Ndp win in alberta: What does this mean for enbridge?

[Sharphooks]

I'm curious what the political changes in Alberta mean for Enbridge's pipeline dream to Kitimat?

Did anybody follow the campaign promises being made by the NDP winner and how might those promises effect the possible outcomes for Big Oil's wet dream?

thanks

 

[agentaqua]

Well - if anyone besides the cabinet actually listens to the drivel out of this government's moronic mouthpieces like Joe Oliver - the NDP win in the Conservative stronghold of AB is "only" a "local" phenomenon. More specifically to answer your question:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1982291/what-the-ndp-win-in-alberta-means-for-b-c/

 

[Gunsmith]

Enbridge does not need Gateway to survive. They have lots of irons in the fire.

 

[walleyes]

I think its pretty much accepted that Northern Gateway is dead in the water. Lots of lessons learned there for all parties involved. As far as this experiment with the socialists it probly wont be a bad experience for a bit if anything it will be a lesson for everyone lol.. As far as Notley changing all these rules and being the great savoir to all things evil and all her campaign promises,, even she has admitted most of them are not attainable in Alberta. They were merely words on paper written down by people who never expected to get into power,, she could have written any thing she wanted in which she did. Oh i'm sure we will see a small increase in corporate taxes,, most Albertans wanted that anyways. I am sure we will see user fees put in place instead of taxes outright but for the most part it will be business as usual over here.. Make no mistake about it nor will Notley, there is an industry that runs the whole country and it sits here in Alberta,, no one certainly not Notley is going to be the one to break the country,, not in 4 years.. She will do as the rest of them have done and that is sit down,, shut up,, and do as they are told !!!

Industry here has moved on from Northern Gateway,, same as Keystone XL,, what ever,, where there is a need and a market a product will find its way there. Alberta is a resilient place, we run on investment dollars and people want to invest in what we have so the market finds a way. Even poor California with all its people and movie stars apposing oil and spending all that money to stop oil,, lol,, poor old California has increased its use and shipments of Canadian heavy oil by 700% over the last couple years.. People are so slow in the head. They stand there at the gas pumps in their polyester clothes, filling up there vehicles, talking on their cell phones holding a plastic coffee cup arranging oil protests lol.. Slow in the head I tell yah.. No,, we will keep pumping out what they are buying,, its all good out here,, we are enjoying the slow down actually,, bout time we had a bit of a break.. Well I haven't had a break,, still up in Dawson / FSJ drilling..

They will get built,, they will just be called something different.

http://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/2015/05/calvin-helin-eagle-spirit-energy-pipeline/


http://business.financialpost.com/n...-the-end-point-of-keystone-xl?__lsa=8593-caba

http://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/2015/05/frog-lake-energy-resources-joe-dion/

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2014/5/6/Energy-Watch-California-buying-more-Canadian-oil-sands-crude.aspx

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-for-alberta-arctic-pipeline/article21822631/

 

[agentaqua]

Thanks, Walleyes - I tend to agree with your comments. Nice to hear it from someone close to the industry. There will need to be some reconciliation with FN in order for pipelines to get built - no matter the colour of your political banner...

 

[walleyes]

First Nations people want in and why not,, it's about time. So what if these companies have to pay them huge sums, good if they are partners and get a big junk of the work force it can only benifit the whole country. Look let's admit it here we're all adults. A lot of the First Nations bands are a huge draw on tax dollars, those are payed by all of us. If they can generate income from industry and ease up on their independence on government and in turn their draw on our taxes it benefits all of us. And at the same time starts to build independence and a source of pride for these communities. So many of these communities have made leaps and bounds out here in Alberta,, it's a source of pride for all of us, it really is. These companies make billions so do the investors,, let them share the revenue with our native groups why should it be up to the government to distribute this money. Only problem is,, you all might have to support Harper to keep this going, cause you all know darn well the NDP or Liberals want the First Nations to stay where they are, this way they can buy there votes. What these people need now is investment money / private sector / capitalism to achieve these goals not government involvement..

Think about that..

 

[agentaqua]

Harper = "friend" of FN? Yikes, WE! Please tell me you are kidding, right? or trolling?

http://westcoastnativenews.com/tracked-by-the-government/
http://westcoastnativenews.com/stephen-harper-is-a-bigot/
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/environment/nathan-cullen-calls-real-engagement-first-nations
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...tions-to-shelve-rights-buy-into-resource-rush
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/05/07/romeo-saganash-indigenous-rights_n_7234856.html
http://rabble.ca/news/2014/06/hupacasath-first-nation-vs-canada-china-fipa-agreement
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/02/canada-un-indigenous-rights_n_5918868.html
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2015/01/15/meet-the-real-stephen-harper/
https://citizenactionmonitor.wordpr...omeone-who-i-think-is-ruthless-to-the-bottom/
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/02/0...eadlines&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=090215
http://westcoastnativenews.com/****-you-stephen-harper/
http://www.vancouversun.com/technol...ocks+native/10843065/story.html#__federated=1
http://westcoastnativenews.com/barr...ypal-account-frozen-due-to-harper-government/
http://behindthenumbers.ca/2015/03/...n-rights-compromised-by-c-51-committee-hears/
http://www.afn.ca/index.php/en/nati...ing-committee-on-public-safety-and-national-s
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/first-nations-vow-to-fight-security-bill-at-supreme-court
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/csi...-expected-northern-gateway-protests-1.2997913
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...regulators-push-back-on-enbridges-line-9.html
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/polit...eep-tabs-on-all-demonstrations-across-country
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/03/2...ce=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=200315
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/harper-guts-fish-protections-neb-takes-habitat-along-pipelines/
http://nupge.ca/content/4963/omnibus-budget-bill-will-dismantle-federal-environmental-policy
http://www.flyfishbc.com/forums/thr...ctions-For-Pipelines-(-for-those-interested-)

 

[walleyes]

No don't do that agentaqua it demeans you..,Anyone can sit here a cherry pick news clips and opinions on any side of the fence we want.. We have left wing and right wing reports doesn't matter. We all know there are all kinds of reports on how bad any intern government is,, it's easy because they are in power,, who else is there to report on. No Most First Nations will never like a conservative government it goes against their recent legacy of doing business,, it's like unions voting for anybody but the NDP.,, you know that . The reality of it is,, Harper has moved towards our first nations becoming independent more than any previous government has. Does that mean it's been all roses for them no of course not.. But you sit down with any native leader that is an outgoing, independent leader and wants his community to join this new movement and they will agree with what I am saying. I know,, I have numerous close friends that are a part of these groups. There is the old group that doesn't want change, they don't need industry their industry is government hand outs,, it's been their status quo for a few generations now and it's worked for them. Now we have the new thinkers the ones that are making a differance in their communities they see the way out and that is to grab a hold and take charge. You know it and I know it,, neither the Libs nor the Dippers will let this happen. They will just keep giving them and giving them instead of encouraging self awareness.

But I know where this is going to go with you,, just a bunch of copied and pasted notes rather than you having any real life experience in any of it and sharing that..

So I will bow out before I am drawn in once again.

Have a great day my friend,, there is a world out there you know,, you should get out and see it sometime..

 

[agentaqua]

Well thanks at least for the insights as to what the far right are telling themselves in this country, WE.

Harper wants FN to abrogate their rights in treaties - for sure. That does NOT equate to First Nations becoming "independent", though Walleyes. You may wish to believe that I am "cherry-picking" news articles if it was not written by Ezra Levant or industry/government spin artists - but these are real news stories that do not seem to get play in the sanitized world of messaging from the power brokers.

Do FN want and need economic opportunities like everyone else - of course they do! Just because someone waves the words: jobs, jobs, jobs around does not mean that every proposed economic opportunity should be pursued. All proposed development should go through a risk/benefit analysis. Some economic opportunities are more sustainable than others.

I totally reject your unsupported assertion that "neither the Libs nor the Dippers will let this happen". The party system is the problem - no matter the colour of that banner - and no matter what party is in power - FN are slowly but surely gaining momentum in the courts over rights and title and governance - irrespective of what the PMO does nor says.

The Harper government has caused many court battles with FN - look at the last few years with DFO - as but one example of but one department.

You may wish that I don't have "any real life experience in any of it and sharing that.." since it reinforces what view you have gleamed from the Financial Post, the Alberta Oil Magazine, and the PMO - but again - you are only demonstrating the arrogance and paternalism of our current government and it's close industry ties. Truth is - you really have no idea of what experience I have or haven't.

 

[walleyes]

Then share your experiences once and a while,, regardless of what your views are I can respect them,, that's what makes this country we live in so dynamic and interesting. It's how we find a balance it it all. What I don't respect is your constant copy and paste drivel with no real experience.. Like I said anyone can look up news post and opinions and turn a topic into what ever we want. Bring your input to a debate,, not everyone else's..

 

[agentaqua]

Then share your experiences once and a while,, regardless of what your views are I can respect them,, that's what makes this country we live in so dynamic and interesting. It's how we find a balance it it all. What I don't respect is your constant copy and paste drivel with no real experience.. Like I said anyone can look up news post and opinions and turn a topic into what ever we want. Bring your input to a debate,, not everyone else's..

Debates - at least those grounded in evidence and science - often require that others have similarly benchmarked events or data. That's called confirmation, Walleyes. We all should be able to post news stories and our views walleyes - w/o a disrespectful dismissal of their content - even if that content goes against what the PR firms are pumping-out - especially so.

Again - you insist that any views not in alignment with what you expect from the so-called pro-business lobby and their substantial PR capacity must somehow be "drivel with no real experience". Don't you realize how myopic, paternalistic, arrogant and inappropriate that view is, walleyes? Just because that is the modus operandi of the current Conservative regime - does not mean that it is right. Open your mind a little.

 

[UkeeDreamin]

Back to the OP's original topic: IMHO the split centre/left of centre in federal politics (as opposed to the split on the right btwn conservatives and wild rose in Alberta) is setting up to deliver Harper another government with barely 30% of popular support and a typical dismal voter turn out in the 40% range. I really wish this country had a meaningful strategic voting movement as there is more than enough opposition to Harper's contempt of democracy to support a strong NDP-Liberal coalition government. Would love to see it but don't think we will.

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[agentaqua]

Thank you UD!

 

[KV1]

Business as usual just envelope full of cash to another name.

 

[ziggy]

If I recall from an earlier news story, she is for Kinder Morgan, against Northern Gateway, for refining in province and for a pipeline east. To what degree who knows?

 

[Gunsmith]

As I have said, fishing lines, lures, nets, lubricants, and on and on. You protest the production of fossil fuels, including the shipment via pipelines, trains, and ships yet you support it by continuing to buy these products. This action only keeps the wheels rolling through the adverse conditions you create in your protests.
Nobody is willing to drop the teat that they are used to sucking on.

 

[Whole in the Water]

As I have said, fishing lines, lures, nets, lubricants, and on and on. You protest the production of fossil fuels, including the shipment via pipelines, trains, and ships yet you support it by continuing to buy these products. This action only keeps the wheels rolling through the adverse conditions you create in your protests.
Nobody is willing to drop the teat that they are used to sucking on.

Agreed, but we need to make sure the resource development that we do indeed need does not wreck the healthy natural environment we must have to survive. Otherwise we wont need oil for fishing lines, lures nets, cause there will less and less fish use them on.

So far the majority of large resource developments have usually come with some kind of negative environmental impacts. The environment is a connected web and if we keep negatively impacting it is going to screw us in the end as these impacts can be accumulative overtime.

I am sure we all know this. What I am frustrated/angered by so many large resource development plans that whitewash the negative environmental impacts just so large corporations can maximize short term profits for themselves and the money grubbing politicians that bend over and support them. My 2 bits.

 

[Gunsmith]

I do believe without pointing any fingers, that Alberta has wrestled more from these corporations regarding environmental responsibility than any other province or country.

 

[Clint r]

X2 on this. Eventually, environment will trump dirty industry. Not just oil but other pollution making industries too. Look back over just the last 5 years. Many changes for the betterment of the environment. And we're teaching our kids about a pollution and a healthy ecosystem. More and more groups are becoming louder and more vocal. Might take another 25 or even 50 years but eventually the green side will prevail. The writings on the wall, just have to open our eyes and read it.

Agreed, but we need to make sure the resource development that we do indeed need does not wreck the healthy natural environment we must have to survive. Otherwise we wont need oil for fishing lines, lures nets, cause there will less and less fish use them on.

So far the majority of large resource developments have usually come with some kind of negative environmental impacts. The environment is a connected web and if we keep negatively impacting it is going to screw us in the end as these impacts can be accumulative overtime.

I am sure we all know this. What I am frustrated/angered by so many large resource development plans that whitewash the negative environmental impacts just so large corporations can maximize short term profits for themselves and the money grubbing politicians that bend over and support them. My 2 bits.

 

[bigdogeh]

As I have said, fishing lines, lures, nets, lubricants, and on and on. You protest the production of fossil fuels, including the shipment via pipelines, trains, and ships yet you support it by continuing to buy these products. This action only keeps the wheels rolling through the adverse conditions you create in your protests.
Nobody is willing to drop the teat that they are used to sucking on.

I believe yes we are dependent on fossil fuels to a large extent. but a problem many see is that that we seem to be giving away our resources at bottom dollar wholesale pricing. the royalties are at all time lows. very little filters back to the public that own these resources. also very little secondary refining is happening. we are shipping our rawest products rather than refining it here and adding to its value and creating more in country jobs. the same has happened in our lumber industry as we've had a major amount of mills shutdown yet we are shipping out raw logs as quickly as possible at an all time high. as usual we aren't getting as good a return as possible on the resources that belong, believe it or not, to the public. the resource isn't owned by big business. the safety record regarding oil spills also leaves much to be desired. BC has some of the most geologically diverse and beautiful country in the world and it deserves to be protected. shipping volatile products through populated area's has proven disastrous on more than one occasion. oil spill response is virtually non existent in most areas and non existent in others...and is being cutback more and more all the time. the rainy day fund has been cancelled and what was left of the fund has been squandered. We are bringing in foreign workers when we have unemployed here. with such a small population with regards to most countries and such a large wealth of valuable resource bases maybe it's time to look after some of these concerns before expanding in the direction we seen to be heading. as for the province of BC and Alberta and the country of Canada being as resource rich as we are, we should be much, much further ahead in our education and healthcare systems, yet we seem to be going backwards rather than forward with them. we need more front line troops on the ground, not more overpaid management or corporate owned government. people have gotten fed up and it has spoken at the polls. and the same will happen here in BC. with the dawn of the internet news travels fast and people aren't stupid and will form the opinion that they feel and believe is true. companies and governments need to wake up to this fact if they wish to be successful in the age of social communication. maybe spend more time doing what's right and pay their share with more concern to the environment and acknowledging global warming is a real issue. looks like suncor's leader may be doing that. hopefully it's not just lip service. with the billions of dollars of profits these companies have made, and the cutbacks that have happened in regards to our education system, healthcare, coastguard, sciences, etc, etc... it doesn't add up. also other countries are putting more money into and investing in developing other greener forms of energy but we seem to be disregarding other newer cleaner forms of energy. maybe now the pendulum will swing in the other direction. too bad it can't just stay in the middle. everyone would be much better off.
imo.