More Quota Purchased in Nootka

trendsetter said:
When lodges or guides purchase quota to improve their bottom line they are doing so at the expense of all BC Sport fishermen. That is not a sportsmanlike decision, it is a business decision. The result is rich folks can keep large halibut while average Joe cannot.

Businesses (guide or lodge) that participate in this program should no longer be allowed to represent sport fishermen on any of the lobby groups (SFAB, SFI, SVIAC) etc. because they are biased.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that any operation participating in buying quota is getting the boot out of the SFI
 
NWL has a history of massive kill shots like the facebook posting, and planeloads of fish shipped out of the Nootka area, for the past decade.

Ask the guides and owners what they have given back to the Nootka area in the way of salmon enhancement? You will be outraged at the answer.

Commercial "sports" fishing at it's finest.
 
I'm glad the recreational sport fishers have accepted a 60 lb limit so that the lodges can have a longer season. Heck we wouldn't want the season to close early and have them lose all their out of town summer business right. Think of how many grand a day guests they'd be losing. Oh in case you're wondering, this is sarcasm.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree with a ban on any involvement with any of our interest groups/boards for any lodge owner/guide of individual who has bought quota. Kick em to the curb and make them fend for themselves.
 
Finished Business said:
My principles wont let me support an organization blindly. And high five, sport fishing is bigger than Vancouver Island, I don't see why you don't include the huge populations of the mainland, rather than just hoping for support from the central and north island....

Rollie, you have some of my highest respects on this forum, for the events you host and if anyone was a rec fisher who is also a guide, I would consider you to be him. But it is the SVIAC JOB to convince ME that what they are doing with my (and everyones) money and support is just! But for salmon's sake! The website hasn't even been updated with SFBC Banana Cup Results. $5500 of the money raised went to SVIAC, but there has been zero updates as to where it went or what is being done with it. Infact I have seen no changes at all since may on that website. We hear no updates on the SFBC forums from SVIAC whatsoever. I think those who did attend the derby and supported this cause deserve exactly that.

Maybe SVIAC is so bogged down in the political process that they do not have time to keep up with there message and websites regarding updates and news. Again I have heard nothing on their stance regarding quota, so either they are dodging the issue, or they are fishing?
SVIAC has done little to convince me other than giving the sport sector a few kind words to gather fundraising support and a POSSIBLE outlet to spend $40 and HOPE it makes some sort of difference.

I am more more more than willing to offer my support and money to a cause that makes it clear that they are the ones to put my support behind and they will GET results! I made several contributions at the Halibut Seminar, far more than the $40 membership to SVIAC, to the various foundations presented at the Seminar because the work they have done is seen first hand. I believe a beautiful hatchery house was built on oyster creek (though I may be mistaken with the location). I want more out of the money I give in support than just a membership card. I would love to support SVIAC, but they are doing little to gather that support unfortunately. It all boils down to a lack of information which should be clearly stated, with no confusion as to the goals of the organization.

I think this all is really meant for another thread. I was hoping a higher up from SVIAC would post a thread detailing the latest updates and open the forum to discussion on relevant matters but that has yet to happen. It would be an opportunity to state your case and possibly win over some harder to sell anglers, like myself.

But breath easy SVIAC'ers, I'm fishing for 2 weeks so this is the last you will hear from me on the matter. FB - Out!
Click to expand...

Let me first say that this is my personal comments to you FB. Not SVIAC's.

I don't seem to understand why you continue to say negative things about an organization and the dedicated, passionate, and hard working volunteers behind it. Why does anyone have to "sell you" on the idea that we are working hard to protect and recover fish and fisheries that affect all BC anglers? If you don't want to become a member and receive the benefits and updates that members receive, that's your choice, but WHY do you continue to take shots at the coalition? It just doesn't make sense for any avid angler to tread on a new organization who are trying to bring together all recreational anglers and create strong alliances with like minded groups and individuals. This won't happen over night and the coalition can't handle all issues in all areas, but we have to start somewhere. I know the board and committee members would like to have chapters across the province but that's just not possible considering we are only a handful of volunteers with limited time to give. Hope this helps clarify things and bit and maybe has you thinking twice next time.

Also, a newsletter was sent out to all our members in late May detailing what we have been up to and what we are working at. I am unable to attach it as it's a pdf, but I have cut and paste the text from it....

1. Welcome

Welcome to the first South Vancouver Island Anglers Coalition (SVIAC) newsletter. We intend to send them out approximately 3 times per year. These updates will include news and information about upcoming events, policy and fisheries issues that affect our mission and objectives, and summary reports on the status of various initiatives being undertaken by the Directors on your behalf.

2. Upcoming Events

a. Sport Fishing BC – Banana Challenge.
SVIAC are pleased to support the first annual www.SportFishingBC.com forum members’ braggarts fishing derby. The organizers have named this event the Sport Fishing BC Banana Challenge, with this year’s event being held on Saturday June 15th and Sunday June 16th, 2013. The derby headquarters will be at Pedder Bay Marina in Metchosin, B.C. Full details can be found here:- Sport Fishing BC Banana Challenge

b. Guides Meeting
On Wednesday May 22nd SVIAC hosted a meeting specifically for the angling guides and charter operators of Southern Vancouver Island at the Six Mile Pub. The purpose of the meeting was to provide an opportunity for those guides not yet members of SVIAC to hear about the organization’s Mission, Purpose and Objectives. As current members are aware, by building a strong grass roots organisation that includes all stakeholders, SVIAC will be better able to advance its aims to the benefit of the fish and fish habitat that we all wish to see.

c. Angling Advocacy Council
At the end of June, SVIAC will be hosting the first Angling Advocacy Council as part of our business plan commitment. This meeting will bring together representatives from the regions angling and outdoors clubs to discuss local fish and fisheries issues and problems important to each participant. The intent is to build strong powerful alliances among local groups and to take the mutually agreed lobbying positions forward to politicians and decision makers.

3. Lobbying activities

a. Candidate Survey
SVIAC sent a survey concerning fish and fisheries issues to all MLA candidates on the southern part of VI. The results, such as we have received, are posted on here: BC Election Survey Results
That candidate responses were sparse, which is not surprising but we did receive completed surveys from the major parties HQs on behalf of their candidates.

b. Chinook Slot Limits
Several SVIAC Directors who are part of the SFAB process have been communicating with DFO in reaction to the recently announced slot limits and timing for Chinook in Areas 19 and 20 during May, June and July. There is no final announcement at present but SVIAC will inform members as soon as there is any new information.

c. Int’l Pacific Halibut Commission
Some early lobbying success for SVIAC. Our society secured a voting seat as part of the Conference Board at the 2013 International Pacific Halibut Commission meeting. The meeting was held on January 21st to 25th at the Fairmont Empress Hotel in Victoria. Canada was able to secure a much higher TAC than originally expected due to our entire Canadian delegation working well together and having great commissioners on our side. More details available under the NEWS tab at www.anglerscoalition.com

d. Fraser River Chinook Forum
As part of our efforts to advocate for a comprehensive recovery program for Chinook stocks of concern, SVIAC is planning to organize a Fraser River Chinook forum. This would be a significant undertaking and is only in the early conceptual stages. Further information will be forthcoming when plans are more concrete.

4. News from Related Organisations

a. Sport Fishing Advisory Board (SFAB)
The SFAB Main Board met in Victoria on Sat April 13th and Sun April 14th, 2013. One key point emerged from this meeting that might affect our region. The Main Board recommended the local Victoria Committee work with DFO to review opportunities to improve the Chinook fishing while Fraser Chinook stocks of concern are transiting our waters. Our local committee will be working with DFO directly to add changes to the 2013 Salmon Integrated Harvest Management Plan

b. Sidney Anglers 2013 Salmon Derby
The 3rd annual Sidney Salmon Derby was held on May 3rd and 4th by the Sidney Anglers Association. By all accounts it was a very successful event that will have raised thousands for salmon enhancement when the final tally is in. Our society participated in the derby with "Team SVIAC"; three of our board members tried in vain to land the winner but had great fun none the less. Great job Sidney Anglers and better luck next year Team SVIAC!

5. Membership

a. Membership Benefits Program
Membership continues to offer significant benefits at local tackle stores and businesses. For example Island Outfitters will re-spool one salmon reel with monofilament for free, and they offer 10% off all bait. Also welcome on board Gizmos Computer Store. Details of these benefit deals and other businesses in our program can be found here: SVIAC Member Benefits Program

6. Board of Directors

a. New Members
As discussed at the SVIAC AGM two new board members would be appointed. Founding member Christopher Miller, and well known Sooke and Victoria fishing guide, Rollie Rose, have been appointed to the SVIAC Board of Directors. Their knowledge and strengths will complement the Board’s set of capabilities as they take on the task of building and growing this organization into a powerful advocacy force for fisheries restoration and management policy changes.
 
Angling Advocacy Council
At the end of June, SVIAC will be hosting the first Angling Advocacy Council as part of our business plan commitment. This meeting will bring together representatives from the regions angling and outdoors clubs to discuss local fish and fisheries issues and problems important to each participant. The intent is to build strong powerful alliances among local groups and to take the mutually agreed lobbying positions forward to politicians and decision makers.


did this happen, and if so, what was the result
 
Finished Business said:
When I go on a charter it is purely a meat fishery, and typically the captain of said charter says exactly that, and this is what they do day in day out.
They don't look at the fish as a blessing from nature, or appreciate the colors, finesse, or fight of the fish. It is seen as a paycheck, a successful day on the charter boat. How anyone can describe or think that this is some kind of recreational fishing is laughable, and to think that true recreational fisherman, the guys buying boats, spending thousands and getting nothing but experience and $500/ pound salmon would be compared to a lodge or guide as one in the same is a joke.
I mean no disrespect to any guide but I call it like I see it. A guide is a commercial fisherman, thats why I HIRE you. Duh!
If I could honestly believe and dive head first into the fact that a lodge/guide operation is fighting for MY (the true sporty) best interest, and not the interest of putting food on the table and cash in the bank first, well, I'd think I was probably on something.
Click to expand...

Well Nick, good thing you called to give me a Head's Up that you had expressed your opinion in this regard before I read what you wrote. I ain't quite ready to write you off quite as quickly as some of the others, and I have always said everyone one is entitled to their own opinion - after all it would be a damn boring planet if we all thought the same...

That said, you cross the line with the above statement painting all of us guides with that particular brush. And I could not disagree more with your position. I (and most of the other guides I know) fish because we both Like doing it, and we Like to share some Great Experiences out on the water. I Do NOT count success based upon the number of dead critters in the hold nearly as much as I do the overall experience for the folks who wander out with me. Irregardless of the numbers, they are there to have an Enjoyable Experience. And while that obviously does involve catching fish, there is a WHOLE LOT MORE going into it than simply putting meat in the freezer!

To suggest we "don't look at the fish as a blessing from nature, or appreciate the colors, finesse, or fight of the fish" is completely misguided, for it is that EXACTLY why many of us chose to guide in the first place! And the Sharing of those experiences, that particular LOVE of all involved, is what drives most of us to continue doing what we do.

We do get some that are there simply for the meat. Given. I have found that this particular mindset is NOT the predominant factor driving the vast majority to engage a good guide out here. Most are in it for the Excitement, the FUN Factor, and many others for the Learning Curve regarding places, timing and proper gear/techniques. And most walk away with Huge Smiles even when the fishing was somewhat tough. For a reason - they had a Good Time on a trip catered specifically to their desires. IF YOUR desire is to kill as many fish as possible, and you express that at the beginning of your trip, YOU are the one driving the experience exactly towards what it will be. NOT your guide.

While you might say "I mean no disrespect to any guide" I beg to differ. you have in fact insulted a lot of us who have been at the game for longer than you've been out of diapers. And many of those who have been at the table, banging our heads repeatedly against the DFO Wall for the betterment of ALL Anglers even longer. As you can tell, I am a little choked at you at this moment. Likely get over it down the road, but suggest you give it a day or two before you drop a dime in my direction again.

Nog
 
bigdogeh said:
I think we all need to stick together (lodge owners, charter guys and there clients, joe weekend fisherman guys) and try not to be fractured or divided as we'll have more strength and influence in numbers. we need to keep showing our displeasure with the way the recreational sector is being treated. we need to tell people what's going on and the way we see it at every opportunity that comes up. I think this quota system is dividing us up and causing alot of infighting between the groups trying to share what little of the resource is left to us. It's sad but I believe that the dfo new perfectly well that this would be a result of this quota implementation.
Click to expand...

You are Bang ON in this assessment. United We Stand, and such a United Front literally Scares The **** out of The Dino! And what better way to ensure that does not occur, and that the infighting within our ranks escalates, than to force upon us the irrational and politically motivated restrictions we now endure under their misguided methods of so called "management". Theirs was a conscious decision with the full and complete understanding of the mistrust and bickering amongst us that would follow. And... we are indeed playing RIGHT into Their Hands at this point! We MUST get over our differences, and do it damn soon. Otherwise the picture you paint for those who follow in our footsteps is likely even Grimmer than you predict.

Nog
 
IronNoggin said:
You are Bang ON in this assessment. United We Stand, and such a United Front literally Scares The **** out of The Dino! And what better way to ensure that does not occur, and that the infighting within our ranks escalates, than to force upon us the irrational and politically motivated restrictions we now endure under their misguided methods of so called "management". Theirs was a conscious decision with the full and complete understanding of the mistrust and bickering amongst us that would follow. And... we are indeed playing RIGHT into Their Hands at this point! We MUST get over our differences, and do it damn soon. Otherwise the picture you paint for those who follow in our footsteps is likely even Grimmer than you predict.

Nog
Click to expand...
And your quote Nog is exactly why you guides and lodges NOT buying into the quota system should be doing everything in your power to dissuade, censure and other wise "drum out of the ranks" those guides and lodges that are so doing. For those latter guides ARE widening the cracks in the recreational industry. They are "protecting" their business (The Universal "get out of jail free card") at the EXPENSE of all recreational anglers and those ethical lodges/guides who are not buying into the system. If you are and the rest of the lodges are just shrugging or turning a blind eye to what those lodges are doing, then you are just acquiescing and condoning by inaction an injustice that will only worsen with time. It is not enough to just say "it is all DFO's fault". If you lodges and guides will not police yourselves and set up an ethical code of conduct AND enforce it then comments like FB's will only grow and the recreational sector will continue to fracture.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Finished Business, you don't what the frack you are talking about
 
Englishman said:
And your quote Nog is exactly why you guides and lodges NOT buying into the quota system should be doing everything in your power to dissuade, censure and other wise "drum out of the ranks" those guides and lodges that are so doing.
Click to expand...

I do not know why you would even think this route is not being actively pursued?
Of course we are applying what heat we can and letting those that buy in to this twisted Ponzi Scheme know that by doing so they do All of us a great dis-service.

Nog
 
first I just want to say to ironnoggin thxs for your post a few posts back where you replied to finished business. I think most people that have dealt with a guide feel that their guides are compassionate people and have a love for being in the outdoors with nature and being able to share there passion. the money and job are just an added bonus. nothing wrong with that. you stated it very eloguently in that post and I see the majority of guides (good guides) in the same light as you do.

I just want to thank you guides that haven't given in and are making a stand not to. I know there is possibly some pressure to give in but I just appreciate and am thankful that you are intelligent enough to understand that everyone (minus the commercial guys and dfo) loses in the long run if we do give in. the losses will be huge and we won't get back what we lose. bottom line is the resource and the way it's sustained needs to be shared fairly and equally with all interests and right now it isn't. and it will only get worse if government, dfo, the few lodges, guides that take advantage of the hali scheme continue in that perverse direction. I don't think we want to see a system like they have over in certain parts of europe where you need to belong to an exclusive old boys club that owns access and water, fishing rights in order to fish. so the way we handle the situation we're in with this hali quota fiasco can have consequences for the fresh water guys also down the road. no one wants to see our
fishing recreation privatized but they seem to be heading in that direction with each step they take... like the song says, you don't know what you've got till it's gone. I commend you guys for taking a stand in the opposite direction. honestly I can't understand how someone could give in to this "twisted ponzi scheme" (and it is) and be able to look themselves in the mirror in the morning.
so just want to say thxs again guys for standing up and doing what's right for all Canadians. we need to continue to get the word out that what they're doing is wrong and blatently wrong. and don't use the quota and try to dissuade people from using it and explain why its so wrong to use it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
IronNoggin said:
I do not know why you would even think this route is not being actively pursued?
Of course we are applying what heat we can and letting those that buy in to this twisted Ponzi Scheme know that by doing so they do All of us a great dis-service.

Nog
Click to expand...
Because I have not seen any evidence of it, other than a few posts on this forum that's why?
Care to share:-
Any links to letters or articles in newspapers from the official lodge/guide community or association officials?
Any links to votes of censure amongst official lodge/guide organisations?
Any links to letters or messages to the offending lodges/guides from industry officials or spoke persons?
Any blacklists posted?

I suppose the latter is too much to expect, since the guide/lodge industry wants to maintain it's solidarity whatever the consequences. Nevertheless, silence (or lack of clear public statement of industry position) is assent.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nog, thanks for laying it out in a professional manner, something you always do so well.

I stand behind my comments, BUT you and Jeff are correct, that I did cross a line in painting all guides with the same brush. There are some that are in it for the love of the sport, and chose that job to be close to it. I apologize to those guides. My comments were ill-informed as I do not know every guide in the business and I probably should have shut my trap when going down that road.

What else can I say.... It looks like I have committed Forum Suicide!

Que Sera Sera...
 
This has been quite the informative postings,nice to see Canada's sportfishing group voicing their opinions....I thought we had some BAD problems in the states,but I see it's the same here.It's a sad day when you see the sportfishing guys waring against each other,the goverment has a way to fire all of us up with some BAD rules.Sad day about the hali's,putting up a front to conserve the fishery,and then taking the almighty dollar to turn face and look the other way.Hope your Canadian pro-fishing group Vancover Is. has a LONG life,POWER TO THE SPORTFISHING!!!!
 
A repeat suggestion, framed in another way....

Could/should/would the guides, lodges and charter community get together and propose that DFO provide a public registry of halibut quota transfers to the recreational sector on their website? Who and how much?

I'm sure some would cry foul citing proprietary privacy concerns but I'm sure a clause waiving this could be added to the application process.

Just a thought.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top