More Unhappy Campers - by Bob Hooton

[IronNoggin]

I think we are deluding ourselves by thinking that closing rivers to angling is in some way going to address the real and substantive issues impacting steelhead.

Recognizing the extremely sad shape they are in, why would we not close the systems down?
I don't believe anyone is suggesting doing so is suggesting that could be your "silver bullet".
However at this juncture every single fish is precious. Any angling carries a related hooking mortality index.
Keeping any system open to appease the guiding industry is beyond ludicrous at this juncture.
Downright immoral IMHO..

Nog

 

[Sharphooks]

Recognizing the extremely sad shape they are in, why would we not close the systems down?
I don't believe anyone is suggesting doing so is suggesting that could be your "silver bullet".
However at this juncture every single fish is precious. Any angling carries a related hooking mortality index.
Keeping any system open to appease the guiding industry is beyond ludicrous at this juncture.
Downright immoral IMHO..

Nog

^^^^^^^^. Exactly^^^^^^^

Every spawnig pair keeps complete extirpation at bay....that’s what’s so galling about the lodge/guide thing on the Skeena—no user group pounds these fish harder then the guides, day after day after day. We already know there’s associated mortality with C&R....they have no business operating on fish that have been deemed by proper science and backed up with data, as an Extreme Conservation Concern.... it’s abundantly clear that the Skeena opening this past September was purely driven by lodge owners playing the “employment” card...it sure as hell wasn’t a conservation move.

I unintentionally killed a THompson doe two decades ago. It was legal to do that in those days but I was a C&R guy back before you had to. I killed that doe on a free-floating dry fly. I thought I was fishing the cleanest, most challenging method—no way would I hook a fish on a dry fly cast upstream, the way you are forced to when fishing for educated brown trout. No skating allowed

A 12 pound doe came up, slurped the fly down once I’d stripped it back so it was just beneath my rod tip. The fish went nuts and when I finally got the fish to the beach I saw she had sucked it in so deep it hooked on her branchiostegals and she’d bled to death during the fight.

So I learned the hard way that sometimes, and with a quiet nod to Jacques Cousteau, C&R is indeed, playing with one’s food and when you have a projected run that is 23% of what should be returning to a river system, that system should be immediately shut down to all fishing.

Period.

 

[Sharphooks]

Finally the other shoe dropped.....



Bait Ban: Nass River including tributaries and the Skeena River including tributaries from Sept. 7 to June 15
No fishing: in all rivers and streams for steelhead, May 15-June 15. Exemptions include mainstem portions of the Skeena River, Nass River, Iskut River, Stikine River and Taku River, not currently closed under the existing winter/spring closure regulation.
No Fishing: In the Skeena River, including tributaries, for steelhead from October 12 to June 15.
No fishing: in any stream in the watersheds of the Skeena River upstream of Cedarvale or Nass River upstream of Kitsault Bridge, Jan 1-June 15 (NOTE: Nass River mainstem is EXEMPT and Skeena River mainstem upstream of Cedarvale is only closed Jan 1- May 31). See tables for other exceptions.

 

[searun]

Recognizing the extremely sad shape they are in, why would we not close the systems down?
I don't believe anyone is suggesting doing so is suggesting that could be your "silver bullet".
However at this juncture every single fish is precious. Any angling carries a related hooking mortality index.
Keeping any system open to appease the guiding industry is beyond ludicrous at this juncture.
Downright immoral IMHO..

Nog

I think you are not reading my post correctly. I NEVER stated that we should continue angling for Steelhead...I stopped doing that for the past decade other than on 2 occasions fished summer runs. What I did say was closing angling is not the panacea many are posting up. The solutions rest by taking other more concrete actions to address the more substantive reasons for the declines. Wearing the angling closure badge of honour just makes people feel like they are doing something, when in reality they are not.

 

[Teal]

I think we are deluding ourselves by thinking that closing rivers to angling is in some way going to address the real and substantive issues impacting steelhead. It might make some of us feel as if we are doing something noble or honourable, but the sad reality is there are a number of real issues impacting steelhead that are far larger contributors to their coast-wide demise than angling. If closing angling is the silver bullet that will lead to recovery, then please explain why we are seeing extirpation of steelhead even in pristine rivers that are largely inaccessible to any anglers or folks who might string out a gill net?

Steelhead are beyond recovery in most river systems. The time to take some action to at least preserve their genetic viability has or is slipping away rapidly. Extirpation is now a real likelihood. The once mighty Gold is now down to just a few observed adults...the end is near without significant intervention. Suggesting recovery will come from angling bans and wishing for a miracle is analogous to sending an unvaccinated person with no PPE into a covid ward in the hospital and hoping they don't contract the disease...highly unlikely IMO.

Firstly, recreational anglers should be prepared to put rods down during a conservation crisis even when regulations say otherwise. This might actually send a message to other user groups and governments. While they are many different issues effecting steelhead returns, we need to focus on the ones that we can control, such as selective fishing techniques, habitat preservation, conservation , and restoration, limiting catch and release impact by recreational anglers, minimizing the impact of hatcheries on wild stocks etc...

To say that steelhead are beyond recovery in most river systems maybe true if we continue on the is trajectory, but right now we have the opportunity to bring the fish back from the brink. The Elwha River comes to mind and the once extremely productive streams of Southern California even to this day still have remnant populations. A restoration programs has been started on some of these streams with the goal of #'s of fish returning in 50-60 years, wouldn't it be great to see a plan for IFS and TRS that would take us to 2070 with measurable goals and expectations? Steelhead are incredibly resilient fish, and if humans make the effort, fish numbers will increase. A holistic approach needs to take place from the head waters of a watershed to the estuary and beyond. The wonderful thing if we can achieve this, is that other species will benefit, including chinook and coho that are so beloved by many anglers on this forum.

 

[terrin]

I think you are not reading my post correctly. I NEVER stated that we should continue angling for Steelhead...I stopped doing that for the past decade other than on 2 occasions fished summer runs. What I did say was closing angling is not the panacea many are posting up. The solutions rest by taking other more concrete actions to address the more substantive reasons for the declines. Wearing the angling closure badge of honour just makes people feel like they are doing something, when in reality they are not.

I’d rather wear the angling closure badge of honour badge than I killed the last fish badge.
If we do nothing then nothing will change. Leading by example might be the catalyst that gets other groups to follow.

 

[onefish]

Many Vancouver Island rivers are closed in the winter where steelhead tend to hold. From my experience those that still have small open sections are only visited by the occasional angler. I tend to fish one of my former haunts once or twice a winter mostly to get out and get some exercise in the dead of winter. Where I used to see 10-20 anglers on a given day I usually see nobody. From what I can see, the occasional catch and release angler that still wets a line once in a while is the least of the problems facing steelhead today.

 

[Derby]

Firstly, recreational anglers should be prepared to put rods down during a conservation crisis even when regulations say otherwise. This might actually send a message to other user groups and governments. While they are many different issues effecting steelhead returns, we need to focus on the ones that we can control, such as selective fishing techniques, habitat preservation, conservation , and restoration, limiting catch and release impact by recreational anglers, minimizing the impact of hatcheries on wild stocks etc...

To say that steelhead are beyond recovery in most river systems maybe true if we continue on the is trajectory, but right now we have the opportunity to bring the fish back from the brink. The Elwha River comes to mind and the once extremely productive streams of Southern California even to this day still have remnant populations. A restoration programs has been started on some of these streams with the goal of #'s of fish returning in 50-60 years, wouldn't it be great to see a plan for IFS and TRS that would take us to 2070 with measurable goals and expectations? Steelhead are incredibly resilient fish, and if humans make the effort, fish numbers will increase. A holistic approach needs to take place from the head waters of a watershed to the estuary and beyond. The wonderful thing if we can achieve this, is that other species will benefit, including chinook and coho that are so beloved by many anglers on this forum.

such as selective fishing techniques ( fly only?) , minimizing the impact of hatcheries on wild stocks etc...

Not that I'm for or againast these items... this is where the problem falls in trying to get the groups to come together

 

[Derby]

I’d rather wear the angling closure badge of honour badge than I killed the last fish badge.
If we do nothing then nothing will change. Leading by example might be the catalyst that gets other groups to follow.

If you believe that would stop the business of steelhead fishing lodges .. personal u have more faith in business then I do.. agian I have no problem closer with but that in its self does nothing as we have seen over & over agian with total failure for the most part as the Minstry of do nothing does that... NOTHING

 

[Teal]

such as selective fishing techniques ( fly only?) , minimizing the impact of hatcheries on wild stocks etc...

Not that I'm for or againast these items... this is where the problem falls in trying to get the groups to come together

To answer your question, selective angling techniques can include fly only however I would suggest something more realistic would be imposing catch and release limits, and in some instance a draw system on popular rivers and or certain sections of a stream. I would encourage you if interested to look at the ZEC system in Quebec, now it may not be perfect but it is certainly an improvement on BC's current system. Limiting catch and release will help protect fragile runs and provide anglers with a quality angling experience.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Doesn’t that lodge on the pit river where salmon are closed fish for salmon in the name of fishing for bull trout.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Limiting catch and release will help protect fragile runs and provide anglers with a quality angling experience.

weren't the skeena lodges pushing "one and done"

this would satisfy you?

 

[Sharphooks]

I’m not so sure the Elwha River come-back can be used as an argument...what I’d want to know is: What was the return of Elwha spawners in 2020/2021, not multiple years ago After the dam was removed

Reason: there are some folks positing that the steelhead crash in the Columbia systems this past Fall is due to a dissolved oxygen crash in the near-shore coastal waters. It not only effected outbound smolt migration but in-bound adults...

I have fished a very productive Alaska river since the early 80’s. Total in-bound adult spawner population can be counted as they have weirs in place.

2019: 8,500 steelhead rerturned to the system
2020: 6,445
2021: 3,500

This is a river system that is 100% untouched by riparian development: spawning gravel is as pristine as the day it was first deposited there


I’d really be interested to know if the derpressed dissolved oxygen counts extend as far north as Alaska. It’s not just a result of fertilizer run-off and hyper-eutrophic conditions that you would find near a coastal city: it’s changes in wind patterns, the Pacific “Blob” , stratification of seawater and dissolved O2 due to either too much mixing or not enough mixing, part of the collateral damage of global warming.

 

[Whitebuck]

I would rather see a complete closure than limited regs. If the runs are in bad shape complete closure till they improve.

If you are directly targetting a species that is in trouble even with limited regs(fly only) you are part of the problem.

All limited regs do in freshwater is open loopholes.

The skeena lodges would find an excuse to harass the last couple pairs of steelhead if it meant them making a buck. A lot of us called this years ago for the skeena.....sad but very happy with the closure.

Sometimes looking in the mirror and realizing you are part of the problem is the biggest/hardest step in moving forward and protecting our resources.

Derby summed it up perfectly.....the ministry of do nothing

 

[Derby]

Perhaps its time for a steelhead round table ??

 

[onefish]

The Stamp has much lower numbers than the Skeena and the guides are still running around harassing the last few in that system too.
I floated the lower stretch of the river last year between xmas and new years. In the past it used to be busy, many boats and many shore anglers. This year, two guide boats was all I saw under good fishing conditions. Not a single shore angler was spotted. We got nothing, saw nothing, and heard of nothing. In my experience, lousy fishing pretty much closes the system on its own. You really don't need the gov't to do it, unless it is a money driven thing. I would suspect even the guides are having a hard time attracting clients with such poor fishing.

 

[Derby]

So there was a total 3 boats fishing ?.. the stamp is still considered a hatchery production river although the number of winters has dwindled to pretty much nothing like most of steelhead rivers at this time .. either they be hatchery or wild designation

 

[onefish]

So there was a total 3 boats fishing ?.. the stamp is still considered a hatchery production river although the number of winters has dwindled to pretty much nothing like most of steelhead rivers at this time .. either they be hatchery or wild designation

In the stretch we were fishing that is all I saw. I can't say how many people were fishing upstream of the rifle range though.

 

[Derby]

i guess the other part to this story as stated by others... if there is no fish for the most part the less amount of pressure there is.. I would also suggest that for the most part the mort . rate is less also.. not that Im trying to open that can worms

 

[searun]

I’m not so sure the Elwha River come-back can be used as an argument...what I’d want to know is: What was the return of Elwha spawners in 2020/2021, not multiple years ago After the dam was removed

Reason: there are some folks positing that the steelhead crash in the Columbia systems this past Fall is due to a dissolved oxygen crash in the near-shore coastal waters. It not only effected outbound smolt migration but in-bound adults...

I have fished a very productive Alaska river since the early 80’s. Total in-bound adult spawner population can be counted as they have weirs in place.

2019: 8,500 steelhead rerturned to the system
2020: 6,445
2021: 3,500

This is a river system that is 100% untouched by riparian development: spawning gravel is as pristine as the day it was first deposited there


I’d really be interested to know if the derpressed dissolved oxygen counts extend as far north as Alaska. It’s not just a result of fertilizer run-off and hyper-eutrophic conditions that you would find near a coastal city: it’s changes in wind patterns, the Pacific “Blob” , stratification of seawater and dissolved O2 due to either too much mixing or not enough mixing, part of the collateral damage of global warming.

Precisely my point...there are other factors well beyond angling at play. And while we might feel good closing down fishing, it really won't do much to address the declines...so a failed strategy. I'm all for closures IF we also address the main reasons within our control for the current death spiral. I simply can't accept the conventional wise-dumb that if angling and gill nets stop all will be good. That is simply not true, and again there are plenty of examples of pristine river systems, with almost no angling effort that are spiralling into the abyss. What would an angling closure accomplish for those rivers?