't pretend to know the science behind it but the stuff works/helps big time.
Charlie
Well-Known Member
Sheesh, isn’t life grand? That is a tad bit of a strong reply there, isn't it?
Well, I guess that pretty much proves some can fish “longer than most” be “110% sure” and after years, not really know or have a clue - on what they are talking about, doesn’t it? WD-40 just might increase your “rate significantly”; however, had you read those posts a little closer… I believe they clearly state WD-40 will “mask” all your stink!
Now here I am trying to provide good, solid, valid, provable advice and information. Then here you come and with, “Can say what you want” and then go on to state how you have been and are violating regulations (that would by the Fisheries Act), for all these years. Then go on and in essence, suggest it is okay for everyone to do that? How many years did you say you have been violating the laws and polluting? Yes, It is ILLEGAL, what part of that did you miss or not understand? If you read those ingredients again, I believe that was up to approximately 85%, total “PETROLEUM OIL!” So, let’s see if I got your facts right? You are stating it is okay to "break laws," "pollute waters", and eat "petroleum oil polluted fish"! You are 110% sure of that! Yep, you surely don’t have to “pretend to know” or not know any science, but could you at least stay within regulations?
BTW, rather than posting that… you could just call DFO and let them know when and where to meet. Better yet, just give them your address and maybe they will just mail you, your tickets? That would be one violation - per occurrence! Oh, they will also take all those fish you polluted!
Have a great day and... Enjoy those fish!
Oh forgot, I am sure everyone will be glad to know my grandkids still believe in Santa Clause.
trophywife
Crew Member
LMFAO,,, good on ya charlie, once again
good on ya charlie, once again
ratherbefishing
Well-Known Member
Not sure who did what is who's cornflakes here and while I don't believe two wrongs make a right but give your head a shake...all the WD that a person uses in a lifetime pales in comparison to the hydrocarbons emitted by most older two stroke engines that do not burn all of the fuel and oil. At a generous 80% fuel burn efficiency on some of the older engines, and an big run offshore...you do the math on the the amount of oil and fuel dumped into the ocean. Food for thought...
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
"If trolling for “salmon,” that really isn’t necessary and is not how it works. The salmon olfactory system has one of the, if not the keenest, and is very sensitivity to amino acids. That is indeed how it finds its way home, but that is not the principle sense used to find food! That would be its lateral line, first! Followed by sight and smell."
Charlie. I agree with you on the use of scents to mask human amino acids as worthwhile. I also agree that the lateral line and sight is very important to attracting salmon to the hook. There is research to support both these assertions. But I am wondering about how you downplay the importance of smell.
Do you have any documented research that clearly supports your assertion that smell is the least important (other than masking human scents) and does little to increase one's chances of catching salmon? As you say "The salmon olfactory system has one of the, if not the keenest". Smell is used to attract many other fish species, what makes salmon so different?
Charlie. I agree with you on the use of scents to mask human amino acids as worthwhile. I also agree that the lateral line and sight is very important to attracting salmon to the hook. There is research to support both these assertions. But I am wondering about how you downplay the importance of smell.
Do you have any documented research that clearly supports your assertion that smell is the least important (other than masking human scents) and does little to increase one's chances of catching salmon? As you say "The salmon olfactory system has one of the, if not the keenest". Smell is used to attract many other fish species, what makes salmon so different?
Steelhead S2
Active Member
Not to mention all the other bits of crap, like cigarette butts and wrappers, bits of line and plastic gear and lead either tossed or lost on breakoffs, bilge oil, bottles and cans, lubes washing off lures applied for whatever reason. Spraying WD40 into the ocean seems a little misguided, even if it does produce the occasional hook-up. But I believe that this thread was asking about what different people use or don't use on their gear. One person said WD40 does not work, another said it does, and now the wheels are coming off. You post lots of intelligent and thoughtful material on here Charlie, but I don't think JO's response was particularly "strong". Just a little disagreement. And besides that, you said yourself you spray WD40 on all your gear, so what's the difference. The ocean and the wildlife don't care about your intent, the petroleum in the water is the problem (your problem too, I gather). Also, it seems like we are splitting hairs by arguing about whether a particular product attracts fish whether it masks other odors that repel them. Either way, it seems like smell is important for hooking fish, regardless of the effect on the salmon psychology. Whether masking or attracting, the effect we all want to have is "yum yum, OUCH! I'M OUTTA HERE!!!"
I was out one day with a couple buddies, and every time one of them took a leak we hooked up. Got to the point the rest of us basically forced him to squeeze a few drops out every time things got slow, and by god it worked! Every freaking time! So did his urine attract strikes? Probably not. Did it mask smells? Probably not. Was it just some weird coincidence? Probably. Am I 110% sure it worked? Absolutely! Does this matter? No.
I was out one day with a couple buddies, and every time one of them took a leak we hooked up. Got to the point the rest of us basically forced him to squeeze a few drops out every time things got slow, and by god it worked! Every freaking time! So did his urine attract strikes? Probably not. Did it mask smells? Probably not. Was it just some weird coincidence? Probably. Am I 110% sure it worked? Absolutely! Does this matter? No.
Reel Knotty
Member
Heck ya! First thing my girlfriend/fishing parter says after we drop lines is "Go Pee!" I can't count how many hook ups with (extra) gear hanging over the side of the boat we've had. I'd do it on my tackle if I thought it was a scent issue, but I think it's the fish realizing I'm busy elsewhere and it's a good time to bite.
hmm guess I got to sit back and wait for the ultra light rod jokes now eh??
spring fever
Well-Known Member
You want to start a real controversy and suggest that a women touching your bait (keep it clean) or spoons,hootchies may produce more fish because of the fermones she produces. Certainly seems to work on my boat because my wife's rod is which ever rod has a fish on. LOL
Barnacle Bill
Well-Known Member
Wow, some good comments and some not so good. I do belive that some scents will Mask our human sent and will help. What I don't belive, is, how someone can give 110% and how some people can go "Over and Out", on the radio? Sorry for the rant, but feel better already..................BB
Rum Buddies
Well-Known Member
Ha - hit the nail on the head with that one!
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