Barman
Active Member
Map and Sonar data is shared via ethernet. There are exceptions, some Simrad Go units have an ethernet port, but functions of the port are restricted which is why it is a lower cost unit.
New Sonar Sounder/Chart Plotter Recommendations
- Thread starter Chasin' Dreams
- Start date
Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
Very good deal on the reman Lowrance HDS 12 Live on that website right now. Wondering, when you bought your HDS Live did it come with a transducer or did you have to buy that separately? I'm reading the description on the add on their website and it says "sonar ready" and doesn't list a transducer in the "package includes" description. https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=6953159
Barman
Active Member
I could buy mine either way. I don't think that one has a transducer as the model number matches this no transducer model on the Lowrance website.
https://www.lowrance.com/en-ca/lowrance/type/fishfinders-chartplotters/hds-12-live-amer-noxd/
Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
Ok ya I thought so as the others in the reman list say they have the transducers with them. Do you have the 3-1 transducer for your HDS Live? If so how do you like it?
Barman
Active Member
I don't really have a fair comparison as I use the 9 inch HDS Live with the 3-1 transducer on my freshwater boat. Then use the head unit out back on my second station of my saltwater boat.
The 3-1 is great in freshwater, how that translates to the salt I'm not sure.
CBsqrd
Well-Known Member
Good answers from @Barman and @Sharphooks on networking, so just a couple things to add in case there are still questions.
When I repowered this spring I added a Mercury VesselView 9", which is a rebadged Simrad GO9XSE. That replaced an older Garmin 5208 that was pretty much only used for showing fuel burn on the old Yamahas (via the NMEA2000 Can Bus network - aka N2K). My main plotter is a Furuno TZTouch 14 connected to radar, DFF1-UHD, and DFF3D sounder over ethernet, with a GPS and a Garmin autopilot originally installed over a separate N2K network from the old Garmin. As part of the repower, I put everything on the same N2K network and added an N2K VHF and Fusion Stereo. So bit of a mix and match system, but everything works great.
When it comes to compatibility, N2K is a standard and any data provided by a "talker" on the network can be received by a "listener" with no compatibility issues. So for example, the Garmin autopilot can receive route information from either Furuno or Simrad (or other brand), and things like water temp from Furuno can be displayed on the Simrad unit.
On the other hand, the ethernet networks are brand specific and are not compatible with each other. If you are going to install a Simrad unit, a call to their tech support to make sure it is compatible with your Lowrance plotter would not be a waste of time. I'm pretty sure that since they are both Navico products you won't have in issue if you go that route, but I'd want to be 100% sure before pulling the trigger. Also, as @Barman mentioned, the Simrad Go series does have an ethernet port, but it has limited functionality (radar and SiriusXM weather) - something to be aware of if you are leaning towards one of those or the equivalent Lowrance unit. You should be fine if you stick with and HDS.
It looks like you have a spare ethernet port on the back of you current HDS that you can use to connect to your second head unit. It might worth considering adding a hub if you start running out of room.
As @Sharphooks mentioned, the Mareton (and Anchor) N2K tees have a different orientation than the Garmin tees when complicates their mounting. There are all perfectly compatible in terms of sharing info over the network, but the orientation of the cables out the bottom is off by about 30 degrees, so you can't mount everything flat if you mix in Garmin with the other tees. Anchor makes a 2- and 4-way tee connectors that helps to keep the backbone compact - you can also add standalone tees if you need to expand. You can find them on Amazon here: https://tinyurl.com/y6scguyj
@Sharphooks also mentioned have his second N2K network powered separately - key-on power in his case - from the other which I assume was powered through the electronics bus. Its worth adding that you can get a power isolator tee that allows separate power, i.e. key-on and electronics bus, to two independent parts of the network, but still allows all information to be shared over the entire network.
As @Barman said, for your speed discrepancy issue, check where your headunit is pulling the GPS data from - it could be either the built in GPS, the Lowrance GPS puck (if installed) or the AIS GPS.
Finally, with regards to the Lowrance side scan transducer, check out these threads:
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...ets-talk-transducers.78794/page-2#post-968052
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/3d-structure-scan.68086/
I think you'll be disappointed with the performance in salt water. Not sure which transducer you have on your boat now, but your money will probably be better spent adding a SS175HW, TM185HW, TM275LHW or P66 if you don't have one of those already installed. If you have one of those and you wanted something more targetted towards bottom fishing, then a narrow beam medium chirp transducer like a TM185M would be my next choice.
When I repowered this spring I added a Mercury VesselView 9", which is a rebadged Simrad GO9XSE. That replaced an older Garmin 5208 that was pretty much only used for showing fuel burn on the old Yamahas (via the NMEA2000 Can Bus network - aka N2K). My main plotter is a Furuno TZTouch 14 connected to radar, DFF1-UHD, and DFF3D sounder over ethernet, with a GPS and a Garmin autopilot originally installed over a separate N2K network from the old Garmin. As part of the repower, I put everything on the same N2K network and added an N2K VHF and Fusion Stereo. So bit of a mix and match system, but everything works great.
When it comes to compatibility, N2K is a standard and any data provided by a "talker" on the network can be received by a "listener" with no compatibility issues. So for example, the Garmin autopilot can receive route information from either Furuno or Simrad (or other brand), and things like water temp from Furuno can be displayed on the Simrad unit.
On the other hand, the ethernet networks are brand specific and are not compatible with each other. If you are going to install a Simrad unit, a call to their tech support to make sure it is compatible with your Lowrance plotter would not be a waste of time. I'm pretty sure that since they are both Navico products you won't have in issue if you go that route, but I'd want to be 100% sure before pulling the trigger. Also, as @Barman mentioned, the Simrad Go series does have an ethernet port, but it has limited functionality (radar and SiriusXM weather) - something to be aware of if you are leaning towards one of those or the equivalent Lowrance unit. You should be fine if you stick with and HDS.
It looks like you have a spare ethernet port on the back of you current HDS that you can use to connect to your second head unit. It might worth considering adding a hub if you start running out of room.
As @Sharphooks mentioned, the Mareton (and Anchor) N2K tees have a different orientation than the Garmin tees when complicates their mounting. There are all perfectly compatible in terms of sharing info over the network, but the orientation of the cables out the bottom is off by about 30 degrees, so you can't mount everything flat if you mix in Garmin with the other tees. Anchor makes a 2- and 4-way tee connectors that helps to keep the backbone compact - you can also add standalone tees if you need to expand. You can find them on Amazon here: https://tinyurl.com/y6scguyj
@Sharphooks also mentioned have his second N2K network powered separately - key-on power in his case - from the other which I assume was powered through the electronics bus. Its worth adding that you can get a power isolator tee that allows separate power, i.e. key-on and electronics bus, to two independent parts of the network, but still allows all information to be shared over the entire network.
As @Barman said, for your speed discrepancy issue, check where your headunit is pulling the GPS data from - it could be either the built in GPS, the Lowrance GPS puck (if installed) or the AIS GPS.
Finally, with regards to the Lowrance side scan transducer, check out these threads:
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...ets-talk-transducers.78794/page-2#post-968052
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/3d-structure-scan.68086/
I think you'll be disappointed with the performance in salt water. Not sure which transducer you have on your boat now, but your money will probably be better spent adding a SS175HW, TM185HW, TM275LHW or P66 if you don't have one of those already installed. If you have one of those and you wanted something more targetted towards bottom fishing, then a narrow beam medium chirp transducer like a TM185M would be my next choice.
Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
Excellent info thank you CBsqrd. I'll look over those threads you linked and Yes I'm pretty sure I'll be going with another Lowrance or Simrad and I'll make sure everything is compatible first. And I'll check my settings on my AIS and plotter and see where the interference/discrepancy is coming from regarding the speed. The transducer that came with my HDS 12 Gen 2 is the Skimmer HST-WSBL. Would really like to upgrade this transducer. Something with structure scan type imaging. I'm gonna have to research all the transducers you listed. I really have no idea what the advantages/disadvantages are of one over the other. I'd like a new one for the front unit and pick a good one to come with the new rear unit.
walleyes
Crew Member
Hummingbird has a pretty simple set up for multiple units. Using their 5 port Ethernet switch as it says you can run up to 5 inputs off of it and if wanted You can link the switches together and have even more. Pretty simple and fool proof system. Of course you have to make sure and get units that are compatible and can network. In my new boat I’m running the Helix models, currently have the Helix 7 DS GPS G3N with NAV + for the rear unit and am going to link it with the Helix 10 CHIRP G3N for my inside unit will link 2 units too one transducer and CHIRP radar all though the the Ethernet switch. Pretty straight forward on the cable but you do have to buy cross over cables to link into the switch. But it’s all pretty simple plug and play stuff.
Barman
Active Member
Good info from CBsqrd. I'll try to add to it. I have a Simrad Evo 2, and an Evo 3, all networked with an HDS Live. The Lowrance or Simrad ethernet cables work between these units. Plug and play.
For transducers, I have the Tm 275 LHW, I never use the low setting, first I can hear the low setting when its on , it's best for deeper water, but I can track bottom on the high setting to 1000ft at cruise speed (30mph), and in the waters I run, this is more than enough. If I was to do it all over, a TM185HW would be my choice.
For transducers, I have the Tm 275 LHW, I never use the low setting, first I can hear the low setting when its on , it's best for deeper water, but I can track bottom on the high setting to 1000ft at cruise speed (30mph), and in the waters I run, this is more than enough. If I was to do it all over, a TM185HW would be my choice.
I researched side scan for about 2 years; I am about to install Furuno DFF3D. It is a VERY expensive option. Talked to reps at boat shows, scoured forums & came to the conclusion that other than Furuno, side scan was good to about 100ft - Furuno uses a 160 Khz frequency the rest are at 400 Khz & above; too high for deep penetration.
If you install a second transducer, care on selection must be taken in ensure the 2 ducers do not interfere with each other. If it were me I'd stay with 1 ducer & screen-share; you could use an iPad for this but the iPad would not be good in direct sunlight.
If you install a second transducer, care on selection must be taken in ensure the 2 ducers do not interfere with each other. If it were me I'd stay with 1 ducer & screen-share; you could use an iPad for this but the iPad would not be good in direct sunlight.
Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
After looking into the side scan I think I won't worry about it for now. I'm going to go with either the TM275LHW or the TM185HW as recommended by others. It sure sounds like these are very well suited for the kind of fishing we do here on the coast of BC in the salt chuck.
I put a call into Lowrance this morning tech support to ask a couple questions.
If I go with the new Lowrance HDS Live 12" it says it's capable of 1000W CHIRP transducers but my front helm Lowrance HDS gen 2 unit is not. It is only a 600 watt unit and I read that I would have to use a sonar hub if I wanted that front gen 2 unit to "see" chirp functions of a transducer. So I asked Lowrance tech support if that new rear HDS Live unit would be acting as a "sonar hub" to share the chirp abilities of the new 185 transducer with the front unit. I would disconnect the front transducer just to make sure they don't interfere with each other. It is a very sub par transducer anyways being only 300W. He said yes by hooking them together with the ethernet cable like others have told me here on the forum the HDS Live will act as the sonar hub. The front gen 2 unit does have a "chirp" selection in it's menu but like mentioned above it normally would need to have the sonar hub used to be able to use that function, so now it will be able to take advantage of that new HDS Live unit's ability to use the chirp transducer and share the info with the front one.
So I just have to decide on the transducer I'm going to go with. He also suggested the 275LH but I mentioned to him that someone else mentioned this transducer but doesn't use the low frequency much.. He thought it would be a nice option to have though to do a split screen on the Live unit and to show both low and high frequencies together. What do you guys think about that? He said it would be a nice option to have when bottom fishing and rigger fishing to show split screen info of both frequencies. I both anchor, drift, and troll for bottom fish so maybe having both frequencies could help in some of those situations.?
On another note; the Lowrance tech warned me to never turn off these units by use of only a power toggle switch. He said to always use the power off button on the head units first, then the toggle switch cause they are like a home computer and you can mess up settings/functions etc by powering off through a switch instead of first powering off the head units. He said they get customers calling about messed up auto pilots quite often from powering off direct power before head units specifically more than other things like radar, plotter info etc but he said all of it has the potential to have problems arise by doing so. Good to know cause I have done it both ways but won't anymore.
I put a call into Lowrance this morning tech support to ask a couple questions.
If I go with the new Lowrance HDS Live 12" it says it's capable of 1000W CHIRP transducers but my front helm Lowrance HDS gen 2 unit is not. It is only a 600 watt unit and I read that I would have to use a sonar hub if I wanted that front gen 2 unit to "see" chirp functions of a transducer. So I asked Lowrance tech support if that new rear HDS Live unit would be acting as a "sonar hub" to share the chirp abilities of the new 185 transducer with the front unit. I would disconnect the front transducer just to make sure they don't interfere with each other. It is a very sub par transducer anyways being only 300W. He said yes by hooking them together with the ethernet cable like others have told me here on the forum the HDS Live will act as the sonar hub. The front gen 2 unit does have a "chirp" selection in it's menu but like mentioned above it normally would need to have the sonar hub used to be able to use that function, so now it will be able to take advantage of that new HDS Live unit's ability to use the chirp transducer and share the info with the front one.
So I just have to decide on the transducer I'm going to go with. He also suggested the 275LH but I mentioned to him that someone else mentioned this transducer but doesn't use the low frequency much.. He thought it would be a nice option to have though to do a split screen on the Live unit and to show both low and high frequencies together. What do you guys think about that? He said it would be a nice option to have when bottom fishing and rigger fishing to show split screen info of both frequencies. I both anchor, drift, and troll for bottom fish so maybe having both frequencies could help in some of those situations.?
On another note; the Lowrance tech warned me to never turn off these units by use of only a power toggle switch. He said to always use the power off button on the head units first, then the toggle switch cause they are like a home computer and you can mess up settings/functions etc by powering off through a switch instead of first powering off the head units. He said they get customers calling about messed up auto pilots quite often from powering off direct power before head units specifically more than other things like radar, plotter info etc but he said all of it has the potential to have problems arise by doing so. Good to know cause I have done it both ways but won't anymore.
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Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
Best place in BC to purchase these 1K chirp transducers? Or are they mostly an online USA purchase? Don't seem to get much popping up on a google search for them for sale here locally.
Barman
Active Member
I have bought three MFD's as described above, my TM275 LHW and Halo 24 from the place that I think has the best prices in North America. This is coming from a guy who has a US mailbox.
Every time it always ended up being Harbour Chandler in Nanaimo, but the key is I always waited for the Boat Show, or Pirate Day sale.
Every time it always ended up being Harbour Chandler in Nanaimo, but the key is I always waited for the Boat Show, or Pirate Day sale.
Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
Right on ya I buy a lot of stuff from HC as well. Usually get stuff shipped since I'm not on the island. I did look on their website today and didn't see the transducer. I'll give them a call tomorrow to see if they can get it in for me. There is a marine supply distributor in the lower mainland that they buy from so if they rep this transducer I may be able to pick it up from the closer warehouse. Hopefully. Defender in the states doesn't have the transducer on their site either.
CBsqrd
Well-Known Member
Harbour Chandler would be my choice as well. If they don't have it in stock they'll be able to get it for you, and yes, may even allow you to pick it up locally. [Side note, I needed some new Power Pro downrigger braid last week and no one in the Lower Mainland had any due to restocking issues related to Covid. Ordered from Harbour Chandler Wednesday afternoon, but realized later that I forgot to get expedited shipping. Called them the next day to pay for that and they said, "No worries, we'll send it Purolator and you'll have it tomorrow for no extra charge." Awesome!]
Roton in Vancouver would be able to get it for you as well. I got my B175HW through them and they were good to deal with. I've purchased other electronics through them as well and never had any complaints.
To your question on TM275LHW vs TM185HW, personally I don't think the 275 is worth the c.50% premium to get the low frequency CHIRP. Usually the advantage of having separate frequencies is different cone widths, where the narrower cone is better for bottom detail since it Is not taking an average of the returns over the larger area the wider cone covers. However, the cone angle for the L and HW on the 275 are pretty much identical, 16 - 25 degrees vs 25 degrees, respectively. I've used my B175HW for halibut fishing down to 300 - 400 ft with no complaints. Also, splitting your sonar screen in half so you can see both L and H frequencies gets old pretty fast - I tried it a few times with my old M260 transducer (50 kHz / 200 kHz) and didn't find it provided any extra useful info, but some may disagree.
Here's a couple photos of the B175HW in action (same element as the TM185). Unfortunately I don't have any bottom fishing images to show you, these were all fishing for salmon. I've found that salmon usually don't give a strong return, most likely due to having small swim bladders (hence no air to reflect off), but sometimes you can see the return come right up to you gear and turn around and see the rod pop off - love it when that happens!
Salmon off of the North Arm. Hooked up right after.
Winter feeders in Howe Sound
Also winter fishing in Howe Sound. You can see the salmon going to town on the bait ball.
One more from winter...
Roton in Vancouver would be able to get it for you as well. I got my B175HW through them and they were good to deal with. I've purchased other electronics through them as well and never had any complaints.
To your question on TM275LHW vs TM185HW, personally I don't think the 275 is worth the c.50% premium to get the low frequency CHIRP. Usually the advantage of having separate frequencies is different cone widths, where the narrower cone is better for bottom detail since it Is not taking an average of the returns over the larger area the wider cone covers. However, the cone angle for the L and HW on the 275 are pretty much identical, 16 - 25 degrees vs 25 degrees, respectively. I've used my B175HW for halibut fishing down to 300 - 400 ft with no complaints. Also, splitting your sonar screen in half so you can see both L and H frequencies gets old pretty fast - I tried it a few times with my old M260 transducer (50 kHz / 200 kHz) and didn't find it provided any extra useful info, but some may disagree.
Here's a couple photos of the B175HW in action (same element as the TM185). Unfortunately I don't have any bottom fishing images to show you, these were all fishing for salmon. I've found that salmon usually don't give a strong return, most likely due to having small swim bladders (hence no air to reflect off), but sometimes you can see the return come right up to you gear and turn around and see the rod pop off - love it when that happens!
Salmon off of the North Arm. Hooked up right after.
Winter feeders in Howe Sound
Also winter fishing in Howe Sound. You can see the salmon going to town on the bait ball.
One more from winter...
Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
Well that makes up my mind about which transducer to go with out of those two then. Thank you very much for all that great info and the screen shots of the sounder working with the salmon/bait balls. So much better than the sounder I have on my boat.
Harbor Chandler is great. Never hear anything bad about them. Always going a step above to help their customers out. I've never dealt with Roton but I go downtown to my inlaws place often who are near there so I'll stop in to Roton this week. I ordered the Lowrance HDS 12 Live today
. So I'll be all set soon with the new unit and the TM185HW.
Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
12" HDS Live and the TM185HW are ordered and on their way. Thanks for everyone's help brainstorming this. Sure learned a lot about sonars/transducers in a short period of time
Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
Transducer and new 12" HDS Live showed up today. Wiring it in tomorrow
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